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Hunter Tool systems best option for inside diameter.

Aidan Lasky

Aidan Lasky

Joined
Oct 7, 2021
Messages
49
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44
Location
Lexington Park, MD
So I’ve been looking at the hunter Korpro cartridge for the Oneway coring system several times a week, which means I am going to purchase it. Seeing the recent thread giving praise was the ultimate deciding factor for me to pull the trigger. Can’t wait to get it.

I figure I might as well get my first serious carbide tool, (I just have cheap ones from Amazon) and have been going back and forth between the Viceroy and the Phoenix.

I mainly want a tool for scraping away the bottom curve/corner at the bottom of deeper bowls.

I’m strongly leaning towards the viceroy as I believe the square shaft will offer additional support. I’m accustomed to very large unbalanced pieces, I also tend to be a bit aggressive with my cuts. The phoenix seems like it could be more versatile for head on cuts and finish cuts.

Any thoughts or opinions from owners of either/both?
 
I am loving my Badger #3, which I got for essentially the same purpose. It's an amazingly versatile tool, and the cutters just go and go without any dulling that I can tell (even after wet walnut and super-dry "peconcrete"). I recently got the Badger #3 Swan Neck, and will slowly get to know it as I am its straight counter-part. I'm also looking at the Hercules for serious roughing, as I'm a big fan of the whole concept. There is no comparison between Hunter's cupped cutters and standard carbide cutters, which I have and hardly use at all anymore since getting the Hunters. And while of course I use standard gouges and love them, I feel far more confident coming around the inside of a bowl with the Badger.

And yes, I have watched all of John's videos repeatedly. it's a really intuitive tool to use once you get a feel for it.
 
I just posted a dropbox link in the Oneway Coring thread - to the 10 sec. video of me using 1 finger to core - with the Korpro. The Korpro is a Hunter cupped cutter - the same as the round ones on the Viceroy, and Badger, etc...except it is diamond shaped, and makes coring a breeze.
 
Tim Tucker said:
I just posted a dropbox link in the Oneway Coring thread - to the 10 sec. video of me using 1 finger to core - with the Korpro. The Korpro is a Hunter cupped cutter - the same as the round ones on the Viceroy, and Badger, etc...except it is diamond shaped, and makes coring a breeze.
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I have to go and look at my tools. But, without checking, I don't think that the Korpro is anything like the cupped cutters of all the other Hunter tools. I have most of them. I use the Number 5 Badger tool for the inside curve/ transition area of my calabash bowls.
 
My problem with this question is that there are many Hunter tools that will work just great for the question. #1 or #2 Viceroy, #5 Badger, #1 or #2 Osprey will all get the job done easily. For someone that hasn't used the Hunters the square or flat shafted Hunters are a good start because sitting flat on the tool rest the cutter is in the proper cutting configuration. As far as the bevel rubbing cut I would first practice on a platter type piece where you can easily see and feel the cutter and how it is cutting because with the sharpness of these cutters it can go south in a big hurry. As far as the carbide cutter on the KorPro vs the round carbides and calling them all cupped cutters is something I wouldn't argue as the cutting edges on all of them are steep and sharp, the only difference is round vs diamond shape. I echo John a bit as I would never give up my Hunter tools, my Thompson tools or my Best Wood tools:)
 
Emiliano Achaval said:
I have to go and look at my tools. But, without checking, I don't think that the Korpro is anything like the cupped cutters of all the other Hunter tools. I have most of them. I use the Number 5 Badger tool for the inside curve/ transition area of my calabash bowls.
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I was not as clear with my description as I should have been. Sorry Emiliano. I was thinking of how to describe the profile of the cutting edge. The shape of the Korpro is diamond shape, if viewed from the top tho. And, the Korpro is just for scoring as far as I know. My post was to point to coring video I made using the Korpro. I think I hijacked the thread without thinking.....
 
I'm looking at getting a couple of Hunter tools myself, but I'm a little unclear on the numbering of some of the tools. Based on Emiliano's comments and my anticipated uses, I'm interested in the Badger #5 tools, but Aaron referred to the Badger #3 and John referred to the 4 Badger. What are those? Earlier versions or something different?
 
Richard Coers said:
I still prefer a HSS wide scraper with a shallow arc ground on the end. I get a great visual of a smooth fair curve as I move the wide scraper across the bottom. The small carbide does not give you much to lean on, nor a visual guide for long curves. Just my experience and opinion of course.
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I do this, too-I like the Hunter tools more for the transition and coming up the sides.
 
Ric Williams said:
I'm looking at getting a couple of Hunter tools myself, but I'm a little unclear on the numbering of some of the tools. Based on Emiliano's comments and my anticipated uses, I'm interested in the Badger #5 tools, but Aaron referred to the Badger #3 and John referred to the 4 Badger. What are those? Earlier versions or something different?
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Ric-I am far from an expert on the Hunter tools, just an enthusiastic student at this point. The numbering system can be kind of confusing, though this chart helped clear it up for me: https://huntertoolsystems.com/about/specs/

To make matters more confusing, the #5 Badgers (which I have both the straight and swan necks on), take the #3 cutter. I originally got mine for straight sided boxes, but I like it for bowls too. In fact, I just finished the insides on a deep cherry bowl, and the Badger helped me clean it up a lot. And the advantages of the heavy, tapered round tool shaft are 2-fold: 1. helps dampen vibration, and 2" Rolling the cutter face "into the cut" until you hit the sweet spot is just so easy and intuitive. My hands just sort of intuitively "get" this tool almost more than any other tool I have (except for my other favorite tool, the humble and versatile parting tool-which I keep finding more and more uses for, but that's another thread).
 
Bill Blasic said:
The designation of the insert used in the tool. Inserts #s 1, 2, 3, 4 and 3/5.
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So a Badger #4 is a Badger tool with a 12mm cutter and a Badger #3 and Badger #5 would both have a 10mm cutter?

Richard Coers said:
I still prefer a HSS wide scraper with a shallow arc ground on the end. I get a great visual of a smooth fair curve as I move the wide scraper across the bottom. The small carbide does not give you much to lean on, nor a visual guide for long curves. Just my experience and opinion of course.
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I generally do too, but I do a fair amount of end grain hollowing and find that some pieces tend to tear out even with a fresh burr and will only cooperate with a sharp cutting edge.
Like 150 year old oak barnwood:
BarnWoodJars.JPG
It doesn't tear out so much as turn to powder, leaving pits like tear out. Trying to get rid of it on the inside bottom is a pain.
 
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robo hippy said:
Really nice jars Ric! Can you show pics with the lids off? I do like a NRS for finish cuts on the bottoms of my boxes.

robo hippy
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Thanks Reed, that means a lot to me. Here are a couple pics. I found that even an NRS didn't help much with this very dry, brittle wood.

BarnJars1.jpgBarnJars2.jpg

So that this doesn't divert too much from the original topic, I ordered a straight Badger #5 yesterday. I considered trying to fabricate my own version, but I'm sure the mild steel rod from the local hardware isn't going to be as good as what Hunter is using and my metal working skills are marginal at best.
 
Got the straight Badger #5 yesterday and got to try it for a few minutes last night. Holy... whatever! I was blown away! With the first few cuts, I got surface finishes that looked almost polished in a really hard piece of end grain cherry with the pith and a couple of knots. And that's without any previous experience with the tool, just watching a brief video on recommended techniques.
It's gonna blow up any attempt at maintaining some kind of (imaginary) tool budget, but I'm definitely gonna get the curved Badger #5. FWIW, I looked on the Hunter site last night and it looks like the prices went up this week. Not surprising these days.
 
Ric Williams said:
Got the straight Badger #5 yesterday and got to try it for a few minutes last night. Holy... whatever! I was blown away! With the first few cuts, I got surface finishes that looked almost polished in a really hard piece of end grain cherry with the pith and a couple of knots. And that's without any previous experience with the tool, just watching a brief video on recommended techniques.
It's gonna blow up any attempt at maintaining some kind of (imaginary) tool budget, but I'm definitely gonna get the curved Badger #5. FWIW, I looked on the Hunter site last night and it looks like the prices went up this week. Not surprising these days.
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Ric, I had almost that identical reaction, and also followed up with the Swan Neck #5. I got a couple of spare cutters too just in case I ever actually dull the originals.
 
Used the straight Badger #5 today on some ambrosia maple that had some punky areas that would tear out no matter what I tried. A few light cuts with the Badger and it was smooth with little to no tear out. That was enough to make me order the swan neck Badger #5 and a spare cutter. I think these are gonna get a lot of use. I do need to practice riding the bevel with these tools around inside curves, but it should come fairly easily.
 
Ric Williams said:
I'm looking at getting a couple of Hunter tools myself, but I'm a little unclear on the numbering of some of the tools. Based on Emiliano's comments and my anticipated uses, I'm interested in the Badger #5 tools, but Aaron referred to the Badger #3 and John referred to the 4 Badger. What are those? Earlier versions or something different?
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The #4 badger is now called the #5. Mike renamed the tool after I made the video. It was his first tool and the namingvand numbering had not started.
 
Ric Williams said:
I'm looking at getting a couple of Hunter tools myself, but I'm a little unclear on the numbering of some of the tools. Based on Emiliano's comments and my anticipated uses, I'm interested in the Badger #5 tools, but Aaron referred to the Badger #3 and John referred to the 4 Badger. What are those? Earlier versions or something different?
Click to expand...
The #5 Badger straight and swan use a Number #3/5 cutter- there is no #3 badger (it uses the same size cutter as any tool labeled a number 3 but a larger shank (5/8 shank)-
there is no #4 badger- the #4 tool john references is a smaller shaft (1/2") and a larger cutter- the #4 straight tool and the #5 badger tools have no built in angle- you control the angle-
the viceroy has a front tilt angle as does the phoenix.
 
john lucas said:
I prefer to use the Hunter tools as bevel riding tools for cleaning up the bottoms. The Viceroy can be used as a bevel riding tool but I prefer the 4 badger. I have videos on both tools:

View: https://youtu.be/ZmHb47oplvQ


View: https://youtu.be/nfp2kvhH6Mo
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John,

I've watched a few videos over the past couple of days; yours and Hunter Tool. When you talk about riding the bevel on the Hunter Badger #5, I assume you are talking about riding the bevel on the cutter itself? Is that correct?

How does that differ from how the Hercules #3 would be used?

Are there any differences between the two tools with regard to results on the inside of a bowl? That is my primary problem; getting a smooth finish on the inside.
 
Years ago I suggested to mike that he grind the support bar on his tools to match the bevel. This allows you to ride or float the bevel of the tools for cleaner cuts. The Badger can only be used as a bevel rubbing or as a shear scraper.
The Hercules is more versatile in that it can be used with the cutter flat like a scraper and removes wood quickly and easily. It is very easy to use as a bevel rubbing tool because the nose angle is very close to the same as your typical bowl gouge. You can also use it as a shear scraper.
 
john lucas said:
Years ago I suggested to mike that he grind the support bar on his tools to match the bevel. This allows you to ride or float the bevel of the tools for cleaner cuts. The Badger can only be used as a bevel rubbing or as a shear scraper.
The Hercules is more versatile in that it can be used with the cutter flat like a scraper and removes wood quickly and easily. It is very easy to use as a bevel rubbing tool because the nose angle is very close to the same as your typical bowl gouge. You can also use it as a shear scraper.
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I'm definitely confused about which to buy and I even talked with Mike today on the phone. He does very clearly favor the Hercules but, when watching videos online it appears that the Badger may be a better choice, although with maybe a slightly longer learning curve. It's my understanding the cutters on the two tools are the same size. I feel a larger cutter will eliminate some ridges I have after using the Viceroy. To be clear, I really only am interested in yet another tool to help improve the finish on the insides of my bowls.
 
john lucas said:
Years ago I suggested to mike that he grind the support bar on his tools to match the bevel. This allows you to ride or float the bevel of the tools for cleaner cuts. The Badger can only be used as a bevel rubbing or as a shear scraper.
The Hercules is more versatile in that it can be used with the cutter flat like a scraper and removes wood quickly and easily. It is very easy to use as a bevel rubbing tool because the nose angle is very close to the same as your typical bowl gouge. You can also use it as a shear scraper.
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I purchased a Badger tool from Mike two or three years ago after discussing what I wanted with him. I love it, but can only use it in the shear scraping mode. The heel of the support sticks out just a little too much to float the bevel. Hadn’t thought about grinding it back some, I’ll have to check if I can do that when I get home in a couple days without compromising the integrity of the screw attachment.
 
I use the Badger constantly in bevel rubbing mode. Super clean cuts. Takes the place of the bottoming gouge.
The Badger and Hercules are two different tools. Depending on what you turn one might be better than the other. I use the Badger for the inside finishing cuts on my boxes. I have not found a better tool for that. The Hercules is goid for hollowing the boxes and can be used on the outside as a bevel rubbing tool just like a push cut with a bowl gouge.
 
@john lucas - thank you for your comments. As mentioned, I’ve tried to use my Badger in bevel rubbing mode but found it too grabby. Notice in the pic that the support comes out at an angle from the cutter, not much but enough that I haven’t been able to bevel rub smoothly without it digging in.

Not sure why I never thought to grind it off! Looking forward to getting a “new” tool when I rectify the situation. Thanks again.
 

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Yes, thank you @john lucas. Your video clearly shows your #4 Hunter to have the support steel behind the straight line extended from the cutter, allowing you to rub the bevel. I can’t tell from your video if your #3 is the same, I suspect it is. Note in my pic the tool steel is proud of the extention of the cutter.

Not sure if mine was before you suggested to Mike that he round the heel, or if mine was just ground wrong.

I do also have the set of 3 #1 hollowing Hunter’s. These have the support steel behind the line extending from the cutters, not proud of it, allowing them to be used bevel rubbing.
 
Ron,
If the tool is too grabby, one way to manage is to rotate it so the cutting edge is more vertical. For a BOB gouge type use, maybe the bottom of the edge at 5 o'clock rather than 4 o'clock. Or even 5:30.
 
I messaged Mike Hunter last night, and he got back to me immediately. This morning 5-10min with a file cleaned up my Badger tool well. Compare the picture below with the prior one I posted. The heel is no longer proud of the cutter bevel. I used it in bevel rubbing mode just before, and after, filing it. Before filing the heel gets in the way, and burnishes the wood after, the cut. After relieving the heal it is a joy to slice cleanly in bevel rubbing/floating mode.

Thanks again John for causing me to relook at this tool. And thanks, as always, to Mike for great tools and even better support.
A6F4C040-7139-4824-AE6B-1C0E87A18873.jpeg
 
Dean Center said:
Ron,
If the tool is too grabby, one way to manage is to rotate it so the cutting edge is more vertical. For a BOB gouge type use, maybe the bottom of the edge at 5 o'clock rather than 4 o'clock. Or even 5:30.
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Ron Solfest said:
I messaged Mike Hunter last night, and he got back to me immediately. This morning 5-10min with a file cleaned up my Badger tool well. Compare the picture below with the prior one I posted. The heel is no longer proud of the cutter bevel. I used it in bevel rubbing mode just before, and after, filing it. Before filing the heel gets in the way, and burnishes the wood after, the cut. After relieving the heal it is a joy to slice cleanly in bevel rubbing/floating mode.

Thanks again John for causing me to relook at this tool. And thanks, as always, to Mike for great tools and even better support.
View attachment 49864
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I don’t mean to resurrect an older thread but this is really helpful. Thank you for posting this photo. I’ve been right on the brink of getting good cuts with my Badger but something wasn’t quite working. I’m looking forward to trying this out.
 
Alan Weinberg said:
a bit of thread drift but just got and tried my first Hunter tool—the larger Osprey—and wow! Hollows out fast and leaves such a smooth finish. Great tool.
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This thread is a year old but I guess I can add to the mix, even if the original writer has already purchased whatever tool he wanted. Forgive me for sounding like a tool manufacturer, this is more about Hunter than Jamieson. I had Mike Hunter design a Hunter carbide tool for my Hollowing system. The key word in the original question was "scrape". Hunter tools are very aggressive scrapers and are better used as bevel supported slicing tools. My Hunter tool on the captured hollowing system is set up as a slicing tool and the dedicated angle, with the razor sharp Hunter tool, leaves a surface behind inside an end grain box that looks like it has been sanded to 400 grit right off the tool. Another reason to use a captured system for small items like lidded boxes and Christmas ornaments is the laser puts you in complete control of a uniform wall thickness and makes the fitting of the lid easier.
 
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