Got 'er going! New gouge ?

[John Walls]

Got the PM 3520C up and going today, woohoo!! I ran new wiring to a box beside the lathe and also ran a 115v outlet for lights, etc. I wired up as I was taught/old phart experience, when done, I'm glad I did not hit the breaker and fire up the lathe. Something just did not look right. Color of wires ran from switch to controller just did not jive. If I had wired it the way they had it, I would have seen sparks... LOL, must have been manufactured out of the USA. I was taught that white is always neutral. Well, that's not how they did it. A quick change and it is back to normal, somewhat... LOL Fired 'er up, man, is she quiet and smooth!

I could not wait, had to turn-turn-turn baby! I have some limbs from a Maple that fell last fall, figured 6 months sitting outside they might be somewhat dry, wrong... hehehe the closer I got to the center (pith), the more sap ran out. Towards the end, or center, it was like squeezing on a sponge. Ok, enough fun with that piece, into the can that very round spindle, or large dowel rod went. I noticed the more I turned, the duller the gouge got. I figure either the bark had some sand in it, or turning a green limb dulls quickly. Now to have fun.

My question is, should I go ahead and do a finger-nail grind on the gouge then sharpen on the T-8? I do have a high speed 8" dry grinder. I watched a video on the procedure, should not be a problem for me. The guy said to put a 25 to 35 degree angle on it, he ended with a 29 degree grind doing it free hand, what would be the recommended angle? The Book with the T-8 says for a pro turner, 30 degrees, all others 45 but I think they are referring to the factory shape, not one that has been re-ground to the fingernail. I'm open to suggestions, re-shaping/grinding on a gouge does not intimidate me so what say ya'll?

 

[hockenbery]

In most cases green wood does not dull tool as quickly as dry wood

dirt will dull all the cutting tools - chainsaw, bandsaw, turning tools

One green wood issue - sap and resin will build up on the bevel increasing the bevel drag easiest way to get grid of it is to sharpen.

I suggest you start out with a 40-45 degree bevel on your spindles gouge.
It is a lot more forgiving if you get off the bevel a bit.

as you get more comfortable you can change the bevel to 35-40 and later on to 30

I like 30 degrees on my spindle gouges but I have done a lot of practicing.

 

[Greg Norman]

The 3520 is 220v and does not use a neutral. The 3 wire cord has a black, white, and green wire. Both the black and white wires are hot or current carrying and the green is the ground on most any 220v machines. A neutral in a 120-220v system is supposed to be phased (color coded) as white but that does NOT mean all white wires are a neutral. If it’s a 277-480v system the neutral will be gray. Many homes have white wires carrying current since phasing isn’t always done correctly and inspections aren’t very thorough. On machinery using rubber cord phasing isn’t normally done correctly or at all by the factory and colors don’t usually mean what they should.

 

[John Walls]

The 3520 is 220v and does not use a neutral. The 3 wire cord has a black, white, and green wire. Both the black and white wires are hot or current carrying and the green is the ground on most any 220v machines.

Thanks for the info, I've not done much 220. I originally wired it in my breaker box to what I was used to, white to ground, green and black to hot. After seeing how the lathe was wired, I changed my box, green to ground, black and white to hot. I fell on old habits from electronics I worked a couple decades back, calling ground neutral. Sux to get old/slowly loose my memory. I think what confused me was the 20 amp 12/3 wire from the store. It is red/black/white, no green.

 

[Greg Norman]

Thanks for the info, I've not done much 220. I originally wired it in my breaker box to what I was used to, white to ground, green and black to hot. After seeing how the lathe was wired, I changed my box, green to ground, black and white to hot. I fell on old habits from electronics I worked a couple decades back, calling ground neutral. Sux to get old/slowly loose my memory. I think what confused me was the 20 amp 12/3 wire from the store. It is red/black/white, no green.

hahaha, I know what you mean John. Some days I can’t remember what I ate for breakfast, did I actually eat breakfast? I’m still fat so I guess I did lol. It would be very helpful if everyone did electrical the exact same, as the code mandates, but sadly many just ignore it. I hope you enjoy your new 3520 as much as I’ve enjoyed mine. I’ve had it for 11 months and fall deeper in love with it every time I turn it on.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Kind of difficult to "do electrical the exact same way" when they make 1000's of changes in the code every code cycle these days. Most of the manufacturers are now sitting on the NEC code boards adopting all of the latest equipment and materials into the new codes as fast as they are able. The last code update added about $2500 to the cost of an average house.

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

In most cases green wood does not dull tool as quickly as dry wood

dirt will dull all the cutting tools - chainsaw, bandsaw, turning tools

One green wood issue - sap and resin will build up on the bevel increasing the bevel drag easiest way to get grid of it is to sharpen.

I suggest you start out with a 40-45 degree bevel on your spindles gouge.
It is a lot more forgiving if you get off the bevel a bit.

as you get more comfortable you can change the bevel to 35-40 and later on to 30

I like 30 degrees on my spindle gouges but I have done a lot of practicing.

I keep 3M pads next to my grinder, the ones from the welding stores, I clean the tools before sharpening, I hate it if the sap gets on my CBN wheels.

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

Got the PM 3520C up and going today, woohoo!! I ran new wiring to a box beside the lathe and also ran a 115v outlet for lights, etc. I wired up as I was taught/old phart experience, when done, I'm glad I did not hit the breaker and fire up the lathe. Something just did not look right. Color of wires ran from switch to controller just did not jive. If I had wired it the way they had it, I would have seen sparks... LOL, must have been manufactured out of the USA. I was taught that white is always neutral. Well, that's not how they did it. A quick change and it is back to normal, somewhat... LOL Fired 'er up, man, is she quiet and smooth!

I could not wait, had to turn-turn-turn baby! I have some limbs from a Maple that fell last fall, figured 6 months sitting outside they might be somewhat dry, wrong... hehehe the closer I got to the center (pith), the more sap ran out. Towards the end, or center, it was like squeezing on a sponge. Ok, enough fun with that piece, into the can that very round spindle, or large dowel rod went. I noticed the more I turned, the duller the gouge got. I figure either the bark had some sand in it, or turning a green limb dulls quickly. Now to have fun.

My question is, should I go ahead and do a finger-nail grind on the gouge then sharpen on the T-8? I do have a high speed 8" dry grinder. I watched a video on the procedure, should not be a problem for me. The guy said to put a 25 to 35 degree angle on it, he ended with a 29 degree grind doing it free hand, what would be the recommended angle? The Book with the T-8 says for a pro turner, 30 degrees, all others 45 but I think they are referring to the factory shape, not one that has been re-ground to the fingernail. I'm open to suggestions, re-shaping/grinding on a gouge does not intimidate me so what say ya'll?

I love your enthusiasm! Congratulations, make lots of shavings! After 24 plus years I still feel like a kid in the candy store every time I go in my shop, well, except the days I'm only doing finishing, LOL. Aloha

 

[Greg Norman]

Kind of difficult to "do electrical the exact same way" when they make 1000's of changes in the code every code cycle these days. Most of the manufacturers are now sitting on the NEC code boards adopting all of the latest equipment and materials into the new codes as fast as they are able. The last code update added about $2500 to the cost of an average house.

I was referring to workmanship. When was there 1000’s of changes to the code in a single cycle?

 

[Mike Johnson]

Greg,

Two code cycles ago there were close to 10,000 individual changes to the NEC code. They were trying to standardize on terms and descriptions while also shooting towards an international standard that would apply in other countries. Once you change a word or term you end up having to change it in all the other references in the other articles of the code.
Prior codes were poorly written with loose terms, the current code is written so it will stand up in a court of law as all industries are at the mercy of litigation when "stuff" happens.

 

[Bill Boehme]

Many homes have white wires carrying current since phasing isn’t always done correctly and inspections aren’t very thorough.

Correction to your statement ... white IS a current carrying conductor in home wiring since it is primarily 120 volt single phase. You are correct that 240 volt fixed appliances don't use the neutral unless there is also 120 volts needed which is typically the case for ovens, ranges, dryers, and HVAC systems.

 

[Bill Boehme]

I've not done much 220. I originally wired it in my breaker box to what I was used to, white to ground, green and black to hot.

What you did was to create an electrocution hazard. Black is hot, white is neutral (not ground) and green is earth safety ground (ground rod) which is connected to the metal frame of machines ... not to any actual circuits. Neutral and ground are tied together only at the service entrance, but not at any feeder panels.

It sounds like you are confusing building wiring code with NEMA standards for electronic equipment where common is typically black. Green is usually case or frame that serves as a safety shield around live circuits.

 

[John Walls]

What you did was to create an electrocution hazard. Black is hot, white is neutral (not ground) and green is earth safety ground (ground rod) which is connected to the metal frame of machines ... not to any actual circuits. Neutral and ground are tied together only at the service entrance, but not at any feeder panels..

Hmmm, ok what did I do? 220v, I have it wired as green is ground (like the machine is wired from the factory), L1 Black and L2 White (2 hot wires). This is how the wiring is done on the lathe so I just wired it the way they had it to the fuse box. My shop fuse box, done by a certified electrician, is wired black and red is hot, white is ground.
The way you say is how I see 120v wired.
IF needed, I can have a certified electrician come by and verify my wiring. So far my lathe is running good, not smoking.

 

[Timothy Allen]

John, you're good. If you wanted, you could take some red electrical tape and wrap a little bit of your white wire at your fuse box, and at your lathe connection, just so any future person who works on this wiring doesn't get confused and decide to treat the white wire as a neutral without testing it first to confirm!

 

[Greg Norman]

Correction to your statement ... white IS a current carrying conductor in home wiring since it is primarily 120 volt single phase. You are correct that 240 volt fixed appliances don't use the neutral unless there is also 120 volts needed which is typically the case for ovens, ranges, dryers, and HVAC systems.

Yes you are correct, I stated that incorrectly. I meant that some white conductors are actually hot wires and not neutrals. But I didn’t type what I was thinking, guess I should refrain from posting when I’m half asleep.

 

[Mike Adams]

John, you're good. If you wanted, you could take some red electrical tape and wrap a little bit of your white wire at your fuse box, and at your lathe connection, just so any future person who works on this wiring doesn't get confused and decide to treat the white wire as a neutral without testing it first to confirm!

The most accepted tape marking for that purpose is a strip or three of black electrical tape wrapped around the end of a White conductor to indicate that it's now a hot lead and not a neutral.

 

[Mike Johnson]

You can also apply colored heat shrink tube to a conductor to provide a permanent color marking in the junction box.

 

[Bill Boehme]

Thanks for the info, I've not done much 220. I originally wired it in my breaker box to what I was used to, white to ground, green and black to hot. After seeing how the lathe was wired, I changed my box, green to ground, black and white to hot. I fell on old habits from electronics I worked a couple decades back, calling ground neutral. Sux to get old/slowly loose my memory. I think what confused me was the 20 amp 12/3 wire from the store. It is red/black/white, no green.

Hmmm, ok what did I do? 220v, I have it wired as green is ground (like the machine is wired from the factory), L1 Black and L2 White (2 hot wires). This is how the wiring is done on the lathe so I just wired it the way they had it to the fuse box. My shop fuse box, done by a certified electrician, is wired black and red is hot, white is ground.
The way you say is how I see 120v wired.
IF needed, I can have a certified electrician come by and verify my wiring. So far my lathe is running good, not smoking.

I missed the part where you corrected your wiring error. I suppose that I got alarmed that you had green connected to a hot leg. It sounds like you have it hooked up correctly now. The last time that I checked (which was a very long time ago) I believe that the code required marking both ends of the white preferably with red, but definitely not black because that could cause future confusion that the two black wires are the same phase. There is special tape for marking wires as well as paint.

 

[Mike Adams]

I missed the part where you corrected your wiring error. I suppose that I got alarmed that you had green connected to a hot leg. It sounds like you have it hooked up correctly now. The last time that I checked (which was a very long time ago) I believe that the code required marking both ends of the white preferably with red, but definitely not black because that could cause future confusion that the two black wires are the same phase. There is special tape for marking wires as well as paint.

Most electricians will add a couple of bands of black electrical tape to the white conductor when it's used as a hot leg. NEC states any color except white, grey, or green can be used. But black tape is cheaper than other colors (at least for the decent tapes) so it's used most often. MikeHolt.com is a good place to find answers to electrical questions.

 

[John Walls]

Thanks for all the info! I am going to town today, will try to find some heat shrink tubing and *change* the (lathe-end) wire colors in the box so I don't forget in a couple years and light myself up. I don't think I will do anymore 220v wiring, too confusing to this old phart. I do need to finish wiring my shop with 120v, that's easy for me. Are ceiling mounted air cleaners 120 or 220v? I'm thinking of the Powermatic model, but I will read up on all of them before my purchase. If It's 220v, I will have an electrician wire it and check all my wiring at the same time. The breaker box in my shop is only a 125, I also need to make sure I don't over-load it.

 

[Bill Boehme]

Marking paint is the fastest and most convenient, but it is impractical because of cost if you aren't using it every day. Marking tape is cheap, but sometimes difficult to wrap wires in confined spaces. If you are marking white wires then a colored Sharpie works well unless the insulation is kapton.

 

[Mike Adams]

Marking paint is the fastest and most convenient, but it is impractical because of cost if you aren't using it every day. Marking tape is cheap, but sometimes difficult to wrap wires in confined spaces. If you are marking white wires then a colored Sharpie works well unless the insulation is kapton.

I do the wraps before actually connecting the conductors. It's easier with the conductor sticking out of the j-box.