Finishing options after cellulose sanding sealer and Yorkshire Grit

[David Dzubay]

Actually two questions.

As a new turner, I've turned a number of bowls from cherry, ash and elm. Thus far my finishing process has been using walnut oil, then Yorkshire Grit, then two coats of Tried and True Danish oil then two coats of T&T Original. Seems very nice (cherry live edge and darker elm in photo), but very flat, even a bit "furry" feeling....though that is exaggerating. Maybe its dust, as those have been sitting a while now!

For the latest bowl (lower right - elm I think, from a downed tree on my property), I tried Mylands Cellulose Sanding Sealer. Sanded to 400, used the sealer, burnished with steel wool, then did the Yorkshire Grit process, which adds some oil and wax to the piece and then gets buffed out. The piece looks really nice right now (light elm in photo), and it much smoother than a similar piece of elm using the previous process (the darker elm in picture).

My main question is, what to do now with the latest bowl? Am considering trying T&T Varnish. Or maybe just buff with the usual three compounds, adding more wax?

Second question would be, any suggestions for improvement to that first process? maybe using the sealer in there as well?

As a newbie, the zillion finishing options are pretty confusing! And so many opinions out there.

Thanks for any advice.

 

[Dean Center]

Is there some reason you're using multiple finish materials?

Your older system involves applying 4 different oils, 1 varnish, and 2 waxes. The newer system involves 1 soft lacquer, 1 non-hardening oil and 1 soft wax. The durability and protection from the newer system are likely to be slight. It might be OK for pieces that will be looked at and not handled.

Yes, there are many finish choices, but they can be simplified into 2 types: oil and film.
Walnut oil, tung oil, linseed/flax oil, etc would make up the oil category, possibly also including non-hardening mineral oil.
Film finishes would be shellac, lacquer, varnish, CA glue, epoxy.
If you consider wax to be a finish, that would make a third type, with soft/matte and hard/satiny choices.

To complicate matters, some finish products combine materials from both categories. Danish oil and many of the products mis-labeled "tung oil finish" would be in this group and contain both an oil and a film.

Ultimately, the choice of finish boils down to what the maker wants or likes. Matte, satin or shiny? Utility/handled or artistic/looked at? Some of us like ease and speed, some of us want exactly the right look. You get to decide what you want. If you let the group know what you want, I bet you get multiple recommendations on how to achieve it. All of them are likely to be simpler than your older system.

 

[Gerald Lawrence]

Dean has hit it right on . I will add as to my finishing I use a finish (oil, lacquer, and others; then buff and wax. That is all. Now as to the choice of what to use depends on the wood.
Cherry for me Watco
Oak tung oil does a good job if you are patient.
Walnut usually does better with Watco.
and the list goes on

 

[Michael Nathal]

Whether I use oil-only, varnish-only, or oil-varnish blends, I usually end with Beall buffing. This would get rid of the furry feeling you mentioned and add some shine. However, if I was making a utility piece, I would not buff, as the shine would soon disappear after washing. The furry feeling can also arise from bent-over grain during sanding. Many people reverse the lathe rotation with each grit, which eliminates most of this issue. I dampen the wood surface after 320 grit, and let dry, this raises the grain, making it feel fuzzy. More sanding at 320 or 400 grit removes the fuzzy surface. Finally I don't use Yorkshire grit so am not sure how this effects the various steps.

 

[David Dzubay]

Thanks for the responses! I'm probably making it more complicated than needed, as usual. Maybe I'll try my next cherry bowl with only the tried and true Danish and then original. Not really sure if they will be decorative or used (carefully).

Thanks for the sanding tips, Michael; I'll try those.

In the first process, I bought a kit of walnut oil and Yorkshire Grit and my understanding was to use the walnut oil as a kind of sanding sealer followed up by Yorkshire Grit and then whatever finish you want. But then, I just watched a video of a guy making a beautiful bowl with the finish including: coloring, danish oil "to make grain pop," 3 coasts cellulose sanding sealer, 8 coats spray lacquer, THEN Yorkshire Grit regular and then Yorkshire Grit fine. Phew! (So, I guess the grit can be used at different places in the process depending...)

I have the Beal system and in fact did use it on the furry bowls yesterday, and that worked well! (Had to use a drill buffer to get to some of the insides).

 

[Glenn Lefley]

Thanks for the responses! I'm probably making it more complicated than needed, as usual. Maybe I'll try my next cherry bowl with only the tried and true Danish and then original. Not really sure if they will be decorative or used (carefully).

Thanks for the sanding tips, Michael; I'll try those.

In the first process, I bought a kit of walnut oil and Yorkshire Grit and my understanding was to use the walnut oil as a kind of sanding sealer followed up by Yorkshire Grit and then whatever finish you want. But then, I just watched a video of a guy making a beautiful bowl with the finish including: coloring, danish oil "to make grain pop," 3 coasts cellulose sanding sealer, 8 coats spray lacquer, THEN Yorkshire Grit regular and then Yorkshire Grit fine. Phew! (So, I guess the grit can be used at different places in the process depending...)

I have the Beal system and in fact did use it on the furry bowls yesterday, and that worked well! (Had to use a drill buffer to get to some of the insides).

11 coats of sanding sealer and lacquer in total? Wow. What a waste of time,

 

[John Walls]

I sand mine to finish, if coating soon after, I hit with shellac. Let dry, hit with white scotchbrite (?) buffing pad, another coat, dry 30 minutes, hit one more time, dry 30 minutes, buff with white pad and done. Nice satin sheen.

 

[Karl Loeblein]

Is there some reason you're using multiple finish materials?

Your older system involves applying 4 different oils, 1 varnish, and 2 waxes. The newer system involves 1 soft lacquer, 1 non-hardening oil and 1 soft wax. The durability and protection from the newer system are likely to be slight. It might be OK for pieces that will be looked at and not handled.

Yes, there are many finish choices, but they can be simplified into 2 types: oil and film.
Walnut oil, tung oil, linseed/flax oil, etc would make up the oil category, possibly also including non-hardening mineral oil.
Film finishes would be shellac, lacquer, varnish, CA glue, epoxy.
If you consider wax to be a finish, that would make a third type, with soft/matte and hard/satiny choices.

To complicate matters, some finish products combine materials from both categories. Danish oil and many of the products mis-labeled "tung oil finish" would be in this group and contain both an oil and a film.

Ultimately, the choice of finish boils down to what the maker wants or likes. Matte, satin or shiny? Utility/handled or artistic/looked at? Some of us like ease and speed, some of us want exactly the right look. You get to decide what you want. If you let the group know what you want, I bet you get multiple recommendations on how to achieve it. All of them are likely to be simpler than your older system.

I would put wicking CA glue, like the Parsons 3408 CA glue that Mark Sillay demonstrates, in a different category than a film finish. Wicking grade CA glue is thin enough to be absorbed into the wood much like an oil Finish, but hardens like a film finish. Also, the 3408 is non-blooming CA so it doesn’t put off strong fumes like many other CA glues.

 

[Doug Freeman]

Just to confuse you more, film building finishes with a long open time (varnish, typically urethane of some sort these days) can be applied like oil (blo, watco, etc), ie flood on, keep wet ~10 min, wipe off, for a very similar look. Thin 1:1 with ms. Dries faster than the oil and is a harder finish, which buffs nicely. Not for utility bowls that will have utensils used in them. Walnut oil alone is good for that.