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How to turn dry wood

W

woodsmanplus

Joined
Jan 18, 2006
Messages
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Location
Tampa & NC
Hello as new turner I have heard a great deal about turning green wood.I have never saw anything about turning dry wood untill today when I read an artical suggesting that you spray a soapy sollution on it as you turn.Does anyone have any suggestions on this as I have a great deal of very dry blanks available.Any help will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Ken
 
Turning dry

woodsmanplus said:
I read an artical suggesting that you spray a soapy sollution on it as you turn
Click to expand...

No need to spray anything on dry wood. Just start turnin'. :)

If all us newbies only turned green wood we wouldn't get to finish anything for 6 months to a year cause, by all accounts, that's how long everyone waits for their roughed out blanks to dry. Except for the nuke-em (microwave drying) and soak-em (Denatured alcohol soak) crowd that is.
 
Hi Ken,

Welcome to the vortex!! I am different than most here (and they would agree :rolleyes: ) in that I prefer turning dry wood. Most of my early start in turning was doing spindle work on dry wood. I got tired of turning green items and then having to dry them and try to salvage the warped items after they dried. I started about 18 months ago cutting my blanks, waxing the ends and putting them into a refrigerator kiln and drying them before turning. This allows me to take a blank and go from start to finish at one time.

The only difference in dry turning and green is that the wood is usually harder to cut and produces more dust. Basically like the item would be for the second turning after a green turned item drys. I find for the initial removal of large amounts of wood I like a larger bowl gouge and have to stop a little more often to sharpen it (actually hone it several times between sharpening). I keep dust collection and air cleaner running along with wearing a half face respirator and have no more problems from the dust than I experienced doing the dry turn on a green turned piece.

The big advantage to dry turning I have found is that you do not loose pieces to warping and checking. The drying of the blank has already taken care of 99% of these problems and small cracks that show up are easily handled with CA glue and sawdust. In addition you are able to start a piece and finish it with design fresh in your "minds eye".

I have never heard of spraying a dry item with soap - do you have a link to the article? There is a technique for green turning that includes soaking in a soap bath to help the piece dry and not warp and crack as much but this one is a new concept to me.

Keep in mind that segmented work is done with dry wood and most all of spindle work is done dry so turning dry wood is very common.

Wilford
 
Thanks for the info.I don't remember where I read that artical on spraying the wood with soapy water.I am constantly reading everything I can to help me learn all I can.As I am a brand new turner I was concerned about all the dust and was wondering if I was just cutting wrong.So as I have been around for quite a few years,one thing I have learned is that when in doubt ASK.It can save you a lot of headaches down the road.Thanks again.
Ken
 
Wilford,

Can you tell me about your refrigerator klin? I'm quite interested in how you made it and the process you use.

Thanks,
 
No such thing as dry wood

Ken
One of the popular demostrators in my area says 'there is no such thing as dry wood' refering to an air dry blank 2" thick or more will not have the same moisture all the way thru. I did not believe him until I started turning larger platters from 1.75" thick material and found they warped a little within a day or so after turning. Since then I rough turn everything even dry blanks. Now if the blank was 'dry' I will only wait a couple days to finish the piece. I get flat platters this way.

One of the Dry/Wet arguements is cost. I am willing to purchase wood while some turners for reasons of either budget or just the principle of the question do not. Dry wood most often comes from a hardwood supplier while wet wood comes from trees and your chainsaw. Both turn well, just handled slightly different. Please try both and learn to enjoy turning both wet and dry and you'll have a broader range of skills and products as you dive deeper into your new hobby.
Frank
 
Frank - I'm wondering if some of the warpage from your 2" pieces is due to released stress in the wood. For example I rough turn, wax, then re-turn a year later. I just did the finish turning on a 1" dry oak bowl. That bowl was drying for 2 years in my hot Austin, TX garage. It seemed like it was drier than a package of dessicant :cool2: But after the finish turning it warped a little. I attribute that particular warping to released stress in the thinner wood.
 
The key in determining when wood is "dry" for turning is to understand that end grain loses/gains moisture ten times faster than face grain. Thus, a square or round awaiting hollowing has a lot of volume out of the end grain exchange zone, where a blank which was hollowed green and dried down has almost none. It is pretty much the same moisture through and through, because there's hardly a spot more than an inch or so away from the atmosphere through the end grain.

The reason most people turn green wood is to take advantage of the ease of drying. You really have to baby a thick lump of wood to avoid drying defect, where a rough turning can dry rapidly, distorting its thin section rather than splitting. If you want to push drying, you want to turn thinner, since the inverse square rule applies - or nearly so - to moisture loss. Double thickness, four times the dry time. A 3/4" rough - enough to give me 3/8 inch thick walls on a 12" bowl - dries nicely in six weeks, pushes in four or less. Three stages, with the initial free fall to 30% complete in a couple days or so at >75% RH, couple weeks there, then to the final, verified by two successive weeks at the same weight in the same RH.

Go green to 3/8 or less wall thickness, and you can pretty much finish it in a week. You have to live with the distortion, however.
 
Griesbach said:
Wilford,

Can you tell me about your refrigerator klin? I'm quite interested in how you made it and the process you use.

Thanks,
Click to expand...


It is really simple - I had an old upright freezer that had quit working. I cut about a 3 inch hole in the top and bottom (covered both holes with hardware cloth as mine is located under roof at cattle chute). Wired 2 ceramic light fixtures and metal electrical boxes into the very bottom for incandescent bulbs with a dimmer switch for control on the outside of the freezer. In addition I wired a bath room exhaust fan in the bottom right under the first shelf just to help circulate air - this wires in without dimmer switch, just a regular on/off switch.

Add 2 100 watt bulbs and load up wood! There was an article in the AAW archive issue CD's that showed how to do this operation. I try to hold temp between 110oF and 140oF. I read somewhere that about 160oF can damage wood same as it does mulch for the garden if temp gets too high but can't remember where I read it - I just make sure I don't let it get above 140oF and have had no problems. I have a $20 2 pin moisture meter from HF and just run long enough to make sure all the blanks get fully dry throughout - will take one out after I am getting dry readings and turn to test interior. Each load of wood will vary in time to dry as to weather, initial moisture, type of wood, etc.

If I remember the approximate cost correctly the fan was about $15, lights and boxes $6, dimmer switch $5, regular switch for fan $2 - total about $30. I already had romex wiring at farm and as I said the freezer was available to prevent hauling to dump!!

Wilford
 
You're proably right

Jeff
You are probably right. I like to inlay in the rims of platters. Sometimes I carve a slogan for someone or a design by hand then inlay. My local Priest asked me to do a platter for our Bishop with the Bishop's motto carved in the rim for Christmas. Of course I he didn't ask until about December 10th and needed it by the 19th and of course I was said yes just because I can't say no. Becuase of the busy holiday life schedule I turned the platter on Saturday, layed out the letters in the few minutes I had on Sunday with the piece still in the chuck, took Monday off work to carve, inlay and finish. Carving went great. I inlayed the mineral and started to turn off the excess and before I knew it the middle words of the motto were dispearing. Re-carving and re-inlaying quickly looked unworthy of the customer and I had to make the call that said maybe I'll make him a platter for Easter. Waiting a day or two is enough to solve the problem and I guess it is just a habit I have gotten into since this disappointment before Christmas.

I have only been turning a little more than two years and I spend every spare minute and dime on my obession. My lovely and generous wife thinks its wonderful and it has only required one trip to the orthopedic surgeon so as hobbys go for me it a good one. I learn mostly from reading on line and mistakes. Sometimes (rather most of the time) it is little things that make a piece special versus average or worse. As I learn I try not to forget.
Frank
 
Wilford,
Thanks for the fine instruction. I will also look it up in the AAW CD. I don't really want to have this in my shop but am thinking about having it in our unheated barn (in Wisconsin). Do you think that would be a problem? Sounds like that's where yours is located but I don't know if you've got heat other than that given off by the cattle.

Now...how can I wreck our freezer :D.
 
We were down to about 27oF the last 2 nights and mine is holding 118oF when checked this morning. Actually cattle only come near this shed about 2 times a year unless sick! Only thing I can think of would be you might have to increase number of lights or go to 200 watt bulb (I think they still make them) to maintain heat in Wisconsin. Here in Alabama during the summer I cut way down with dimmer switch and even cut back to 60 watt bulbs and take a bulb out when it is 98oF outside!! No heat in this shed - walls don't even go all the way down. Actually a 2 car roof we put up to protect cattle chute and us when working cattle in bad weather.

Wilford

Edit: Check with appliance repair shops, they often have old refrigerators or freezers that they will give away to save hauling off. For frige with freezer on top just cut holes on through each level so air can flow up and out!
 
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That's an interesting story Frank. I'll bet a lot of finished products only get that way (finished) by pressure to meet a deadline. It's too bad that piece didn't work out well, but now you have until Easter...or at least 10 days before Easter :-)

I learned the hard way that oak in Austin would prefer to warp and crack than become a bowl. Now when someone offers me some of their oak tree I just say no. There are too many other good woods which don't have the problems.

There is one oak piece on the roughout shelf which I have not yet thrown out. It is an endgrain oak box, only about 4" wide x 8" tall. Both the bottom and top have a single huge split. It looks like someone took an axe to both of them.
 
Forgot one item!

Cyril,

My wife reminded me of one item I had to add to the kiln that I forgot to tell you. I was having trouble controlling the temp as cooler weather came on and cut a piece of 3/16 inch plate steel about 4 inches square. Drilled a hole in one corner and mounted it where it could be moved over the top hole in the freezer to slow down the air flow. I use it as a damper.

Wilford
 
Why would you want to monitor and control something which only indirectly affects the drying rate and eventual moisture content of the wood? Since the amount of water in wood depends on relative humidity, warming the air with the light effectively lowers it. Unfortunately, it lowers it to a greater or lesser degree depending on what you can't control, the absolute humidity of the outside air, what you poorly control, the temperature within the enclosure, and what you wish to control, the moisture content of the wood.

Rather, control the affecting factor directly through the use of a humidistat to control your heat, ventilation or both. That's what's done in a kiln of any sort, whether or not the RH is modified by heat, confinement, vacuum or microwave excitation.
 
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