For the people that sell bowls at craft shows/ markets.

[Sam Fleisher]

Since my sister decided I needed to get in on her adventure (she does handmade cards at the local fall festival) I've been busy.

What's a realistic number I should have for inventory for a 4 day festival? In a perfect world I'd say 350 but I'm realistic and really don't think I'll sell very many but I don't want to have 25 and run out on day two. I've been trying to average one a day but like today I did five rough turned and didn't finish turn any. So tomorrow I'll try to knock out 3-4 finished to make up for the couple of days I haven't finished any.

For the sellers, do you have a set amount you try to make or batch out a bunch? How do you do it? This festival is the first two weekends in October and I'm starting to get nervous because I only have roughly thirty so far. I have plenty of rough turned dry bowls to work on, just need to set a goal. Goals seem to work better for me then making as many as possible and getting burned out.

 

[Brian Gustin]

There's a whole ton of factors - location, market venue, day of the month/week/year, proximity to holiday weekends or other events, type of event (leads to expected type of crowds, and thus, potential buyers) and even that is entirely unpredictable. If I had a formula to answer the question of what to bring and how much to bring and what to set prices at to nearly sell out by end of day, I'd be living on an island in the Caribbean...

You may end up surprised - I have gone to 2 day events and one day, I sold out of one type of item (spin tops) and the next day barely sold a single one, while almost selling out of another item type (small boxes) and I didn't expect to sell a lot of either one at the venue we went to.... I'd say don't focus too much on Quantity but try to bring as much variety in *some* quantity as possible. 4 day festival? dunno what to suggest, but my best 2-day festival (4500 visitors to the event.. yes we're a SMALL rural community area) I sold perhaps a dozen bowls in all (out of 35 or 40) but money-wise I did better for having had a wider variety of turnings.

 

[Sam Fleisher]

There's a whole ton of factors - location, market venue, day of the month/week/year, proximity to holiday weekends or other events, type of event (leads to expected type of crowds, and thus, potential buyers) and even that is entirely unpredictable. If I had a formula to answer the question of what to bring and how much to bring and what to set prices at to nearly sell out by end of day, I'd be living on an island in the Caribbean...

You may end up surprised - I have gone to 2 day events and one day, I sold out of one type of item (spin tops) and the next day barely sold a single one, while almost selling out of another item type (small boxes) and I didn't expect to sell a lot of either one at the venue we went to.... I'd say don't focus too much on Quantity but try to bring as much variety in *some* quantity as possible. 4 day festival? dunno what to suggest, but my best 2-day festival (4500 visitors to the event.. yes we're a SMALL rural community area) I sold perhaps a dozen bowls in all (out of 35 or 40) but money-wise I did better for having had a wider variety of turnings.

Hmmm, could have a problem! My variety is just different types of bowls. Natural edge, traditional, shallow, deep, small, medium, large, dark, light, shiny and not so shiny! Too late to switch gears now. lol

 

[hockenbery]

Each venue has a different market…..

One year we did the Navy Christmas show at the navel academy. We always did the Quiet waters arts festival.
Our friend who turned 20-30 different items made using kits did the same 2 shows that year.

sherry and I had hollow forms, platters, bowls, and hollow ball ornaments for $60. We thought we would sell out of the ornaments.
We made the booth fee and not much more. Sold 2 ornaments and a few pens. Our freind rarely had less than 3 people waiting in line to pay him.

A couple weeks later we had a great show. Sold 2 nice hollow forms to a lady in the first 10 minutes.
Sold all 30 ornaments, a dozen hollowforms, 10 bowls, 8 platters

Our friend said it was the worst show he had the few times we saw his booth he had no visitors.

My variety is just different types of bowls. Natural edge, traditional, shallow, deep, small, medium, large, dark, light, shiny and not so shiny!

. One thing we found was too much variety can confuse people and keep them out of the booth. We used to do pens, bottle stoppers, brushes, letter openers …. Thinking small items complimented the art pieces and be dependable sales. Then one year we decided not to. Our small items would be the hollow ball ornaments. We had more people and did better without the distraction of the small item clutter.

Another variable is how the customers view woodturning. -
Quiet Waters always had 3 wood turners. Our better years for sales were in years they had 5 or 6 woodturners.

A side benefit of arts shows is gallery owners invited us to put pieces in their galleries.

 

[Dan Stromberg]

One year we did the Navy Christmas show at the navel academy. We always did the Quiet waters arts festival.

Thanks for mentioning this... I live about 45 minutes south of Annapolis and have been to Quiet Waters plenty of times, but never knew they had an arts festival. Looking at the calendar it's also the same weekend as the Bethesda Row Arts festival? What genius planned that? Seems they would be marketing to the same audience!

 

[Dave Landers]

As others have said, it's all variable. Even the same market will be different one year to the next. So make some stuff you're proud of, price it fairly (be fair not only to yourself but also don't undercut other turners with similar wares), and have fun. Don't worry too much about quantity or etc, just go and see what happens - take what you learn and use it next time (or to decide 'never again!').

 

[Sam Fleisher]

As others have said, it's all variable. Even the same market will be different one year to the next. So make some stuff you're proud of, price it fairly (be fair not only to yourself but also don't undercut other turners with similar wares), and have fun. Don't worry too much about quantity or etc, just go and see what happens - take what you learn and use it next time (or to decide 'never again!').

This is called the Knox County Scenic Drive and there is more or less the same thing in Fulton county only called the Spoon River Scenic Drive.
It's a series of stops in several little small towns in both counties. And some stops set up at specific locations out in the country.

Thousands of idio errr people driving around looking and buying stuff. It used to mean more years ago when it was actually crafts now it's a lot of flea market junk from china at a lot of the stops. And people doing garage sales at their homes.

Place I will be is a stop out in the country that has been getting bigger every year. Sells pumpkins, petting zoo for the kids and several actual craft stands. He's even getting some reindeer for this year which sounds like a bad idea to me because it's rut season but he says they give them shots to keep that from happening. ( I can't see anything bad happening with drugged out reindeer can you?)

One wood worker I was told but not bowls. It's been a few years since I've done the scenic drive so I don't know if there are any other bowl turners somewhere else or not. That's why it's two weekends because it's pretty big and you can't cover everything in a day or even one weekend.

And as you said, I might very well fall into the never again category!

 

[Tom Gall]

Sam, as you can glean from the responses --- doing craft shows/art fairs is like a Crapshoot - or - like a box of chocolates ... you never know what you're going to get. As long as you aren't paying big bucks to participate don't worry about it too much. You can always adjust your inventory for next year. But, if you are paying big $$$$ ......

 

[Gerald Lawrence]

I do most of my sales at the AG Museum events that our club participates in . I track from event to event sales and annually items sold. It is amazing the changes you will see in the items sold. I sell over 900 tops a year and one or two other specialty items top my sales. just make a good supply and things will work out. As to what Al said about variety I had never thought of it as confusing but just added variety; have to think about that.

 

[Dean Center]

Our local senior center, where I learned to turn, has a Fall Festival and a few years, I donated turned items for them to sell. I had terrible results. The people attending were there for the garage sale/flea market sale and my products were too expensive at about $25-30 bucks. One guy made spoons with a power sander and sold the heck out of them, at $3.

A. How many people will come by?
B. If they're expecting flea markets, better bring little nut bowls or price your stuff way below what you think it's worth.
C. If they are coming from St. Louis or Chicago, they might buy more expensive stuff. If they're rural people, a buck is harder to come by for them and your prices may need to reflect it.
D. Getting customers to fondle the merchandise is key to making sales on utility/typical turned objects. If you're Binh Pho, not so much.
E. I could be totally wrong, as Al Hockenbery's story illustrates.

 

[Darryl Fective]

My only experience is with a local one day "art fair" at our library. I did it a couple years (pre-covid) and it really was a nice mix of artwork. Last year I went again, and it was smaller with more low priced knick-knack stuff than art. I'm almost all bowls/platters and felt sort of out of place. I had no display, just spread out work on a table. I did bring a tablecloth, but that was it. I wouldn't be surprised if my lowest priced piece was more than the highest priced items at a booth or 2. The first couple hours were very slow. Not a lot of lookers and those that did, passed thru quickly.

Sometime around lunch, there were more people and sort of a gathering in front of my table. I was answering questions and telling stories about the wood, my design or process, my shop, etc. They started selling. For a bit they were selling one right after another. It turned into being nearly as successful as earlier shows.

I guess I'm really not much help, but you can do well with just mostly bowls and you can't predict when or on what people will spend their money.

 

[Brian Gustin]

After today's farmer market I went to, I would add, it also pays to know the story behind the wood of any given item. I sold a nice walnut bowl at a decent price and the only selling point in this case was that I could tell the buyer where the wood came from (locally sourced from her hometown nearby, and she knew of the tree itself that had been in her childhood friend's backyard) - It was not even one of my better pieces of work, but the story behind it is what sold it... So it is always worthwhile to keep track of where your pieces originate from... it adds to the value of the item, often enough.

 

[Aaron Harris]

All interesting advice from the trenches. I'm trying to turn a bunch of work this summer in preparation for our high school's German Christmas Market in early December. This was my 1st show last year, and I almost sold out, and got hundreds in further orders to boot!) Maybe a couple of fall shows/farmer's markets if I have the time and inventory, who knows?. My thought lately has been to have a broad selection of bowls big and small (live edge, more basic and utilitarian, a few high-end showpieces) along with a bunch of other stuff: lidded boxes, potpourri pots, incense and tea-light burners, etc. I also thought I would turn a bunch of tops to put in a platter. Recently been turning jewelry from my exotic (read expensive) cut-offs (pendant and bracelet sets, etc.) One thought was that if I could attract the kids with the tops, they might drag their fashion-conscious soccer moms over for a look-see and maybe buy some other stuff. Who knows?

I also have a few orders to fill for when we return to school in a month or so, hoping I can get a few more sales in from word of mouth from that. I guess I'm slowly finding my niche. What I am ultimately going for is high-end "art" pieces like my friend and mentor Tim Tucker, whose work is just jaw-dropping. While I've made some pizza cutters and other more generic, lower-priced stuff, I hope to avoid catering to the "cheap" flea market crowds. One famous local farmer's market in nearby Landrum, SC caters to a lot of wealthy horse people up that way. I may take some of my nicer work up there one Saturday.

It's educational to hear everyone's different experiences and how hard it can be to predict. I'm basically just thinking out loud here. Thanks for all the tips!

 

[Tom Gall]

@Aaron Harris I think you have a pretty good handle on this. A varied selection of products with different price points. That way you're usually assured of selling enough stuff to at least cover expenses at a bad show. One thing I would avoid are items made from kits (i.e. pizza cutters) .... "Uncle so-and-so can make one of those for us". Make items with your personal touch - different from what another woodturner might make.

 

[Sam Fleisher]

Finally I have a simple question that everyone does in some way.

Where do you place the asking price of the bowl/object??

On a label affixed to the bottom so they have to pick it up? Not a piece of masking tape, I thought some of those non residue stickers.

Labels are placed on the inside so they don't pick it up but they can see the price?

On a card stuck in a holder in front of the bowl? (might blow away but be more elegant)

Grouped on a shelf all at one price?

No marked price. If they ask, assess the ability to pay and then name a price?

 

[hockenbery]

7

 

[hockenbery]

Where do you place the asking price of the bowl/object??

Two options that work nicely
A small printed card - brief description and price -can be folded as a tent
Small polished stones with price painted on.

 

[Dave Landers]

I put a little round sticker on the bottom, write the price with a fine point sharpie. There's no strategy about people picking it up or whatever - just is convenient and moves with the piece if the table is rearranged etc.
If I leave the stickers on too long (like, a year) they leave a spot that I have to buff off. And sometimes the sticker might soak up some excess oil from the piece. So I check and redo the stickers as needed before any show.
They're supposed to be "removable" but sometimes they stick a bit too well. One trick I saw somewhere was to lightly stick the sticker to your hand or thumb first, so it will come off more easily.
If I have a batch of all similar things (for me that's shot barrels or sometimes Christmas ornaments), those get a sign printed and stuck in one of those clear photo holders.

 

[Sam Fleisher]

7

??

What is the number of wonders in the world Alex for the win?

Or how many questions does a newbie ask in one post?

Or........

 

[robo hippy]

In the years that I did the arts/crafts shows, it seemed like every single show I did, it was some one's worst ever, and some one else's best show ever. One thing I read in one of the magazines, was that the most successful shows are around Christmas time and vacation time. The customers probably buy more stuff on vacation than at Christmas time, but that does seem to hold true. For me, I had shelfs full of bowls and plates of all sizes, and they are daily use items, nothing artistic. I also had some smaller boxes, threaded and friction fit. Some rolling pins never hurt. You just never know what will sell at any particular show. If you get lots of requests for some thing at a show, then come back the next year with lots of them, some times they sell, and some times they don't...... ARGH!!!! I had my stuff on wood shelves, and used the blue painter's tape (use scissors to cut, not tear...) to mark prices on with a Sharpie. People would still ask how much the piece would cost, even if you put dollar signs on them. Salt and pepper mills are another item that sells great some times, and not at all other times. A story behind the wood can make them more interesting.

robo hippy

 

[Tom Gall]

@Sam Fleisher - Small Avery labels (round or rectangular) with size depending on the item. Placed mostly on the bottom (bowls) - but depends on the item. If your items are waxed most labels are removed easily. I always removed the label for the customer when the item was sold. I always carried a can of paste wax (which removes any adhesive residue immediately) and a white cotton T-shirt for buffing off the wax and for a quick wiping down the piece for fingerprints, dust, etc. Still had an almost full can of wax after 24 years of shows.
Another thing to keep in mind - many woods will change color over time (ex: cherry, and some exotics) and you don't want a lighter color that is the shape of your label when it is removed. Best to place the label on an inconspicuous spot.

 

[Sam Fleisher]

All very good info from everybody! I feel like I'm throwing all the different ways to do stuff into a pot and cooking up a way for me to do things.

I don't carry cash much anymore like a lot of people. Do you guys have an app/system you use to accept debit/credit cards?

I know from experience that it's frustrating to go somewhere in this day and age and run into a business that won't take a debit or credit card. I feel that some people would buy a higher priced item if you didn't take all of their cash. Could be wrong though but if I had $40-$50 cash in my pocket I'd rather keep it there for smaller stuff, snacks etc. than spending it on a bowl and then having no cash for the rest of the day. Or $100 - $200 depending on socioeconomic status.

 

[hockenbery]

Do you guys have an app/system you use to accept debit/credit cards

There are business considerations.
1 Sales tax - check your local regulations. It is most likely you have to charge tax with the sale. You then have to pay that collected tax to the the taxing authority. Maybe quarterly to the state.

2 need a credit card reader. There are lots of credit card systems available. Most connect to your cell phone and verify the purchase when linked to your transaction company. May be provided by the merchant services company.

3 you need a merchant services company to handle the credit card transaction. They make deposits to your back account account. They also collect a transaction fee.

4. You need a way to provide a paper receipt.

 

[Sam Fleisher]

There are business considerations.
1 Sales tax - check your local regulations. It is most likely you have to charge tax with the sale. You then have to pay that collected tax to the the taxing authority. Maybe quarterly to the state.


2 need a credit card reader. There are lots of credit card systems available. Most connect to your cell phone and verify the purchase when linked to your transaction company

3 you need a company to handle the credit card transaction. They make deposits to your back account account. They also collect a transaction fee.

4. You need a way to provide a paper receipt.

hmm, paypal or zelle it is then.

 

[Aaron Harris]

All very good info from everybody! I feel like I'm throwing all the different ways to do stuff into a pot and cooking up a way for me to do things.

I don't carry cash much anymore like a lot of people. Do you guys have an app/system you use to accept debit/credit cards?

I know from experience that it's frustrating to go somewhere in this day and age and run into a business that won't take a debit or credit card. I feel that some people would buy a higher priced item if you didn't take all of their cash. Could be wrong though but if I had $40-$50 cash in my pocket I'd rather keep it there for smaller stuff, snacks etc. than spending it on a bowl and then having no cash for the rest of the day. Or $100 - $200 depending on socioeconomic status.

Sam-I thought of these contingencies before I did my 1st show last December, and I believe it really helped my sales that I provided several ways to pay. In addition to accepting cash, I already had PayPal from buying and selling on my ebay account. I also got a Square card reader, which many small businesses now use to swipe the transaction on the Square reader on your smartphone. As a lot of people also now use Venmo, I set that up too. I did (and still do) transactions on all of those platforms. I made a laminated sign with the logos, payment links and QR codes to make it easier for all of us. You definitely want to give folks buying options nowadays. Do a few transactions on each platform ahead of a show so that you know how to make it work and are not standing there dad-clicking like an idiot while your potential sale walks away shaking their head!

Another cool benefit is that if you want to buy some fancy (expensive) tool or turning-related must-have, you can quickly pay for it out of your now fat PayPal account on most platforms (I am bad to do this when money is otherwise tight).

 

[Gerald Lawrence]

I use Square and they will also give you a free website. I rarely get sales on the website but it gives you something to tell the customer who might be interested in something else in your shop. They give you signs and dongels to scan cards but you can purchase tap and go and other platforms . Exception is that some of the upscale readers need electricity, another cost in most venues. By the way there is a percentage for cards but to record cash sales is no charge.

 

[Doug Agee]

In my small side business, I offer these payment options:

• Cash
• Local check (but I would not in this situation)
• Venmo (the business version)
• Square (but I would include about 3% in the price)

 

[Dave Landers]

Do you guys have an app/system you use to accept debit/credit cards?

I use Square. I find it simple to deal with and they take all major credit cards and can add on sales tax for you. You get a thingy to attach to your phone/tablet to read the card. Note that you also need either wifi or cell service so it can do the card processing. I offer (via square) either email or txt receipts, but most folks skip it (or square already knows their card from other businesses and does it automatically).
The other thing I do is price everything in $5 increments and I pay their sales tax for cash purchases. It almost balances out with the credit card fee, but the bigger deal is I don't have to mess with a wad of ones or coins to make change.

 

[Steve Worcester]

There are Craft shows and there are ART shows, really different things with different price points.
But a lot of this is what that market is and how much people appreciate wood and wood artists, and what they are willing to pay for the product.
I did local (North Texas) shows for about 10 years, from churches to the juried fine art shows. My family used to say, don't talk to dad until he's made some sales.
Selling your product is an emotional validation of your work, but oddly not a validation of the quality as woodturners are 100% more critical of the work than the general public (in a Craft show). Art shows are different and Fine Art shows are a gallery in a tent.

If your state/city charges tax, get a resale permit and charge tax, getting caught is way more expensive than not paying. And you may want to set this whole venture up as a business or at least some level of tax deduction.
You can include the tax in the listed prices, but probably need to have a sign saying "prices include state/local sales tax".
Have a way to take credit cards, Paypal or Square are a cheap entry to this, get their card reader (for your convenience) and DO NOT charge extra for that, figure it into the price. In fact, it may be against some merchant agreements to charge extra for the card (as it may be to ask for ID) and worst case, you make 3% or so on every sale.
@hockenbery says, you need to provide a paper receipt, I will give that a maybe. Portable receipt printers can be expensive and most CC providers will provide an emailed receipt to the purchaser. In the event they must have a printed receipt, get a sales receipt book at the office supply store.
If you feel you can get into art/fine art shows, start thinking about the eye appeal of your work and then photographs of it. You will need photos of your work and probably the displays and the whole tent. Maybe that's another conversation to go there.

 

[robo hippy]

I am not positive, but it used to be 'illegal' to charge extra for the credit card sales, but you could offer a discount for cash. Only show I do any more is pretty much cash only. I like that, and I do have my prices n $5 increments.

robo hippy

 

[Rusty Nesmith]

Our club uses square.

 

[Tom De Winter]

@robo hippy That used to be a rule by the CC companies that as a merchant you agreed to abide by.. One could lose their account if caught doing so.

Now post Covid it is a very common practice in bars and restaurants. Apparently the CC companies have changed their rules.

 

[robo hippy]

Thanks for clarifying that Tom. My guess is that with rising rates, they were 'forced' to. My travel agent only takes checks now. She got upset over the rising rates.

robo hippy

 

[Doug Agee]

Take a look at surcharges and convenience fees for credit cards. Lots of businesses are tired of paying the credit card fees.

 

[Brian Gustin]

Take a look at surcharges and convenience fees for credit cards. Lots of businesses are tired of paying the credit card fees.

Yup. at one time I was paying over $165 a month in merchant account fees & minimums just to be able to process credit cards.. whether I sold anything by Credit Card or not.. Back then your volume would lower your rates , so many merchants would strongly encourage using plastic.. Then de-regulation hit and I think it was some sort of legal settlement somewhere that credit card companies (MC/Visa/Amex/Discover) could no longer make it (via merchant contracts) so that merchants could not charge extra fees to cover their credit card fees (Nothing however restricted you from having minimum purchase for CC processing or jacking up your regular price a bit and then offering cash discount) ...

Anyhoo, when Square came along, I dropped the merchant account like a hot potato (Though I had to wait 'til 30 days before my contract was up or I'd have to pay $600 plus in early termination fees) It is also why I quit selling on Ebay,Amazon,Etsy - After they got done with all their little "nickel and dime" fees and charges, They were making more money off my sales than I was.... Only place I might still sell online would have to be us.ebid.net... if and when I ever get the ambition to try online sales again.

 

[Chris Lawrence]

I take a variety of items to craft shows and a different variety to art shows. For me at craft shows things under $50 sell well. At art shows people are more willing to part with there money so I put out more of my artsy pieces. Some of my lower priced items have tags of some sort on them. Removable stickers on bottoms or tags on strings. The more expensive items the prices are stored in my head. It gives me an indication of how interested someone is. If they say they want to buy it I pretty much know its sold. If they ask me how much I know they probably are not going to buy it. For payments I take cash and credit cards through Square. Square adds my local sales tax automatically to credit card transactions. Cash sales get a discount because I don't want to deal with coins so I pay the sales tax on the cash sales.

 

[Sam Fleisher]

A little further along in my progress for displaying candy dishes at the scenic drive.

It's not finished, the two middle shelves, the boards underneath them need to be shortened. They are just sitting there so I can see how it looks.

The whole thing is held together with carriage bolts so it can be taken apart and laid flat in the back of my truck. Each of the 8 shelves are 2 foot x 3 foot.

 

[Gerald Lawrence]

We use several displays. The A frame holds a lot and then there is the converted foldable book case and last there are the knock down tabletop displays.

 

[Sam Fleisher]

I wish I'd seen the a-frame before I built mine.. Would have designed it a little different. Oh well.

 

[Sam Fleisher]

YAY! Sold my first bowl tonight.......Does that mean I can retire and live off the interest?? LOL YA RIGHT!

Sadly it doesn't even cover the set of jaws I ordered the other day..... baby steps though. It will cover half of the set of jaws I'll order tomorrow! LOL Isn't this how it works? Your hobby is supposed to fund itself in a perfect world? I think I'll be feeling a deficit till the day I die though