Inlay Question

[Lamar Wright]

Hello turners, I have a question about inlay material used in inclusions on plates and bowls. When mixing lets say, crushed turquoise with a clear epoxy and once it drys after you put the mix into the inclusion, what should you use to sand the hard material with? I saw one utube video of a turner using a hand grinder with a diamond blade to cut the turquoise with. For those turners that use inlay regularly, what do you use in this process?

 

[john lucas]

I've only done it once and used angle grinder to closely level the surface before using sandpaper. I do a fair amount of metal inlay and on that I use a file to level the surface. The problem is the stone and metal are harder than the wood around it so if you start with course sandpaper it's really easy to make it lumpy. I have used a sandpaper disc that was very stiff with no flex at all. That works about the same as my grinder as long as your careful. I always use 2 hands and sometimes some support when doing this so that I level only the areas I want level.

 

[Bill Boehme]

Turquoise and a lot of other minerals are basically just pretty rocks ... very hard pretty rocks. Decide beforehand if you want the inlay to be flush or proud of the surface. If you want them to be flush I would recommend putting the stones into the inclusion or groove so that they are below the surface and then fill with epoxy or Inlace resin. Turning the resin down so that it is flush with the wood is easy and looks great. Grinding rocks down flush with the wood is pure misery. It can be done, but it isn't fun. I used a silicon carbide matrix circle saw blade normally used for cutting masonry, but I used it like sandpaper with the lathe speed pretty fast. The problem is that the wood will vibrate and it takes some care to get a smooth surface that is flush with the wood.

 

[Clifton C]

Saw Stephen Hatcher at Arrowmont, his web site has a wealth of info...
http://www.stephenhatcher.com/index.php?n=10

cc

 

[Lamar Wright]

I've only done it once and used angle grinder to closely level the surface before using sandpaper. I do a fair amount of metal inlay and on that I use a file to level the surface. The problem is the stone and metal are harder than the wood around it so if you start with course sandpaper it's really easy to make it lumpy. I have used a sandpaper disc that was very stiff with no flex at all. That works about the same as my grinder as long as your careful. I always use 2 hands and sometimes some support when doing this so that I level only the areas I want level.

Hi John

Turquoise and a lot of other minerals are basically just pretty rocks ... very hard pretty rocks. Decide beforehand if you want the inlay to be flush or proud of the surface. If you want them to be flush I would recommend putting the stones into the inclusion or groove so that they are below the surface and then fill with epoxy or Inlace resin. Turning the resin down so that it is flush with the wood is easy and looks great. Grinding rocks down flush with the wood is pure misery. It can be done, but it isn't fun. I used a silicon carbide matrix circle saw blade normally used for cutting masonry, but I used it like sandpaper with the lathe speed pretty fast. The problem is that the wood will vibrate and it takes some care to get a smooth surface that is flush with the wood.

Fantastic idea Bill. Fill stones below the groove or inclusion and cover with inlace resin or clear epoxy. Thanks for the idea. Happy turning.

 

[Lamar Wright]

Saw Stephen Hatcher at Arrowmont, his web site has a wealth of info...
http://www.stephenhatcher.com/index.php?n=10

cc

Hi Cliff, thank you so much for this information on basic stone inlay. Great reading and ideas. Happy turning.

 

[Lamar Wright]

I've only done it once and used angle grinder to closely level the surface before using sandpaper. I do a fair amount of metal inlay and on that I use a file to level the surface. The problem is the stone and metal are harder than the wood around it so if you start with course sandpaper it's really easy to make it lumpy. I have used a sandpaper disc that was very stiff with no flex at all. That works about the same as my grinder as long as your careful. I always use 2 hands and sometimes some support when doing this so that I level only the areas I want level.

Hi John, I could see where using a hand grinder and one slip could damage your piece. I really like Bill Boehme idea of covering the stones that are below the surface of the inclusion with epoxy. Happy turning.

 

[Bill Boehme]

They say that turquoise has a Moh's hardness in the range of 5 to 6 which is about the upper limit of what you would want to grind down. However, I got a bunch of Sleeping Beauty mine turquoise ... actually, it was probably tailings because it wasn't exactly clean ... an amalgam of turquoise and something extremely hard. It took many hours of grinding with that silicon carbide masonry saw blade.

 

[Dave Mueller]

You can grind pony beads (first picture) using a $20 Black & Decker coffee grinder and inlay them with thin CA. Then they can be turned flush just like wood with any tool. The second picture is a mesquite bowl with voids filled with ground pony beads (turquoise colored plus a little black for interest) that was done by Gale Yarrow in our College Station, TX club. The small mulberry bowl is one I did. If you are going to be at SWAT next week, I'll be doing a demo on the technique.

 

[Bill Boehme]

You can grind pony beads (first picture) using a $20 Black & Decker coffee grinder and inlay them with thin CA. Then they can be turned flush just like wood with any tool. The second picture is a mesquite bowl with voids filled with ground pony beads (turquoise colored plus a little black for interest) that was done by Gale Yarrow in our College Station, TX club. The small mulberry bowl is one I did. If you are going to be at SWAT next week, I'll be doing a demo on the technique.....

Do you think that a little black CA drizzled in the crushed turquoise colored beads to create some thin dark lines would work? I have thought about it, but never actually tried it yet.

 

[Dave Mueller]

Never thought about it, but I do have some black CA and can try.

 

[Lamar Wright]

You can grind pony beads (first picture) using a $20 Black & Decker coffee grinder and inlay them with thin CA. Then they can be turned flush just like wood with any tool. The second picture is a mesquite bowl with voids filled with ground pony beads (turquoise colored plus a little black for interest) that was done by Gale Yarrow in our College Station, TX club. The small mulberry bowl is one I did. If you are going to be at SWAT next week, I'll be doing a demo on the technique.

View attachment 23133 View attachment 23134 View attachment 23135

That's a very good idea Charlie.

 

[tdrice]

I fill the void proud with turquoise then saturate it with thin CA then sand off the excess with 3M flexible diamond disks. They are available at sandingglove.com. I get a perfect joint. (You can also use other minerals such as coral.)

 

[Lamar Wright]

I fill the void proud with turquoise then saturate it with thin CA then sand off the excess with 3M flexible diamond disks. They are available at sandingglove.com. I get a perfect joint. (You can also use other minerals such as coral.)

Thanks tdrice for this information. What size discs do you use and do you use it with your hand drill?

 

[Mike Johnson]

Milliput 2-part epoxy putty comes in several different colors and is easy to use for inlay work.
You can also add certain types of pigments to epoxy to attain colored inlays.
Acrylic pigments can have a negative effect on curing times and strength of the product.
Most epoxy products will detail how much inert material can be added to a mix before it
will negatively impact the end product. Testing a small amount of material is the best practice
when creating a new pigmented blend for inlay work.

 

[John Turpin]

If you are going to be at SWAT next week, I'll be doing a demo on the technique.

I've already got that session circled on my schedule!

 

[Bill Boehme]

I've already got that session circled on my schedule!

Dave did a dry run at our club several months ago and it is definitely worth attending. I might drop in to say howdy. I haven't had time to peruse the schedule yet ... maybe I'll do that while driving down to Waco on Thursday.

 

[Andy Chen]

Dave did a dry run at our club several months ago and it is definitely worth attending. I might drop in to say howdy. I haven't had time to peruse the schedule yet ... maybe I'll do that while driving down to Waco on Thursday.

I hope to see you in Waco after you drive down there while checking the rotation schedule, Bill.

 

[Andy Chen]

Thanks to Dave Mueller's encouragement I have incorporated pony beads into some of my segmented pieces. I will have a couple of them in the instant gallery at the SWAT symposium next weekend.

 

[Andy Chen]

Hello turners, I have a question about inlay material used in inclusions on plates and bowls. When mixing lets say, crushed turquoise with a clear epoxy and once it drys after you put the mix into the inclusion, what should you use to sand the hard material with? I saw one utube video of a turner using a hand grinder with a diamond blade to cut the turquoise with. For those turners that use inlay regularly, what do you use in this process?

I don't know how much turquoise you are inlaying. For small amounts, you can just sand with sandpaper. Stephen Hatcher is the guru of inlaying minerals and he gives you everything you need to know (http://www.stephenhatcher.com/). You've got a challenge if you have a lot of inlay because sanding is not practical. I tried to incorporate minerals into my segmented turning in which case sanding would not work. I thought if I used softer minerals then I should be able to use carbide tools (which has a hardness of ~9 on the Mohs hardness scale) to turn. I did manage to do this in this bowl shown in the first picture with lapis lazuli (hardness 5 - 5.5, a tad softer than turquoise) but it cost me more than $100 worth of carbide cutters. In the second picture I used pony beads as Dave Mueller suggested and it cut like butter.


I have not given up on minerals though. At the Kansas City AAW symposium this year there was a company called Blackline from S Africa selling diamond cutters. Since diamond is the hardest material known to man, I hope it can cut my embedded minerals. I will give you a followup after I get a chance to try these cutters out.

 

[Lamar Wright]

I don't know how much turquoise you are inlaying. For small amounts, you can just sand with sandpaper. Stephen Hatcher is the guru of inlaying minerals and he gives you everything you need to know (http://www.stephenhatcher.com/). You've got a challenge if you have a lot of inlay because sanding is not practical. I tried to incorporate minerals into my segmented turning in which case sanding would not work. I thought if I used softer minerals then I should be able to use carbide tools (which has a hardness of ~9 on the Mohs hardness scale) to turn. I did manage to do this in this bowl shown in the first picture with lapis lazuli (hardness 5 - 5.5, a tad softer than turquoise) but it cost me more than $100 worth of carbide cutters. In the second picture I used pony beads as Dave Mueller suggested and it cut like butter.
View attachment 23155 View attachment 23156

I have not given up on minerals though. At the Kansas City AAW symposium this year there was a company called Blackline from S Africa selling diamond cutters. Since diamond is the hardest material known to man, I hope it can cut my embedded minerals. I will give you a followup after I get a chance to try these cutters out.

Andy, those are two beautiful bowls indeed! Your inlay work is outstanding.

 

[Lamar Wright]

Andy, those are two beautiful bowls indeed! Your inlay work is outstanding.

I don't know how much turquoise you are inlaying. For small amounts, you can just sand with sandpaper. Stephen Hatcher is the guru of inlaying minerals and he gives you everything you need to know (http://www.stephenhatcher.com/). You've got a challenge if you have a lot of inlay because sanding is not practical. I tried to incorporate minerals into my segmented turning in which case sanding would not work. I thought if I used softer minerals then I should be able to use carbide tools (which has a hardness of ~9 on the Mohs hardness scale) to turn. I did manage to do this in this bowl shown in the first picture with lapis lazuli (hardness 5 - 5.5, a tad softer than turquoise) but it cost me more than $100 worth of carbide cutters. In the second picture I used pony beads as Dave Mueller suggested and it cut like butter.
View attachment 23155 View attachment 23156

I have not given up on minerals though. At the Kansas City AAW symposium this year there was a company called Blackline from S Africa selling diamond cutters. Since diamond is the hardest material known to man, I hope it can cut my embedded minerals. I will give you a followup after I get a chance to try these cutters out.

Hi Andy, I am practicing with some powdered turquoise mixing with clear epoxy for the binder and it sands good with silicon carbide sanding discs. I really like the results. I use the hook & loop 5" discs.

 

[John Torchick]

Two things here:
1. Pony beads look like I could get them at Hobby Lobby. Correct?
2. Andy, is the second turning made of Corian?
Thanks for the pictures and the great information. Need to take my turnings up a notch.

 

[Andy Chen]

Two things here:
1. Pony beads look like I could get them at Hobby Lobby. Correct?
2. Andy, is the second turning made of Corian?
Thanks for the pictures and the great information. Need to take my turnings up a notch.

Yes, John, you can get pony beads at Hobby Lobby. I order them from ponybeadstore.com. They have better selection and the prices are better. I cast them in epoxy (Smooth-On EpoxAcast 690, because of its long pot life and clarity) but Dave Muller (see posts earlier in this thread) who introduced me to pony beads, uses Alumilite with great success.

And yes, the second turning is made of Corian. It's easier to work with when you try to incorporate non-wood material, like minerals and pony beads because it's stable with regard to moisture.

 

[tdrice]

Lamar,
I use my Grex pneumatic sander with a two inch pad. a drill will work fine.