Interest level in wireless remote control for lathe operation

[Paul Paukstelis]

I have almost as much fun building various gadgets to enhance the woodturning experience as I do in actual turning. I've recently prototyped a wireless remote for my lathe and I have really been enjoying the freedom that having a start/stop and speed control very close to where I can reach them at all times provides.

I am curious how much interested there would be in something like this from the community in general (should I decide to make more).

Essentially there is a main unit with an LCD display that functions as a controller for the VFD. It does start/stop, forward/reverse, brake, and directly controls 0-10V for speed control. It is a single rotary encoder/button combo. The knob controls speed, a single click runs forward, a long click runs in reverse, and any click when it is running will stop it. The main unit is connects to a remote that has the same encoder controls. It is local (not Wifi) connection between the two devices directly. It also has the option of functioning as a tachometer and the main controller has an embedded accelerometer that can be used to automatically stop the lathe when there is an extreme unbalanced condition (I haven't worked out the best model for that yet, but it is fully configurable in the settings). The remote has embedded magnets on the back so it can be attached pretty much anywhere on the lathe and recharges through USB-C.

I would like to hear if you think this sounds interesting and if you think there would be general interest among turners.

 

[Brian Gustin]

What happens if the remote fails or loses charge? Do the lathe keep running?

Seems like too much clicking to remember, rather see separate buttons for each function (Run Fwd, Run Rev, Stop, in addition to RPM settings) - Though the auto stop feature (Extreme un balance, major catch, sudden change in load - I.E. a piece breaking apart or coming off the lathe) might be nice to have though - Sounds like something that might be very interesting for handicapped/ Seated Turners as well as those that tend to do the more risky type turnings, though...

But again - main thing would be what fail safe is there is the remote control suddenly cannot connect to the control unit (Lose charge, WiFi /Bluetooth interference, or other communication failure) probably should have programming to auto stop the lathe in that event too, for safety...

Edit to add: Don't take it as interest on my part though - I rarely if ever get myself into situations where I won't have ready access to the controls, but if I ever did start doing that, it MIGHT be something worth looking at..

 

[Paul Paukstelis]

What happens if the remote fails or loses charge? Do the lathe keep running?

It is an option that exists in the settings, though I am not sure it is particularly useful or a real safety issue. The main controller is always active, so even if the remote fails or dies, you can always do whatever is needed on the main controller. If the main controller were to die, it would stop the lathe.

Seems like too much clicking to remember, rather see separate buttons for each function (Run Fwd, Run Rev, Stop, in addition to RPM settings) - Though the auto stop feature (Extreme un balance, major catch, sudden change in load - I.E. a piece breaking apart or coming off the lathe) might be nice to have though - Sounds like something that might be very interesting for handicapped/ Seated Turners as well as those that tend to do the more risky type turnings, though...

It might seem that way, but 99% of the time it is just a single button click that does exactly what you want (run forward or stop if already running). I find it is very clean and there can be no accidental presses of the wrong button, regardless of how the remote is oriented. Maybe it takes one session to get use to if you use reverse a lot, but I pretty much only use reverse for speeding removal of chucks.

But again - main thing would be what fail safe is there is the remote control suddenly cannot connect to the control unit (Lose charge, WiFi /Bluetooth interference, or other communication failure) probably should have programming to auto stop the lathe in that event too, for safety...

There is an option to ping the remote every X seconds and stop the lathe if it doesn't respond, but I simply haven't found that I've ever used that feature. A single battery charge on the remote for me lasts a very long time (more than a month).

Some other features (adjustable in the settings menu):

Remote timeout will send the remote into deep sleep after X minutes if it doesn't send any new commands. This saves battery life if you forget about it and leave it on.

Reset power output after X minutes. More than once with my old controller I was running at 100% output the day before and I forgot to check the speed pot before pushing run. Whoops. This makes sure that after some period of inactivity you are at 0% output.

The controllers do not connect to WIFI for normal usage, but they can be put into network mode if needed to download new firmware.

 

[Brian Gustin]

It is an option that exists in the settings, though I am not sure it is particularly useful or a real safety issue. The main controller is always active, so even if the remote fails or dies, you can always do whatever is needed on the main controller.

Yeah my thought was, if you needed the remote to do an emergency stop (Say the piece you were working on started coming apart or shifted loose in the chuck or between centers) and suddenly the remote wouldn't make it stop because it lost connection or ran out of charge (is there anything to indicate to you when charge is low?) If you got to depend on the remote Vs the physical controls, you could end up in a bad spot (Such as having to reach around or reach over the spinning piece) and no way to shut the lathe off. That was my concern and the safety issue I was trying to point out. (Complacency after getting used to using the remote alone, and when you need it most it doesn't work!)

Sort of like getting a remote box for your lathe and a wire within it breaks or switch in the remote fails, etc. Me, I'd rather have some sort of fail-safe programming so if a command and control component were to fail, the lathe would shut down until that component were fixed/restored. (AFAIK, most lathes don't do that either - what if the stop switch failed with the lathe running? Is there some sort of fail-safe on modern lathes for an event like that?) - My Harbor Freeight lathe (old reeves drive style) would shut off or quit running if the switch failed... I always assumed (until now when I suddenly wonder) that if a stop switch (on machines where it is separate) were to fail, is there some fail-safge that would shut off the lathe entirely until fixed? Otherwise how would one shut off the lathe, other than unplugging or flipping a breaker...?

The controllers do not connect to WIFI for normal usage, but they can be put into network mode if needed to download new firmware.

Well I said Wi-Fi as a way of describing the wireless connection - Bluetooth I also call it WiFi (less typing, y'see?)

Just curiosity here, and offering up some points to think about if you wanted to commercialize it in some way..

 

[Paul Paukstelis]

Yeah my thought was, if you needed the remote to do an emergency stop (Say the piece you were working on started coming apart or shifted loose in the chuck or between centers) and suddenly the remote wouldn't make it stop because it lost connection or ran out of charge (is there anything to indicate to you when charge is low?) If you got to depend on the remote Vs the physical controls, you could end up in a bad spot (Such as having to reach around or reach over the spinning piece) and no way to shut the lathe off. That was my concern and the safety issue I was trying to point out. (Complacency after getting used to using the remote alone, and when you need it most it doesn't work!)

Sort of like getting a remote box for your lathe and a wire within it breaks or switch in the remote fails, etc. Me, I'd rather have some sort of fail-safe programming so if a command and control component were to fail, the lathe would shut down until that component were fixed/restored. (AFAIK, most lathes don't do that either - what if the stop switch failed with the lathe running? Is there some sort of fail-safe on modern lathes for an event like that?) - My Harbor Freeight lathe (old reeves drive style) would shut off or quit running if the switch failed... I always assumed (until now when I suddenly wonder) that if a stop switch (on machines where it is separate) were to fail, is there some fail-safge that would shut off the lathe entirely until fixed? Otherwise how would one shut off the lathe, other than unplugging or flipping a breaker...?

Well I said Wi-Fi as a way of describing the wireless connection - Bluetooth I also call it WiFi (less typing, y'see?)

Just curiosity here, and offering up some points to think about if you wanted to commercialize it in some way..

I do very much appreciate the insight and questions. I've tried to think about "everything" but I fully realize that I can't see it all and getting feedback from others helps tremendously.

IMO, an emergency situation is the job for an E-stop. I don't think a remote (wired or wireless) should be relied upon in that situation (though the accelerometer does provide some additional safety in that regard).

It would be possible to measure the battery voltage, but the real problem there is that the cut-off from "working" to "not working" is very sharp. I could have it flash an LED a few times when the battery is low, but it would just shutdown not too long after that.

It is a bit of semantics, but I think it is important to note that the communication between the remote and main controller doesn't use WiFi and is not internet connected. I have a large number of IoT devices and I keep them isolated as much as possible. I just don't want people thinking that you would have to connect to the internet to use the system.

 

[Paul M. Kaplowitz]

I don't see the advantage of having to pick up a remote control when the lathe controls are on the lathe right in front of me.

 

[hockenbery]

I don't see the advantage of having to pick up a remote control when the lathe controls are on the lathe right in front of me.

I don’t have to move controls….

I like having controls on the tailstock end when I’m hollowing.
The controls I like best are the ONEWAY pendulum. Controls at near eye level can be swing to head stock tailstock or in between.
Also the upright can be mounted on either side of the ways.

I also have second magnetic switch. On many turnings I switch back and forth from headstock side to tailstock side to make cuts.
I like having controls on both sides so I don’t have to reach across the work to turn off the lathe.

A wireless remote seems to be a mistake carried out to perfection!

My guess is they would sell okay and create an epidemic of buyers remorse.

 

[Tom Albrecht]

I see that remote as unnecessary, a waste of space, and a distraction. Heck, I can rarely find the remote for my TV when I'm in the middle of a show.
My lathe has a wired remote with a magnet so I can move it from one end to the other, and anywhere in between as I please. But I keep it on the tailstock end most of the time.

 

[Paul Paukstelis]

My guess is they would sell okay and create an epidemic of buyers remorse.

So very similar to 50% of all turning gizmos and doodads.

 

[Paul Paukstelis]

I see that remote as unnecessary, a waste of space, and a distraction. Heck, I can rarely find the remote for my TV when I'm in the middle of a show.
My lathe has a wired remote with a magnet so I can move it from one end to the other, and anywhere in between as I please. But I keep it on the tailstock end most of the time.

I guess I don't quite understand how my remote is a waste of space, but yours is not? My remote also has magnets as well, just no wire.

 

[Mike Pindzola]

Would any of this be open sourced ?

 

[Paul Paukstelis]

Would any of this be open sourced ?

Yes. When I have a version that is designed to be more general I'll release everything. Right now I've built it around the requirements/features for my VFD. I am trying to use readily available modules (ESP32 devkits, MPU6050, etc.) to keep the PCB designs simple and parts easily replaceable.

 

[Alan Heffernan]

@Paul Paukstelis
Interesting concepts you are working with here. Don't let the naysayers slow you down too much.

I think an issue may be that for many folks their ability or willingness to try to get this piggy backed onto the VFD. Most of the woodturners I know are not adept at working with VFD's. That may drive you nuts trying to help folks remotely get this installed.

Perhaps develop a prototype for a particular lathe model where this may be useful? Many lathes do not have pendants or remote off/on switches. Find the niche and go for it.

 

[Richard Coers]

When I'm in full production bowl turning, EVERYTHING gets covered with curls. I envision having to wear the remote around my neck to be able to quickly find a loose item and hit an emergency button. I'd probably need a magnet on the back to stick it somewhere on the lathe, kinda like that big box on the end of a moveable steel post on my Oneway. But I do see the advantages.

 

[Paul Paukstelis]

I think an issue may be that for many folks their ability or willingness to try to get this piggy backed onto the VFD. Most of the woodturners I know are not adept at working with VFD's. That may drive you nuts trying to help folks remotely get this installed.

Perhaps develop a prototype for a particular lathe model where this may be useful? Many lathes do not have pendants or remote off/on switches. Find the niche and go for it.

Yes, I fully recognize that VFD hookups would be the greatest challenge. In some cases it will also require changing VFD settings which a lot of folks might not be comfortable with.
Maybe this forum could help identify some of models that I could target, or at least the most common VFDs that are out there. If anyone uses a Lenze AC Tech SMV, I already have that prototyped!

 

[Paul Paukstelis]

When I'm in full production bowl turning, EVERYTHING gets covered with curls. I envision having to wear the remote around my neck to be able to quickly find a loose item and hit an emergency button. I'd probably need a magnet on the back to stick it somewhere on the lathe, kinda like that big box on the end of a moveable steel post on my Oneway. But I do see the advantages.

The remote has magnets so you can stick it pretty much anywhere. It also has an LED that can be set to flash every X seconds to show that it is on (or to help find it in shavings!).

 

[hockenbery]

Anyone know why nova discontinued their remote

NOVA DVR WIRELESS REMOTE II (SKU 55522 AND 71079) - NOVA, a Teknatool Brand

Harness the flexibility, power and intelligence of your NOVA DVR Lathe.This innovative accessory is designed to enhance your Wood Turning experience with your NOVA DVR Lathe. This remote gives you control at your fingertips when - Turning large work. No more reaching around to the headstock for...

www.teknatool.com

They also had a watch like device.

 

[Paul Paukstelis]

I would be interested to hear from people that used the Nova remote. For the looks of it, I would have two main criticisms. It is too small. I wouldn't want to hold it in my hand while turning. Second, push button speed control seems somewhat cumbersome to me, but maybe you get used to it*. Having a pot/encoder to adjust the speed feels like there is more control with less work.

*- My Stubby750 came from David Fry and had a replacement VFD. The pendant was never wired up, so he must have been changing speeds by pushing the up/down arrows on the VFD. I very quickly built a wired remote to fix that.

 

[robo hippy]

For me, no interest. #1 reason is that any remote like that will need batteries, and I don't use batteries unless I have to.

robo hippy

 

[Stan Pressner]

Yes, I fully recognize that VFD hookups would be the greatest challenge. In some cases it will also require changing VFD settings which a lot of folks might not be comfortable with.
Maybe this forum could help identify some of models that I could target, or at least the most common VFDs that are out there. If anyone uses a Lenze AC Tech SMV, I already have that prototyped!

Paul,, I would love to see one for the Laguna 18/36. There is no wired remote box for them and I really want controls at the tailstock end.

 

[Paul Paukstelis]

Paul,, I would love to see one for the Laguna 18/36. There is no wired remote box for them and I really want controls at the tailstock end.

It could be done. It gets a little tricky figuring out how to tie into the existing wiring. From a first glance at the wiring diagram in the manual it would be possible to keep the e-stop functioning, but you couldn't use the main controls and secondary remote simultaneously.

 

[Stan Pressner]

It could be done. It gets a little tricky figuring out how to tie into the existing wiring. From a first glance at the wiring diagram in the manual it would be possible to keep the e-stop functioning, but you couldn't use the main controls and secondary remote simultaneously.

Thanks Paul. It seems to me that even if there was an a/b switch to choose, it would still be good.

 

[Rusty Nesmith]

My lathe came with a remote pendant as many newer lathes are these days.

 

[Richard Coers]

The remote has magnets so you can stick it pretty much anywhere. It also has an LED that can be set to flash every X seconds to show that it is on (or to help find it in shavings!).

Wonderful !

 

[Gabriel Hoff]

Maybe your target audience should be with clubs who need to regulate their lathes when it comes to safety. You know if someone is doing something unsafe, the coordinator could have a "master" remote to control all of the lathes. If they sense something dangerous they could shut it down faster and quieter then yelling or running over. You could program the remote to be used on separate lathes of the same manufacturer, say, the Jet 1221VS. Would also work for shows or symposiums too. I will say never get rid of the physical stop and start buttons mounted on the lathe, this remote would only be optional. I don't know if it would be popular, but your idea is a great one!

 

[Paul Paukstelis]

Maybe your target audience should be with clubs who need to regulate there lathes when it comes to safety. You know if someone is doing something unsafe, the coordinator could have a "master" remote to control all of the lathes. If they sense something dangerous they could shut it down faster and quieter then yelling or running over. You could program the remote to be used on separate lathes of the same manufacturer, say, the Jet 1221VS. Would also work for shows or symposiums too. I will say never get rid of the physical stop and start buttons mounted on the lathe, this remote would only be optional. I don't know if it would be popular, but your idea is a great one!

That's an interesting idea. It would certainly be possible to do something like that. Each remote could control up to 20 lathes.

 

[Michael Brown]

I am going to be the contrasting voice today. I actually love the idea of a smart connection to the lathe. I started on a Jet1015 and belt swapping was frustrating, so I installed a motor out of a Nova comet II. I had to build up a new assembly for the regulator and it was so much fun, my eyes drifted to my router table... Which will soon have tethered speed and height adjustment using a stepper motor and rotory encoder.
The paddle switch on my Jet1640 is occasionally losing contact within the terminals and I've been contemplating moving to momentary buttons for fwd/rev driving relays, but your idea sounds fun.

Mikey -

 

[Timothy White]

If I’m not mistaken the OP is asking about “WIRELESS REMOTES“
I have Nova DVR and own both WIRELESS REMOTES that were made for this lathe. They both worked well but they were more of a gimmick than a necessary or even a convenient piece of equipment
they both allowed the on/ off and rpm up and down feature but nothing else.
The Nova DVR allows you to set the lathe RPM before starting the motor. The read out for this is on the control panel on the headstock also other features unique to the DVR were not accessible through either remote. In my opinion these remotes were an answer searching for a problem.
the pendant style remote is a more practical idea, but even this idea has some unwanted inconveniences built in.

 

[Paul Paukstelis]

If I’m not mistaken the OP is asking about “WIRELESS REMOTES“
I have Nova DVR and own both WIRELESS REMOTES that were made for this lathe. They both worked well but they were more of a gimmick than a necessary or even a convenient piece of equipment
they both allowed the on/ off and rpm up and down feature but nothing else.
The Nova DVR allows you to set the lathe RPM before starting the motor. The read out for this is on the control panel on the headstock also other features unique to the DVR were not accessible through either remote. In my opinion these remotes were an answer searching for a problem.
the pendant style remote is a more practical idea, but even this idea has some unwanted inconveniences built in.

These remotes were mentioned earlier in the thread. It does seem to me they were too small. I'm curious how you found adjusting speed by up and down arrow on the remote. The version I have built uses a rotary encoder to adjust speed. This just seems like it is much more responsive than having to push a button many times.

 

[Timothy White]

These remotes were mentioned earlier in the thread. It does seem to me they were too small. I'm curious how you found adjusting speed by up and down arrow on the remote. The version I have built uses a rotary encoder to adjust speed. This just seems like it is much more responsive than having to push a button many times.

The way the rpm buttons worked. press he button once and the rpm was adjusted by 5 RPMs. Press and hold the RPMs would move in 100 RPM increments.
The second remote Came with a new control panel that has a rotary encoder that will adjust rpm’s 10 rpm normal press in and turn = 100 rpm’s per click. This feature alone was worth the price of the remote and control board. This control board also had 10 programmable speeds that allowed quick speed changes quickly. The remote allowed none of this nor did it have an rpm readout.

 

[Paul Paukstelis]

The way the rpm buttons worked. press he button once and the rpm was adjusted by 5 RPMs. Press and hold the RPMs would move in 100 RPM increments.
The second remote Came with a new control panel that has a rotary encoder that will adjust rpm’s 10 rpm normal press in and turn = 100 rpm’s per click. This feature alone was worth the price of the remote and control board. This control board also had 10 programmable speeds that allowed quick speed changes quickly. The remote allowed none of this nor did it have an rpm readout.

Interesting. Thanks for that information. That different sensitivities depending on if the encoder is in/out is a neat idea. I think I'll be able to incorporate that into my hardware as well!

 

[Jim Woods]

Paul, I think you have a good idea, but I would seem the purchaser would need the tech capability of wiring into the main control circuits of their lathe. I have wanted to add a remote to me Grizzly G0766 lathe, which has capability for wired remote. I think it needs an A/B switch , disabling the main panel rheostat while the remote rheostat is operational. It seems yours only eliminates the wire if I only want forward/neutral/reverse and speed control? Good luck with your endeavor.

 

[Paul Paukstelis]

Paul, I think you have a good idea, but I would seem the purchaser would need the tech capability of wiring into the main control circuits of their lathe. I have wanted to add a remote to me Grizzly G0766 lathe, which has capability for wired remote. I think it needs an A/B switch , disabling the main panel rheostat while the remote rheostat is operational. It seems yours only eliminates the wire if I only want forward/neutral/reverse and speed control? Good luck with your endeavor.

Thanks for the feedback, Jim. I agree that being able to hook it up may be a limitation for some, particularly if VFD programming were required. Some cases are easier than others. I hooked one up to a Powermatic 3520C today and it did not require any VFD modifications other than connecting wires to the terminal block. An A/B switch is quite possible, or even automatic switching (as soon as you activate the remote it would use those controls over the main control).

What I really need are a bunch of lathe wiring diagrams and their respective VFD manuals. So if anyone is holding on to some, send them my way!

 

[Dennis Weiner]

I bought the Oneway 2436 with a remote thinking I may use it while deep hollowing. Perhaps, I have used it a few times in 25 years of ownership. It is wired and magnetic. I have it attached to the back of the lathe in the event of a catastrophic event. That being said, If I didn't have this setup, for safety reasons I would probably like a wireless remote emergency stop in my pocket. One never knows when something like this may assist in injury prevention or help you out of a precarious situation.

On another note, my compressor and lathe use a 240 20A receptacle. I thought about controlling them up to my Wifi with Amazon Alexa. I already have her controlling my oil core heater in the shop so I can warm up the shop from upstairs while having breakfast in the morning. So why not add the compressor which I always forget to turn off until my wife hears it later while she is sleeping? The lathe could also be added. The problem is I have not found a plug 240 20A that is WiFi Alexa-ready. There are relays sold on Amazon that are Wifi Alexa-ready that can actuate a relay that can control the voltage to 240 lines. I may pursue this. Has anybody accomplished Home automation with 240-volt devices that would like to share wiring methods?

 

[Paul Paukstelis]

I bought the Oneway 2436 with a remote thinking I may use it while deep hollowing. Perhaps, I have used it a few times in 25 years of ownership. It is wired and magnetic. I have it attached to the back of the lathe in the event of a catastrophic event. That being said, If I didn't have this setup, for safety reasons I would probably like a wireless remote emergency stop in my pocket. One never knows when something like this may assist in injury prevention or help you out of a precarious situation.

On another note, my compressor and lathe use a 240 20A receptacle. I thought about controlling them up to my Wifi with Amazon Alexa. I already have her controlling my oil core heater in the shop so I can warm up the shop from upstairs while having breakfast in the morning. So why not add the compressor which I always forget to turn off until my wife hears it later while she is sleeping? The lathe could also be added. The problem is I have not found a plug 240 20A that is WiFi Alexa-ready. There are relays sold on Amazon that are Wifi Alexa-ready that can actuate a relay that can control the voltage to 240 lines. I may pursue this. Has anybody accomplished Home automation with 240-volt devices that would like to share wiring methods?

I do a lot of home (and shop) automation as well. The 240V 20A Wifi plugin receptacle is very elusive. Anything in the 20-30A range you will find as direct wire. The wiring is very straightforward, but you are effectively replacing your existing receptacle.

Because a lot of device come with on/off remotes, one of my solutions is to pull the circuit board out the remote and hook it up to a wifi-capable microprocessor that I already have running on USB power. This allows sending commands to the microprocessor to turn on/off various devices (filtration, vacuum,etc.). However, I think that discussion may need its own thread.