gouges, scrapers, etc.

[Glenn Phipps]

What is your favorite bowl gouge or tool used and how long is the handle? Also do you fashion your own handles?

 

[Tom Albrecht]

Glenn, it sounds like you need to find a local turning group and get connected with some folks who can show you what they've got.

 

[Glenn Phipps]

Seems like a simple enough question to me.

 

[R Henrickson]

Seems like a simple enough question to me.

The three or four turners I have worked with longest would all give you a different answer. I have taught a couple classes a year for 6 years with one of them. We let students use our tools. Our preferred bowl gouges differ in manufacturer, shaft diameter, flute profile, handle type and length. And the grind we each use.

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

My favorite bowl gouge is a Doug Thompson's deep V 5/8 bowl gouge. I have a few with a 40/40 grind and a few with the "Thompson Grind" I make my own handles but I also like Doug's handles, the longer the better, and I have several Stuart Batty handles, my longest is a 42 inches long.

 

[Sandy Jarrell]

What is your favorite bowl gouge or tool used and how long is the handle? Also do you fashion your own handles?

Depends on what I'm turning - large bowl, small bowl, shallow, deep, etc. I'm not sold on U shaped gouges. Size goes from 3/4" to 1/4". Handle length on most is around 14" - 18". Some tools came handled and some I had to make handles for. Seems like a simple question but when you begin to think about it ... too many variables.

 

[Russ Braun]

I just got the same gouge as Emiliano’s, it’s pretty nice! I do like the 18” handles but get annoyed with the sharp point in my tail stock. It often lets me know it’s back there!

 

[hockenbery]

What is your favorite bowl gouge or tool used and how long is the handle? Also do you fashion your own handles?

I use the Ellsworth grind mostly (have a small gouge with Michelson grind and a 1/2” thompson v (5/8 D) with a 40 degree)

My preferred bowl gouge is the 1/2” jaimison gouge (5/8 diameter bar) made by Thompson.
I make wooden handles 18-20” long. Diameter that feels comfortable.

The length - I rest the end of the handle against the top front of my thigh when roughing about over the pocket or just below.
Your height, lathe height might be different from mine.
Your turning style could be different too.

Bowls Cove Ruffing cut -

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIHADKjfL2c

 

[odie]

What is your favorite bowl gouge or tool used and how long is the handle? Also do you fashion your own handles?

Glenn.....until you get some stick time at the lathe, just get a standard plain Jane M2 gouge from one of the major sellers. Practice with different grinds and when the time comes, YOU will know what you like. More than anything else, trust your own senses. Don't forget to try the very old and neglected traditional grind, as well as all the more modern swept back grinds.

Don't let someone else be your guide.....you be your own guide to where you go with lathe turning.

If you need a suggestion......I'd go with Sorby.

There are no silver bullets, or magic.......time in the saddle is the only thing that matters.

Some turners become professional students.....because there is just too much saturation of information out there. This is why it's important to take the initiative, get some basic information, and run with it......time in the saddle......no substitute for it.

Yes, I sometimes fashion my own handles, but any of the supplied wooden handles are very usable. Personally, I don't like the very long handles, and sometimes cut some off the end......but, this is my personal preference, and not necessarily a suggestion.

-----odie-----

 

[R Henrickson]

Glenn.....until you get some stick time at the lathe, just get a standard plain Jane M2 gouge from one of the major sellers. Practice with different grinds and when the time comes, YOU will know what you like.
Don't let someone else be your guide.....you be your own guide to where you go with lathe turning.
There are no silver bullets, or magic.......time in the saddle is the only thing that matters.
Yes, I sometimes fashion my own handles, but any of the supplied wooden handles are very usable. Personally, I don't like the very long handles, and sometimes cut some off the end......but, this is my personal preference, and not necessarily a suggestion.

-----odie-----

Some good advice. Choice of tools (and grinds and handles) comes down to what *you* want to make and your approach. Do get some guidance on the basics of sharpening -- you will have to find what works for what you do.

Supplied wooden handles often may be a bit long, but that is probably a greater problem with spindle than bowl gouges. I have made some of my own handles for specific uses. Ultimately having no supplied handle means that you can more easily adapt the tool to HOW you use it and WHAT you want to make.

 

[robo hippy]

For scrapers, my go to is a Big Ugly tool, and yes there is a video I did about it. Also check out 'Scary Scrapers'. For gouges, I prefer the Thompson or D Way 5/8 inch gouges. I think most of my handles are in the 14 to 16 inch lengths, and I make my own. I prefer a straight cylinder, it just feels better in my hands, and I have at least one video on that. I do not like the weighted handles. Just too much weight to push around if I am doing a long day of turning, which I still do from time to time. I don't use a swept back gouge at all any more since switching to the 40/40 grind and a BOB (bottom of bowl) gouge for the insides of my bowls. Stuart Batty uses really long handles, way too long for the way I turn. He turns bowls on a long bed lathe, I use the sliding headstock, and now have one lathe that pivots. With the long bed lathes, you have to hold your arms out farther away from your body or bend over, which is not good for the back. Short bed lathe, and you stand up straight, keep your arms in close to your body, and I keep the tool handle under my forearm. I haven't had a parabolic fluted gouge in quite a long while. I should add at least one to my arsenal, just out of curiosity....

robo hippy

 

[Glenn Phipps]

My favorite bowl gouge is a Doug Thompson's deep V 5/8 bowl gouge. I have a few with a 40/40 grind and a few with the "Thompson Grind" I make my own handles but I also like Doug's handles, the longer the better, and I have several Stuart Batty handles, my longest is a 42 inches long.

I understand there are as many varieties of gouges as there are stars in the night sky from individual to individual. Thank you that was a direct answer to my question

Glenn.....until you get some stick time at the lathe, just get a standard plain Jane M2 gouge from one of the major sellers. Practice with different grinds and when the time comes, YOU will know what you like. More than anything else, trust your own senses. Don't forget to try the very old and neglected traditional grind, as well as all the more modern swept back grinds.

Don't let someone else be your guide.....you be your own guide to where you go with lathe turning.

If you need a suggestion......I'd go with Sorby.

There are no silver bullets, or magic.......time in the saddle is the only thing that matters.

Some turners become professional students.....because there is just too much saturation of information out there. This is why it's important to take the initiative, get some basic information, and run with it......time in the saddle......no substitute for it.

Yes, I sometimes fashion my own handles, but any of the supplied wooden handles are very usable. Personally, I don't like the very long handles, and sometimes cut some off the end......but, this is my personal preference, and not necessarily a suggestion.

-----odie-----

Odie, I appreciate your comments. I am a multi media artist, have been all my life, I have worked with wood in all manner of building, construction, art you name it. I'm always pushing the boundaries if there are any. I do have time at the lathe with a number of different sticks as you call them, years ago and a rekindled desire now at age, with time, to turn bowls. One thing I discovered very shortly after receiving this Grizzly lathe it is nothing like what they advertise, falls woefully short and I am replacing it. I was just looking for general input from others on length of chisels they use. Thanks. The more I learn on a topic only reinforces how little I know .

 

[Glenn Phipps]

For scrapers, my go to is a Big Ugly tool, and yes there is a video I did about it. Also check out 'Scary Scrapers'. For gouges, I prefer the Thompson or D Way 5/8 inch gouges. I think most of my handles are in the 14 to 16 inch lengths, and I make my own. I prefer a straight cylinder, it just feels better in my hands, and I have at least one video on that. I do not like the weighted handles. Just too much weight to push around if I am doing a long day of turning, which I still do from time to time. I don't use a swept back gouge at all any more since switching to the 40/40 grind and a BOB (bottom of bowl) gouge for the insides of my bowls. Stuart Batty uses really long handles, way too long for the way I turn. He turns bowls on a long bed lathe, I use the sliding headstock, and now have one lathe that pivots. With the long bed lathes, you have to hold your arms out farther away from your body or bend over, which is not good for the back. Short bed lathe, and you stand up straight, keep your arms in close to your body, and I keep the tool handle under my forearm. I haven't had a parabolic fluted gouge in quite a long while. I should add at least one to my arsenal, just out of curiosity....

robo hippy

Thanks for your input. I have some experience and curious what others use.

 

[Glenn Phipps]

I use the Ellsworth grind mostly (have a small gouge with Michelson grind and a 1/2” thompson v (5/8 D) with a 40 degree)

My preferred bowl gouge is the 1/2” jaimison gouge (5/8 diameter bar) made by Thompson.
I make wooden handles 18-20” long. Diameter that feels comfortable.

The length - I rest the end of the handle against the top front of my thigh when roughing about over the pocket or just below.
Your height, lathe height might be different from mine.
Your turning style could be different too.

Bowls Cove Ruffing cut -

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIHADKjfL2c

thanks

 

[Doug Freeman]

I use a 5/8” shaft bg most of the time, Thompson -Jamieson V10 or Crown Razor M42. Make my own handles for them, 16-17” long, using a Cindy Drozda set screw tool insert, so I can sharpen w/o the handle swinging around.

Handle length on gouges is about getting the end in a comfortable spot on your body with the back hand, and not leverage - proper tool edge orientation removes the need for leverage with bg’s.

I use 3/8” shaft bg’s some and the std handle works fine - use them for detail cuts and light finish cuts.

Scrapers - only use them for smoothing up surfaces, mainly nrs’s, std handles are fine for me. @robo hippy uses them for roughing and heavy cuts and probably has the best info for that type of use.

I do some hand hollowing, which is scraping, and requires leverage. Currently use 25” handles that are not too long, go to 5-6” depth off tool rest. You Need longer handles for more reach.

 

[Mark Jundanian]

I prefer handle less tools as they are much less cumbersome at the grinder. Also it is easier to store a few handles. And you can easily change the tool handle length.

For gouges I bought the double ended tools from Oneway. This has allowed me to explore different grinds.

I use Trent Bosch handles as these have a pocket deep enough for the double ended tools and I prefer their light weight.

 

[John Walls]

I use mostly Sorby gouges, 3/4 and 3/8 get used the most. Standard handles they come with. I've started making my own handles, 14-16 inches on scrapers. After using a couple Sorby scrapers, I made 2 out of tool steel and use those mostly with 14 inch handles. Picked up some beading tools, made my own handles 8 to 10 inches. I made a 14" handle for a 1 1/4" skew, handle looks nice but not getting to be a fan of the skew.

 

[Rusty Nesmith]

I have a 5/8“ Sorby and 1/2” Thompson that I like about the same. I like the Sorby better for rough turning and the Thompson better for finish turning. I am looking to buy a 3/4” Thompson next. All of my handles are 20” and made from shovel handles.

 

[odie]

You have to ask what are the reasons for a bigger/longer gouge......and the answers to that are:

Heft/weight, stability
Can extend further from the tool rest without sacrificing control.
Has longer cutting edge, so bigger cut possible.
Longer handles give better leverage.

These things require more motor HP, in order to take full advantage of them.

These things are considerations for the roughing stages of turning, but can be a hinderance when delicate, very finely executed finish cuts are being made.

Long handles can be problematic when doing interiors of bowls during those times when you want to dip the handle down. Bedways will get in the way. (less of a consideration for sliding/pivoting headstocks)

Bigger/longer gouges are useful for about 10% of the work overall. Good to have, but the real effort is in the finishing cuts that follow.

-----odie-----

 

[Doug Freeman]

Bigger/longer gouges are useful for about 10% of the work overall. Good to have, but the real effort is in the finishing cuts that follow.

Perhaps you meant the inverse. Starting with a 1/2 log or blank, 90% of the cutting work will be done with a big, long tool. That last 10% is the detail work.

 

[odie]

Perhaps you meant the inverse. Starting with a 1/2 log or blank, 90% of the cutting work will be done with a big, long tool. That last 10% is the detail work.

Yes, I can see that, Doug......

For me, about 90% of the time and work involved, is what comes after removing a large volume of wood at the roughing stage.....but your point is well taken.

The time element and overall effort is one thing, as is the amount of wood removed, another.....and your point makes that clarification necessary.

-----odie-----

 

[Kirk Amidon]

We often say at work that the first 90% of the work takes 90% of the time, but the last 10% of work takes the other 90% of time. (Usually around a project that takes a lot longer than originally scoped)

Perhaps that explains the Doug and Odie comments?

 

[Doug Freeman]

The interpreted the thread to be about tool cutting wood time, not the total time taken to do a bowl or part of it. 90% of my cutting will be with large tools, 10% with detail tools. Details may well take more total time than getting to the point of adding them.

I suspect Odie takes a lot of time to prepare for and plan his detail cuts, but I dont think the detail tool cutting wood time is 90%. But, if he takes slow, thin finish cuts, then puts in the details, it could be more than 10%. Not exact %’s just educated swags.

 

[Gabriel Hoff]

My favorite gouge is my Carter and Son 1/2 inch bowl gouge. It has a 50 degree fingernail grind and can do about 90% of my rough and finish turning for either green or dry wood. It has a 16 inch aluminum handle which I really like because it's heavy and feels solid. The M42 steel is also a added bonus! I also have the same gouge in a parabolic flute for finishing cuts on dry wood. The only disadvantage is the handle gets really cold, especially in up here in Ohio.

 

[odie]

I suspect Odie takes a lot of time to prepare for and plan his detail cuts, but I dont think the detail tool cutting wood time is 90%. But, if he takes slow, thin finish cuts, then puts in the details, it could be more than 10%. Not exact %’s just educated swags.

Hi Doug......

The only way to know for sure, is to walk a mile in my shoes!

I suspect 99% of other turners rely on power sanding, and will always rely on power sanding. Because of that, they will never find out exactly what I'm talking about. Yes, as I said, I do spend that much time working on the final carefully executed tool steps for prepping a final tooled surface.....a surface needing a bare minimum of fine hand sanding. For me, time consuming, or not....it's worth every bit of the extra effort to accomplish it. Without it, getting the fine turned details is just not possible.

-----odie-----

 

[hughie]

Also for me 5/8 Thompson Gouge, in fact I have two with a variation in the grinds. These two are my 'go to' and have half dozen other various makes U and V . As to scrapers I make my own out of HSS cold saw blades so not much I can add there. Handles 18-24" I make my own specific to what I do and the lathe I turn on. It is a short bed type around 30" bed.

 

[Glenn Phipps]

Hi Doug......

The only way to know for sure, is to walk a mile in my shoes!

I suspect 99% of other turners rely on power sanding, and will always rely on power sanding. Because of that, they will never find out exactly what I'm talking about. Yes, as I said, I do spend that much time working on the final carefully executed tool steps for prepping a final tooled surface.....a surface needing a bare minimum of fine hand sanding. For me, time consuming, or not....it's worth every bit of the extra effort to accomplish it. Without it, getting the fine turned details is just not possible.

-----odie-----

I've not seen your work in person but from what I've gleaned from photos, the time taken by you finishing is evident in the quality of your turnings.

 

[Glenn Phipps]

Glenn, it sounds like you need to find a local turning group and get connected with some folks who can show you what they've got.

The closest turning group would be over $100 away with todays fuel prices.

 

[robo hippy]

Glenn, check with the club anyway. They may have some one living close to you. Play dates in some ones shop is always fun.

I did buy one of Odie's pieces, just to have one in my collection. It is pretty remarkable. I think he should do a video of his processes, just so I can see what he does differently. You can't explain it, it has to be seen.

robo hippy

 

[William Rogers]

For Bowl gouges I have Carter & Son, D-way and Thompson, 3/8” through 5/8”. It would be hard to give either of these the edge. Spindle gouges I have Crown and Carter & Son. Scrapers are Thompson. I make my own handles. I make an aluminum insert and I fill the handles with lead shot. Sizes range from 12” to 18” depending on the tool size. I do have a few Thompson handles.

Two of these handles I made square like the Thompson handles. All were filled with lead shot. I sand to 180 and I do not put any finish on the wood.

 

[Pat Patterson]

For Bowl gouges I have Carter & Son, D-way and Thompson, 3/8” through 5/8”. It would be hard to give either of these the edge. Spindle gouges I have Crown and Carter & Son. Scrapers are Thompson. I make my own handles. I make an aluminum insert and I fill the handles with lead shot. Sizes range from 12” to 18” depending on the tool size. I do have a few Thompson handles.

Two of these handles I made square like the Thompson handles. All were filled with lead shot. I sand to 180 and I do not put any finish on the wood.
View attachment 46003

Very nice what are the silver tool holders?

 

[Bill Boehme]

The closest turning group would be over $100 away with todays fuel prices.

I’m a member of the Woodturners of North Texas club which is about 72 miles from your location. We have several club members who drive further than that.

 

[Randy Heinemann]

I certainly don't have the experience that the others who answered have but, when I got beyond carbide insert tools, I bought the Crown Tools 1/2 Inch Powder Metallurgy Ellsworth Gouge. It came with the Ellsworth grind so was much more expensive because of the Ellsworth name. It may seem like a gimmick but I really believe the powder metallurgy steel holds an edge much longer than others. Anyway, I find that I don't need to sharpen very often during a bowl turning and I mostly turn dry wood. I've used other gouges in classes and, while I think they were also high quality tools, I found myself sharpening more often than I do with my Crown gouge. I liked it so much that I bought a second one, but with a standard grind and reground it (which was a little more of a difficult task for me than I imagined). The price for the regular grind was a little less than half the Ellsworth grind and more available. It just feels right and I developed my skills to my current level on it so it also has some other value to me. It's just a well-made gouge with a nice long handle for stability.

Everyone has their favorites, so this is just mine.

 

[Glenn Phipps]

I’m a member of the Woodturners of North Texas club which is about 72 miles from your location. We have several club members who drive further than that.

Apparently there is something wrong with my not driving distance to meet. Well bully for them, that's a choice they make. I choose not to burn diesel, spend that money and put wear and tear on my truck for that. And if other maembers are of the same mind as you in putting me down for not driving distance to meet then I likely wouldn't want to associate with them to begin with

 

[hockenbery]

putting me down for not driving distance to meet then I likely wouldn't want to associate with them to begin with

I didn’t see a put down. Just a comment that many find the benefit of the meetings worth the drive.

t’s all choices you seem to know a lot about cattle. Did you just get a bull and cow and book or did you learn about cattle from mentors?

It has been my observation that folks who take classes and attend demos progress to a high level in a short time.
Those who are self taught usually have an inexperienced teacher and struggle for decades to get to where a one week course would take them.

What you might consider is checking out the demonstrators for upcoming meetings. You might find one worth the drive.

Truckpooling May be an option.

 

[Glenn Phipps]

I didn’t see a put down. Just a comment that many find the benefit of the meetings worth the drive.

t’s all choices you seem to know a lot about cattle. Did you just get a bull and cow and book or did you learn about cattle from mentors?

It has been my observation that folks who take classes and attend demos progress to a high level in a short time.
Those who are self taught usually have an inexperienced teacher and struggle for decades to get to where a one week course would take them.

What you might consider is checking out the demonstrators for upcoming meetings. You might find one worth the drive.

Truckpooling May be an option.

You have a talent for presenting your thoughts in an obnoxious way.

 

[hockenbery]

You have a talent for presenting your thoughts in an obnoxious way.

It wasn’t my intention to offend you.

 

[Daniel Henry]

You have a talent for presenting your thoughts in an obnoxious way.

I have been officially turning for almost one (1) year. However, I have worked in wood for the last fifty (50) years. It is my personal experience that those routinely participating in this forum make an obvious effort to be honest without insulting. They offer opinions without being critical or condescending. I find nothing in those words coming even close to obnoxious. Again from my personal experiences those words were factually and fairly presented.

 

[Glenn Phipps]

It wasn’t my intention to offend you.

I have been turning for over 40 years although I've taken a long break from it. Folks with your talent generally don't intend offense but they care not if they do, they just fail to consider how they present ideas and thoughts and how their discourse may be received. It is a special talent reserved for the elite.

 

[odie]

Those who are self taught usually have an inexperienced teacher and struggle for decades to get to where a one week course would take them.

Hi Al.....

This comment was probably intended for me, because I am the one who constantly promotes self-reliance and learning on an individual basis. Al, you are likely very correct for the great majority of new turners. Most people won't benefit from attempting to be self-taught......and, of those who are, the failure rate is likely extremely high. Having said that, I suppose I must acknowledge that the very few turners who are self-taught, and are reaching high levels of success with it, might have initially prevented that success, if they had listened to others, and pursued their interests with all the external influence for learning that are the common recommendation.

Bottom line is.......only a very few can benefit from being self-taught.......and, they should always be encouraged to seek their own paths.....if that is their intentions.

I am one of those turners who considers myself mostly self-taught......and, I can guarantee that just about everything I do on a lathe is very much out of the mainstream thought. I would not go back and change anything......even though, I probably did spend excessive amounts of time learning some things that could have been learned in a class. Because of the path I took, I feel I have learned other additional things that are definitely not common knowledge.....and these things are what make my turning experience one of the greatest things in my life!

-----odie-----