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Help? Spindle turning oak - chatter

pencheff

pencheff

Joined
Nov 2, 2005
Messages
224
Likes
1
Location
Lancaster, PA
Website
www.gvpencheff.com
Hello all. I'm pretty much a woodturning newcomer only having purchased my midi lathe with extension bed some time in the summer. I've turned a few basic bowls, tried my hand at little boxes, made a nice four legged stool and have generally been having a grand ol' time making shavings, curls, chips and dust. I have a billion newbie questions but will start with this:

Is oak difficult to turn or is it just me? I have a couple hundred board feet of 20 year old air dried 8/4 red oak that I bought from a guy ($1.60 b/f yahoo!) this summer and have been trying to work with it but it seems to fight me when turning spindles. The stool I mentioned above was built with this stuff and I had a LOT of chatter problems on each and every part. Just tonight I was trying to turn a simple center rod with finial for a paper towel holder and no matter how light a touch I tried with gouge or skew the work just chatters like crazy. Also the material always seems to come off in chips, rarely in shavings and almost never in curls.

So is it me? A question of technique? Is my PSI Turncrafter Pro lathe the problem? I keep the tools sharp but they are inexpensive (cough cough) chinese steel. Or is it the material?

Suggestions and comments are welcome.

Greg
Lancaster, PA
 
Brittle stuff, red oak. Also has a big difference in hardness between early and late wood. And then there are the medullary rays that bounce a poorly-supported or dull gouge in spindle orientation and make natural cleavage planes for oak bowls to split. Still, it sells well no matter what you make out of it, so herewith a couple of thoughts that I use to guide my gouges.

Don't press. Never has been a good idea to "ride" the bevel, because when you transition hard to soft, the piece or the tool starts bouncing on you. Let the wood shave itself to the greatest extent possible. Means the bigger the tool and the better the skew angle, the better you will average out your surface, and the less likely you are to get tool skitter.

Roll into the cut. With brittle stuff like this, it's important to get the edge almost perpendicular to the grain to start, then roll to pare. With a skew, you have to do this carefully. With a gouge, you have a bit more natural clearance from the curvature of gouge and wood. You can take a progressively wider shaving after establishing depth. Go to the "Is a Skew The Right Tool for Turning Pens" thread for a picture of tool angle and surface from red oak.

Sharp tools are a plus. Bad steel won't stay sharp as long. Neither will hot edges keep as long, but since you're not going to press, you've cut back on friction heating. If you keep your speed down, you won't have as much wood rubbing the edge over the same time period as if you were at high speed, so that will cut down on the heat too. Combination ought to make those Chinese chisels last like the new powdered kind.
 
Greg

A number of things can come into play here, unfortunately it may not be easy to nail down to one exact issue.
One cause can be the bearings in the lathe or the live center. Do either of them have extra play in them?
One could be the sharpness of the chisel and the angle of the bevel on it.
Another could be the amount of wood you are trying to take off in a single pass.
Is the wood 'loose' between the spur and live center, that can also cause chatter.
Coming into the wood at either too steep or too low an angle can cause chatter to happen.
Trying to spin the wood at the wrong speed for the cut you are making can also cause chatter.
Another thing that can happen is if you are turning thin spindles, it's more prone to chatter as the spindle gets thinner.
If the piece is long, the further away from the headstock or tailstock you get, the more chance of chatter happening.

That's just a few of the possible causes. Sorry but without seening your work and how you are doing it, it's impossible to nail down further.

Maybe try taking a piece of maple or popular and try turning something the same size and see if it happens then also. At least you might narrow down a little where to look.

Good Luck.

Paul
 
Hey Greg,

Backing up to first things first, having been a newbie meself at one point, I spent quite a few years using my skew and gouges as scrapers, rather than cutters. Don't know if this might be part of your problem but, if you're like me, it wouldn't be a huge surprise.

Past that, it's tough to guess at what could be happening cause it could be so many things. Could be the tool, could be the technique, could be the lathe, could be the mounting, could be the wood. Single best bet is to give a call to the nearest turning club and ask for some hands-on help.

Good luck,
Dietrich
 
thanks!

Thanks to one and all for your helpful advice. What I've gathered is that, yes, it is the material and not me :cool2: That's my story, and I'm stickin' to it.

Seriously though I believe I've been riding the bevel too hard and initiating the chatter as Michael points out. I am using the tools correctly, not just scraping away at the material.

I've been thinking about making a steady rest and see if that helps.

I'll be starting on another stool soon for the wife's office. I'll try to take it slow and easy, keep those tools sharp and steady on the rest and hope for the best.

Greg
Lancaster PA
 
Learning the wood...

Greg,

I turn a lot of oak spindles. I have a set to do now that are 2" diameter & 52.5" long. Once you learn the wood you are turning you won't have any problems. Here's how I do it if I start a spindle and just can't get it right:

First make sure that everything that you can control is taken care of (sharpen tools, lathe tuned up, tool rest filed smooth, etc.), then relax.

Next, rough a spindle blank down to a smooth cylinder and turn off the lathe.

Now, with your freshly sharpened tool of choice (any you will use on the project) take a shaving while turning the lathe/wood by hand. Hold the skew or gouge with your right hand and turn the lathe with your left. Play with the angles using light pressure until you get a nice shaving. Once you do, study the tool position, memorize it, and try it with the lathe on. You don't need any more pressure against the wood with the lathe on than with it off.

I hope this helps you as much as it did me when I learned it!
 
djb said:
You should always work from the tailstock toward the headstock on spindles.
Click to expand...

No offense, but I can't totally agree with this. Short stuff really isn't a problem but when you get very thin or long pieces, all bets are off. I usually try to work from the middle to each end. At least for me, I like to work from the thinner part towards either the headstock or tailstock. I usually end up with less whip.

Paul
 
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