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Hollowing Vessels

V

Vincent Vogel

Joined
Aug 16, 2022
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Location
Butler, PA
How deep can you hollow a vessel such as a flower vase with hand held tools ? I would like to be able to do 10" deep by about 3 to 6 inches diameter. I really don't want to get into hollowing rigs because I don't see where I want to make large objects at this point in time.
Thanks
 
Vincent Vogel said:
How deep can you hollow a vessel such as a flower vase with hand held tools ?
Click to expand...
I have done 12” hand held. It is slow going. I went to a Jamieson hollowing system around 2000.
started hollowing in 1994. Did an 8” piece with a termite. Then got Stewart system with arm brace.
really speedEd up the hollowing and made fine control so much easier to maintain.

a 1.5” diameter bar is a big help over 8”. Smaller cutters make deeper easier.

What you need to know is how deep you can hollow. to find out Work your way up in depth. The deeper you go the lighter the cuts.
a 7” deep piece is pretty easy hand held and is atypical class depth.
do a couple vessels at 7”, 8”, 9”……. If you find it really slow going re evaluate getting a Jamieson handle.
 
I was trying to do a 9" deep flower vase with a 1" opening. I got to 7" and can't go deeper with the tools I have. I did learn small cuts work better the deeper you go.
 
It is not a question of how deep hand hollowing can go - just need a longer handle to counter the tool cutting force on the handle. The “rule of thumb” 5x the amount of tool rest over hang works pretty good from my experience. To go 10 inches make a handle ~50” long.

Small cutters for the hollowing, then larger scraper cutters to smooth things up with light cuts if needed - small holes in deep vessels dont need to be real smooth inside.

I did a lot of hand held hollowing and got a hollowing rig for 2 risk reasons: personal injury and ruining work. It takes CONSTANT concentration to keep the cutter above center and not take too big of a cut. One “oopsy” and you could injure yourself or ruin the piece. Luckily I never injured myself but did ruin several pieces. I was just about finished with a nice piece about 10” tall, had a lapse of attention and got a catch, and blew the top out. I had already been researching rigs and knew what I wanted, and ordered one that day (Jamieson “I want it all” pkg).

With the threat of injury gone, and not having to maintain such a high level of attention, hollowing became much more fun and enjoyable. I still hollow by hand, small items and getting started on larger work, but typically only 4-5” overhang off the rest.

Can help you out with either hand held or a rig. Depending on how “handy” you are with metal working, boring bars can be made at home. I have made a lot of them up to 1/2” dia and working on a 3/4” now for hand held. Boring bars can be used in a hand held handle or with a rig - the bar connection just needs to be the same.
 
Vincent Vogel said:
I was trying to do a 9" deep flower vase with a 1" opening. I got to 7" and can't go deeper with the tools I have. I did learn small cuts work better the deeper you go.
Click to expand...
you can hollow a 9” deep piece through the bottom with 1.5” bar and disguise the plug with grooves.
then you can have a 1/2” or 1/4” opening

this is a hollow turning I did with gouges glue joint is one of the grooves D0399271-5C4F-40BA-99D9-DA7E7E82DA19.jpeg
 
I've been through a number of evolutions for hollowing and found I really struggled to do them by hand for the reasons pointed out by Doug. Lots of work and one slip and it can be ruined or a long bar hits you in the face. A catch in the bottom through a small opening can do a lot of damage in a split second. It also depends on the wood and the cutter. Different by hand hollowing depths for oak vs cedar vs ash. For 10" you'll need a good thick and long bar, sharp cutter and a good way to know the orientation of your cutter once it's in the piece. My experience is after about 4-5 inches it's very slow going by hand.

My two cents is to look at a hollowing rig - captured, articulated, home made, others. There are lots of options. Since they can make the process for even smaller pieces easier, even bowls and lidded pieces you may find that with a basic rig you do more forms and shape variations since the process isn't such a challenge.
 
I think the first articulated arm set ups, Monster? maybe, they claimed you could go 12 inches deep. I figure that was closer to 6 and maybe 8 once you got the hang of it. Like all have said, the deeper you go, the smaller you want your cutter to be.

robo hippy
 
Buy the hollowing system. Your arm, wrist, and shoulder will thank you. Maybe not that day, but absolutely will thank you in 20 years. Feels like about 90% of my joints talk to me when a storm is coming. 50 years of woodworking and 37 years of turning absolutely takes a toll. 10" deep is a large vessel and trying to stay on center 10" away is a genuine task.
 
Hello Vincent....Great topic you've brought up. Not sure if there is a specific answer to your question....to many pieces to the puzzle. Bottom line it all depends on your skill and physical strength.
I first learned to do hand held hollowing from the "Master" David Ellsworth. It was not fun! That little voice we all hear, that says danger was always there. Hand held hollowing takes a lifetime to master. David says he can "hear" the wall thickness in his hollow form while he's turning it.
Lot's of great comments in this thread & thank you for the mentions about my hollowing system. I created the first captured hollowing system in 1996. I wanted to make something that made hollowing safe and fun!
Stay safe and good luck Vincent....

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nutI3lYKuXk
 
After reading the replies I think for this project I'm going to cut a hole in the bottom of the vase and attack it from the bottom. What the problem is I used spalted hickory that isn't dry and since the wall thickness isn't consistent it's developing cracks. If I continue with these deeper vessels I will consider a rig. I have the equipment to build one just have to decide which style to go with. My dilemma is I have immediate use for a coring jig since I have a lot of wood to get roughed out. I have been watching the thread about double railed boring tools and it's interesting.
 
The distance over the tool rest can be extended if the handle is long enough and rigid enough. These two pictures are 2 examples of some of my homemade hollowing tools.
ProformToolMount.jpg This is a Woodcut proforme head mounted on a 1" x 4' solid shaft with the end tapered and bored to mount the head. If the guard is too open which will allow a larger cut I have stopped the lathe with it extended 10" off the rest. Note: if you rotate the handle counterclockwise so the guard rubs then surface then gently rotate clockwise till the depth desired depth of cut is achieved.
RingToolStdCustom.JPG This is a standard Oneway ring tool that starts to flex & chatter when extended 5 to 6" off the rest. The tool in the background is the same Oneway ring tip mounted on a repurposed grapple tine that has been bored and tapered then about 4 feet of steel tubing is added as a handle.
 
How long is a piece of string? Its pretty much whatever you decide to do and then tool up to meet the challenge. I routinely go around 12" on vases, although my hollowing gear could probably do twice that.I have a couple of captured set-ups but rarely use them, preferring instead the hand held. I use for the most part the shielded variety of hollowers,Woodcut Pro-Forme, Rolly Munro and 2 or 3 others DIY of my own design. In fact I rarely hollow with a gouge these days its all done with dedicated hollowers and gouges for the external
 
It was at the AAW Symposium in Albuquerque NM where I was with Doug Thompson and he allowed Randy Privett space in his booth with his Monster hollowing systems. After getting Doug set up I helped Randy set up and while talking to him I casually put my hand on his articulated hollowing system and started moving it around. I pulled out my wallet and paid for one on the spot. Doug being Doug made sure that I also got the captured system as well. I also have Alan Trout's Pro-Rail Hollowing System. I have used John Jordans Hollowers and Kelton Hollowers mainly until I got Mike Hunter's boring bars and his set of three hollowing tools the difference being that the Hunters cut where the 2 others scrape. I have scraped a lot of hollow forms with the Jordans and Keltons and they work but they just don't work as well as the Hunters (So much less vibrations). The Hunter bars get me 12" or 13" deep with the 3/4" bar and 18" or 19" deep with the 1" bar. Last year I added Steve Sinner's Steady Rest which gives me almost absolute chatterless cutting. Compare that to 2001 until 2009 struggling hand hollowing it was and is like a miracle!:)
 
Having never had a captured bar hollowing system I can't comment on any of them or how easy they would be compared to hand hollowing, which is what I have always done.

There were no captured systems available back when I began hollowing, well not where I am, so I just got used to doing it by hand. I rarely have a need to go much deeper than 12", beyond which a captured system may come into its own for me.

The other factor for me is that I only do half a dozen hollow pieces a year for which the cost of a rig is probably not justified, given that I'm getting by without one. Had I begun hollowing when rigs first became available I may have gone that way.

With hand hollowing I still do the bulk of the hollowing with a bowl gouge using a reverse cut. When you are turning outboard that is a comfortable cut to do. A 3/4" Woodcut bowl gouge has a long solid bar and will cut deeply within the form without vibration. I would then use a Shepid Loop for cutting up under the shoulder. When the Pro-Forme came out I went over to those, as well as the Munro. Those tools cut much like a gouge.

I also use the Pro-Scraper Head (not the Pro-Forme Flexi Scraper). The Pro-Scraper Head allows for internal shear scraping at whatever shear angle you want and I find it an invaluable finishing tool for inside work. The Pro-Scraper Head replaced my DIY fixed tip carbide scrapers that I used before that.

I don't find hollowing that way up to about 12" deep, like this one, overly difficult to achieve by hand...

IMG_6261.JPG​

I do find that hollowing wider more of a challenge than hollowing deeper, like the following one that I'm currently working on, which is only 10" high, but about 18" wide...

20230212_160026.jpg

And, with some of my pieces, like the following two, turning out the inside shoulder is an extra challenge…

Blackwood - 6.5 x 3in.JPG

IMG_1224.JPG​
 
I followed the advice given above to hollow from the bottom. With the size of the vessel I was able to get the wall thickness to 1/4" from top to bottom and so far that has stopped the cracks. From reading all the posts I see there are many way to accomplish this. I will probably buy/build some type of captured system in the future. Thanks for the replies and if anyone else has something else to add it would be interesting. This is another turning rabbit hole I have discovered
 
U could Hollow from the right side of ways like J. Paul Fennell.
 
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