Is the woody fraternity slow adopters of technolgy?

[hughie]

Looking back over many years at what was standard practice and usage in the engineering field.
Then looking at woodturning and the advent of say 4 jaw self centring chucks by Nova in 1988, even if they did get the scroll backwards. Then use of HSS for cutting tools , not sure when they came out . But all, something of a paradigm shift in the way we went about turning and sharpening and yet existent in the engineering fields for decades if not longer. Later the use of TCT of tungsten carbide cutting tools. OK in the beginning grain structure of the early carbide tools didn't lend well to producing a fine edge. Now we have ultra sonics for wall thickness detection, something thats been around in pressure vessel maintenance for decades also
But I remember making some very basic carbide woodturning tools for my Dad in the late 60's early 70's and certainly at that time carbide tooling was in wide use in engineering. HSS was the norm in engineering in just about every shop across the country. I guess the woody folk are slow adopters.

 

[Odie]

Hi Hughie......

Is it possible the slowness to adapt to new technologies among woodturners has something to do with the ultimate purpose being entirely different than industrial applications that focus on the bottom line.....the profit motive? Woodturning, in perspective, is basically motivated by an artistic interest, rather than making a product to compete in a capitalistic environment.

Possibly staircase turnings, or bowls meant to sell in bulk.....might be more applicable to your theory, than someone searching for an artistic outlet in their home shop.......?

-----odie-----

 

[Don Wattenhofer]

The common chucks used on metal working lathes has been for many years before 1988 was a 3 jaw scroll chuck and a 4 jaw independent chuck so all that Nova did was adapt a known technology to wood turning.
The first Sorby 3/4" HSS bowl gouge I purchased in 1982 while on a trip to Coventry England to start up a carburizing furnace that I had designed the control system for.

 

[hughie]

Hi Hughie......

Is it possible the slowness to adapt to new technologies among woodturners has something to do with the ultimate purpose being entirely different than industrial applications that focus on the bottom line.....the profit motive? Woodturning, in perspective, is basically motivated by an artistic interest, rather than making a product to compete in a capitalistic environment.

Possibly staircase turnings, or bowls meant to sell in bulk.....might be more applicable to your theory, than someone searching for an artistic outlet in their home shop.......?

-----odie-----

Having spent many years in R@D I have learnt the value of lateral thinking and perhaps this aspect is what has been lacking, also I suspect many of the woody folk may not have an engineering back ground. Volume work, yeah that makes sense. But given that some of these changes are now universal and standard ie HSS tools, designated chucks on lathes there is an obvious market for them.

I guess the point I am making is that many of these changes could have been made much earlier. After all how many engineers have taken up wood turning? There must be a reasonable number given that they form a decent sized number in the USA https://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2016/employment-and-wages-of-engineers-in-2015.htm
Where I live its generally regarded as something a retiree gets up to, although I dont agree with this thinking. It could well be the case that the industrial case compared to the hobbyist doesn't have or get much traction.
Still I find it curious tho'

 

[hughie]

The common chucks used on metal working lathes has been for many years before 1988 was a 3 jaw scroll chuck and a 4 jaw independent chuck so all that Nova did was adapt a known technology to wood turning.
The first Sorby 3/4" HSS bowl gouge I purchased in 1982 while on a trip to Coventry England to start up a carburizing furnace that I had designed the control system for.

Precisely, Nova and some lateral thinking. I just wonder why it took so long, as the changes seem so obvious now. If we have any professional wood turners here maybe they can chime in with some history

 

[Brian Gustin]

I would tend to argue that it may be more likely down to woodturning (and woodworking) becoming more mainstream , particularly with the beginnings of the AAW or at least in that era (along with the beginnings of the computer age and internet) - Before, it was more likely the "experts" were making money at their activities and looked on sharing their tools and techniques as a "trade secret" that, were they to give it away for nothing, they'd cut in to their livelihood..Hence, Apprenticeships (just barely this side of indentured servitude) ... But then the internet came along.. the AAW... Woodworkers guilds began to open up to hobbyists, not just proven professionals (likely due to declining numbers?)

- In a similar vein the Outdoor Power Equipment repair industry is seeing rapidly aging & retiring ownership with fewer and fewer "youngsters" coming into the trade, so it may come as no surprise that their trade magazine(s) can now be had or subscribed to by hobbyist types with the interest... So, I see similarities there..

Along with that influx of information sharing would naturally come the sharing of ideas, techniques and discoveries that one or more folks came along and turned into a business.

Upshot: not necessarily slow adopters, but just limited by lack of "connections" out there - I would imagine that factories that automated much of woodworking tasks (cnc, etc) would have long since skipped past the tooling and chucking solutions that we hobbyists or even production turners consider Must-Have

 

[Monty Ivy]

I would tend to argue that it may be more likely down to woodturning (and woodworking) becoming more mainstream , particularly with the beginnings of the AAW or at least in that era (along with the beginnings of the computer age and internet) - Before, it was more likely the "experts" were making money at their activities and looked on sharing their tools and techniques as a "trade secret" that, were they to give it away for nothing, they'd cut in to their livelihood..Hence, Apprenticeships (just barely this side of indentured servitude) ... But then the internet came along.. the AAW... Woodworkers guilds began to open up to hobbyists, not just proven professionals (likely due to declining numbers?)

- In a similar vein the Outdoor Power Equipment repair industry is seeing rapidly aging & retiring ownership with fewer and fewer "youngsters" coming into the trade, so it may come as no surprise that their trade magazine(s) can now be had or subscribed to by hobbyist types with the interest... So, I see similarities there..

Along with that influx of information sharing would naturally come the sharing of ideas, techniques and discoveries that one or more folks came along and turned into a business.

Upshot: not necessarily slow adopters, but just limited by lack of "connections" out there - I would imagine that factories that automated much of woodworking tasks (cnc, etc) would have long since skipped past the tooling and chucking solutions that we hobbyists or even production turners consider Must-Have

I would add that any perceived adoption issues are not caused by luddite craftsman, but are more constrained by the industry itself. R&D costs money. People and businesses are not going to throw capital into a project (whiz bang new gadget) that does not promise a large return on investment. Sadly, woodturners are a small group compared to other segments of the market and get an equally small amount of capital investments.

 

[robo hippy]

Perhaps some of it comes from thinking that woodturning is more of a hobby than a profession. The bigger companies don't want to invest in small return hobby type projects. This hobby has really exploded in the time I have been involved, some 25 to maybe almost 30 years, can't remember....

robo hippy

 

[Kirk Amidon]

I think another factor may be that there is a move to doing things faster, which these days often means CNC or other mechanized work. Hand made is not main stream - to echo other comments it is mostly hobbyists. So much is now possible with computer controlled tools that was not possible not long ago.

What I see is still a lot of makers of specialized tools and products all looking for a share of their particular niche. There does not seem to yet be that one company which is acquiring a lot of them, which seems to inevitably happen in other hobbies, where there are a few very well entrenched companies and few boutique makers. Perhaps it is market size, perhaps it is due to so many different ways to solve issues.

 

[Doug Freeman]

Hobby vs industrial, low sales volumes of tools that don’t drive innovation. I’m impressed with what is available (vfd and dvr drive systems, pm tool steels, cupped carbide cutters/tools, etc) considering the low volumes. Thanks to some dedicated entrepreneurs determined to bring some of the industrial innovation to a hobby space we have quite a lot IMO.

Consider other primarily hobby based artistic activities and tech - painting, pottery, I’m sure there are more.

Another aspect, which has been discussed at length in other threads, is the human control of the tool or brush or whatever - much of tech is to remove labor, but the human skill with a tool or brush IS the essence of the activity - this will naturally limit the tech.

 

[Richard Coers]

You have to realize that decorative/artistic woodturning is just as new as these inventions. Of course woodturning was done in school and hobby shops after WWII, but before that leisure time was almost unheard of in the majority of agrarian worker economy. My Dad, born in 1923 didn't have a single hobby in his lifetime. Hobbies were a new invention as well. Before the big surge in turning started in the 80's, no one did natural edges, spalted wood, embellishments, pyrography, etc... It was purely utilitarian. A carbon steel scraper worked for everyone who wanted to make a 6" salad bowl. I started turning in 1985 and someone of my age would not have imagined what this craft would become. So why invent tools for a couple hundred people world wide? Once the numbers grew to a point when inventiveness and marketing could sell in volume, it took off. Before that only a fool would invent for woodturners. The big change in chucks was really just the jaws. All previous chucks were smooth. The major leap in carbide was polishing and alloys. Any carbide insert in the 70s would not be in the same league as inserts today.

 

[Steve Worcester]

Carbides were brought in for an easier learning curve. If you look at the Easy wood tools, they were the ones who brought that to the forefront. I would argue that was a commercial success, but the quality of finish is less than a gouge in capable hands. And now there are a bunch of knockoffs to Easy wood tools.
Jerry Glaser was the one that brought more exotic tool steels to the "masses" in the 60s with M2 then progressed into using powdered metals like V10 as well as flute designs that were better suited to faceplate turning.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Part of the alure of a lathe turned bowl, vase, ornament is the hand made and hand finished methods used in the crafting of the item.
If they knew the item was mass produced on an automated computerized machine it would not have the same value of a handcrafted item.
Kind of like comparing a hand painted art piece with a photographed image printed on paper, one has artistic value and the printed photo
not so much.

 

[Doug Rasmussen]

Part of the alure of a lathe turned bowl, vase, ornament is the hand made and hand finished methods used in the crafting of the item.
If they knew the item was mass produced on an automated computerized machine it would not have the same value of a handcrafted item.

Do you really think you can tell whether a piece is mass produced with automation (as in CNC) as opposed to hand turning? let's say for instance the piece has a series of beads to embellish it. Conventional wisdom would say you could spot the CNC'd part easily because of the part-to-part exactness of the spacing of the beads. Not necessarily though. It's trivial to introduce a randomness into the bead spacing. Maybe the bead spacing would have nominal value of .250". In the CNC code that spacing could be defined as .250 plus a random variable in the range of minus to plus .020". That's a trick that could create the kind of random spacing variation a hand turned part might have. There are a lot of tricks like this possible with late model PC based controllers with macro programming capability.

I know a good many of the high end stringed instrument makers have needed to go to CNC to stay afloat against global competition. One I know very well changed their advertising from "hand crafted" to "hand crafted quality". It might be offensive to some. it's the reality of business though.

 

[hockenbery]

Do you really think you can tell whether a piece is mass produced with automation (as in CNC) as opposed to hand turning? let's say for instance the piece has a series of beads to embellish it. Conventional wisdom would say you could spot the CNC'd part easily because of the part-to-part exactness of the spacing of the beads.

It is nearly impossible to tell how a well made piece was made.

I’ve seen bowls made with chain saws and abrasives that look turned.
Carved bowls that looked turned.

One bowl turner told me he put curves on his rims because customers started asking him what machine he used to get his rims so perfectly flat.

Most turners use some power tools on their work in addition to the lathe.

 

[robo hippy]

Al, that made me chuckle.... I got many comments about "How did you carve that bowl out like that? You couldn't have done that on a lathe because it isn't round."

robo hippy

 

[hockenbery]

Al, that made me chuckle.... I got many comments about "How did you carve that bowl out like that? You couldn't have done that on a lathe because it isn't round."

robo hippy

My Two favorites heard at shows I was doing.
1. A guy was explaining how natural edge bowls were all made with a hydraulic press to bend the wood into that oval shape
I decided to avoid that conversation.

2. not long after I started showing hollow forms a guy was studying one with a narrow opening. He kept saying “ you are really good”. My head is getting bigger and bigger. Then he says “will you please show me the glue joint? I’ve been a carpenter for 25 years. I know the only way you can make something like this is split it apart, hollow the two parts and glue it back together”.
After my head quickly returned to normal size, I told him about the hollowing tools and that most of the time was spent getting the shavings out through the hole with compressed air using a long nossel. We had a nice little chat about his work and mine.

 

[robo hippy]

When they ask about hollow forms, they always stick their fingers in, and I tell them I have hooked tools that are bent like your finger....

robo hippy

 

[Donna Frazier]

Do you really think you can tell whether a piece is mass produced with automation (as in CNC) as opposed to hand turning? let's say for instance the piece has a series of beads to embellish it. Conventional wisdom would say you could spot the CNC'd part easily because of the part-to-part exactness of the spacing of the beads. Not necessarily though. It's trivial to introduce a randomness into the bead spacing. Maybe the bead spacing would have nominal value of .250". In the CNC code that spacing could be defined as .250 plus a random variable in the range of minus to plus .020". That's a trick that could create the kind of random spacing variation a hand turned part might have. There are a lot of tricks like this possible with late model PC based controllers with macro programming capability.

I know a good many of the high end stringed instrument makers have needed to go to CNC to stay afloat against global competition. One I know very well changed their advertising from "hand crafted" to "hand crafted quality". It might be offensive to some. it's the reality of business though.

I don't think a CNC has the capacity to distinguish between all the various subtitles in grain that we woodturners can. The various grain differences between soft and hard wood, domestic vs. imported. The changes within a single piece as you come across a knot or inclusion.
From what I have heard, I also don't believe a CNC machine can achieve the crisp detail that a master woodturner can straight off the tool.
And for small custom work... CNC programming may be too labor intensive.

 

[Doug Rasmussen]

Donna, thanks for the interest.

I believe you're saying the CNC can't differentiate between different grain patterns and change its cutting style as a hand turner might do. Take a close look at the first part of this youtube video of a CNC lathe turning a spindle. Watch as the tool is able to turn with the grain and against the grain.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPuOThZm4ys


The tool used has a small included angle with a razor sharp, small nose radius along with a high positive rake (this tool is upside down, but that has nothing to do with its ability to turn). A hand turner would not turn against the grain, or if they did the results might be severe tearout or catches. A good deal of what the CNC can do has to do with rigidity of the machines. Knots aren't a problem. The harder the wood the better the turned finish. With production spindle turning the pieces are not hand sanded to correct tearout because there very seldom is any.

Sometimes programming to do a thin wall bowl it's best to attempt to always cut with the grain since thin walls are fragile . A program might have to be specific to a piece of wood's characteristics.

As to crispness, not a problem at all. Look at the crispness of OT work, so crisp and clean cut no sanding needs to be done. Same situation as CNC, a small nose radius tool is used to achieve the crispness even cutting against the grain. IMO, the best hand turner would be hard pressed to approach the crispness that comes with OT or CNC lathe work.

Labor intensive......no, at least no more intensive than for a talented hand turner to do the same work. Maybe 30 years ago I would agree with you. Back in those days you would hear things like CNC is good for production work, but for a single part the programming effort is too great. The CNC controls today make programming relatively easy. I'll qualify that a bit, the control you get with a CNC router from Woodcraft is about equivalent to 30 years ago.

 

[Randy Heinemann]

I'm not really sure what is meant bye the "woody fraternity", but . . .To me, it's never mattered whether a tool is new or old technology. I have been a woodworker for over 50 years and more recently became a turner. It's more important that it serves a useful purpose in what I do. For example, I'd feel lost without speed control on my lathe and find that changing pulleys each time I want to move into a new speed range just takes up time I could be turning. (I have a Powermatic 3520C.) Another great example of what I would consider newer technology (although it's been around for at least 10 years) is a Festool Domino. I'd be lost without it and might not attempt various difficult joinery tasks without it. However, when it comes to CNC's I haven't felt that there is a need in my work. It just doesn't seem like woodworking to me; more like computer programming. For some, though, I see that the design of a piece is more important than the actual making of it. For them, I suppose a CNC is a great innovation. Carbide cutter inserts on lathe tools just doesn't seem like a new innovation. Again, for me, it's something that I find useful in turning. Plus, I started out not wanting to sharpen HSS gouges, etc., preferring to spend my time turning (I thought). Again, I found that I could do more with HSS steel and found some powdered metallurgy gouges by Crown (which might be considered newer technology) which hold their edge much longer and can be made very sharp on my Tormek (which I bought many years ago and never really used for sharpening). However, I still use my carbide insert tools for some things. Regularly I use my square carbide for creating a flat surface for the tenon on bowls and hollow forms and the diamond shaped carbide for cutting the angle on the tenon. I can do this quickly and repetitively successfully with these carbide tools.

So, in the end, it seems that, whatever tools works is the best for me and I think there are a lot of experienced woodworkers and woodturners who feel the same. Have I bought a tool because it's cool and a new idea? Sure. I use some of them, like the Domino, a lot, and feel they are indispensable. Some, I have sold because I never used them even though they are great tools.

 

[Donna Frazier]

Donna, thanks for the interest.

I believe you're saying the CNC can't differentiate between different grain patterns and change its cutting style as a hand turner might do. Take a close look at the first part of this youtube video of a CNC lathe turning a spindle. Watch as the tool is able to turn with the grain and against the grain.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPuOThZm4ys


The tool used has a small included angle with a razor sharp, small nose radius along with a high positive rake (this tool is upside down, but that has nothing to do with its ability to turn). A hand turner would not turn against the grain, or if they did the results might be severe tearout or catches. A good deal of what the CNC can do has to do with rigidity of the machines. Knots aren't a problem. The harder the wood the better the turned finish. With production spindle turning the pieces are not hand sanded to correct tearout because there very seldom is any.

Sometimes programming to do a thin wall bowl it's best to attempt to always cut with the grain since thin walls are fragile . A program might have to be specific to a piece of wood's characteristics.

As to crispness, not a problem at all. Look at the crispness of OT work, so crisp and clean cut no sanding needs to be done. Same situation as CNC, a small nose radius tool is used to achieve the crispness even cutting against the grain. IMO, the best hand turner would be hard pressed to approach the crispness that comes with OT or CNC lathe work.

Labor intensive......no, at least no more intensive than for a talented hand turner to do the same work. Maybe 30 years ago I would agree with you. Back in those days you would hear things like CNC is good for production work, but for a single part the programming effort is too great. The CNC controls today make programming relatively easy. I'll qualify that a bit, the control you get with a CNC router from Woodcraft is about equivalent to 30 years ago.

CNC and carbide is certainly the best option perhaps for mass production of cookie cutter consumerism. It may also be the easiest and fastest method to achieve a blank canvas for those who would rather spend their time embellishing.
However there is something special and often nostalgic to working with your hands. A piece that is handmade is unique and so much more... it has a story within. It is embodied with the love of the craftsman throughout the entire process. People can relate to it, appreciate it, and pass it down in their families as heirlooms. Why do woodturners do what we do?
Rest assured, there will always be craftsman!

 

[hughie]

I'm not really sure what is meant bye the "woody fraternity", but . . .To me, it's never mattered whether a tool is new or old technology. I have been a woodworker for over 50 years and more recently became a turner. It's more important that it serves a useful purpose in what I do. For example, I'd feel lost without speed control on my lathe and find that changing pulleys each time I want to move into a new speed range just takes up time I could be turning. (I have a Powermatic 3520C.) Another great example of what I would consider newer technology (although it's been around for at least 10 years) is a Festool Domino. I'd be lost without it and might not attempt various difficult joinery tasks without it. However, when it comes to CNC's I haven't felt that there is a need in my work. It just doesn't seem like woodworking to me; more like computer programming. For some, though, I see that the design of a piece is more important than the actual making of it. For them, I suppose a CNC is a great innovation. Carbide cutter inserts on lathe tools just doesn't seem like a new innovation. Again, for me, it's something that I find useful in turning. Plus, I started out not wanting to sharpen HSS gouges, etc., preferring to spend my time turning (I thought). Again, I found that I could do more with HSS steel and found some powdered metallurgy gouges by Crown (which might be considered newer technology) which hold their edge much longer and can be made very sharp on my Tormek (which I bought many years ago and never really used for sharpening). However, I still use my carbide insert tools for some things. Regularly I use my square carbide for creating a flat surface for the tenon on bowls and hollow forms and the diamond shaped carbide for cutting the angle on the tenon. I can do this quickly and repetitively successfully with these carbide tools.

So, in the end, it seems that, whatever tools works is the best for me and I think there are a lot of experienced woodworkers and woodturners who feel the same. Have I bought a tool because it's cool and a new idea? Sure. I use some of them, like the Domino, a lot, and feel they are indispensable. Some, I have sold because I never used them even though they are great tools.

Randy,
I guess I have likened it to a fraternity as in the beginning many folk gave me much assistance and some went out of their way to help me get going. I have noticed that by and large this is a common denominator across the world. So for me there's the qualities of brotherhood/sisterhood not so common in may other endeavours.
As I have spent most of my working life in engineering involved in several areas ie high speed packaging, R&D, mining both maintenance and construction. One of the under lying aspects of these industries was use of the latest technolgy where it was feasible and profitable. It was from this aspect that I made the observations and thoughts about being slow adopters. Ok I realize for many the finances can be a limiting aspect and any new technolgy attracts a premium and so lowers the acceptance or spread. But what has been adopted in the last 30-40 years in the wood turning arena has been there for many years prior elsewhere. My 10cents worth.. inflation

 

[Randy Heinemann]

Randy,
I guess I have likened it to a fraternity as in the beginning many folk gave me much assistance and some went out of their way to help me get going. I have noticed that by and large this is a common denominator across the world. So for me there's the qualities of brotherhood/sisterhood not so common in may other endeavours.
As I have spent most of my working life in engineering involved in several areas ie high speed packaging, R&D, mining both maintenance and construction. One of the under lying aspects of these industries was use of the latest technolgy where it was feasible and profitable. It was from this aspect that I made the observations and thoughts about being slow adopters. Ok I realize for many the finances can be a limiting aspect and any new technolgy attracts a premium and so lowers the acceptance or spread. But what has been adopted in the last 30-40 years in the wood turning arena has been there for many years prior elsewhere. My 10cents worth.. inflation

I'm not sure that at least some of the technology has been available all that long in woodturning. The types of motors and speed controls on the Powermatic 3520C have been available but not probably as long as they have been used in industry. Also, woodturners don't tend to delve into new technology until replacement of a lathe is desired or required. At that point, many would opt for as big a lathe and as feature full a lathe as financically possible. That is true in other phases of woodworking also. CNC machines have been available for woodworkinf for awhile but, until the last several years, not really all that affordable. Now, they are certainly more affordable, although not necessarily practical for woodworkers who are "hobbyists". The Shaper Origin, for example, is a great concept and one I might have invested in if I were 20 or 30 years younger. However, at this point in my life, at 70+, I have realized that I own all the power and hand tools required or desired to make anything I want and it just doesn't make any sense to invest $3,000 in a CNC router or more in a CNC machine when I could do the work I want to do without them. I think that is the thought process all woodworkers and turners go through when deciding on tool purchases. It's the process you see people asking about on this forum all the time. "What makes the most sense for me given my current situation and future needs?" Many times new technology doesn't make any sense unless you work in a production environment partly because people who are not-for-profit woodworkers enjoy the time spent working with wood and not always the number of completed projects.

 

[Doug Rasmussen]

CNC and carbide is certainly the best option perhaps for mass production of cookie cutter consumerism.

" cookie cutter consumerism"...... interesting term. I guess we're all involved in that to some extent. I sure am, I buy mass produced cars.

Slow adopters of technology is the topic of this thread, so CNC is a valid topic for discussion. One problem with discussing CNC on this forum is at every chance posters repeat misconception's about CNC they've "heard".

Even here you suggest CNC is related to mass production. CNC is far too slow for mass production of turnings. Google on "Mattison lathes" or "back knife lathes" to see mass production lathes that turn spindles in a fraction of the time any CNC can.. And those are mechanical machines. The downside of those machines is the cost of tooling which consists of segmented cutters the length of the spindle. Newer versions of those old style machines will have automated part loaders, but other than that they're 100 year old technology.

The video I linked to previously shows a CNC lathe making what is very likely a limited run of a custom design spindle. That's economic reality. Hand turning those would be expensive compared to CNC'ing them.

 

[Brian Horais]

" cookie cutter consumerism"...... interesting term. I guess we're all involved in that to some extent. I sure am, I buy mass produced cars.

Slow adopters of technology is the topic of this thread, so CNC is a valid topic for discussion. One problem with discussing CNC on this forum is at every chance posters repeat misconception's about CNC they've "heard".

Even here you suggest CNC is related to mass production. CNC is far too slow for mass production of turnings. Google on "Mattison lathes" or "back knife lathes" to see mass production lathes that turn spindles in a fraction of the time any CNC can.. And those are mechanical machines. The downside of those machines is the cost of tooling which consists of segmented cutters the length of the spindle. Newer versions of those old style machines will have automated part loaders, but other than that they're 100 year old technology.

The video I linked to previously shows a CNC lathe making what is very likely a limited run of a custom design spindle. That's economic reality. Hand turning those would be expensive compared to CNC'ing them.

Good comments on CNC Doug! It really can be a slow process, as is 3-D Printing. Adoption of any new technology always has acceptance roadblocks. Many woodturners and carvers scoff at the end products from CNC production and I agree that they don't look handmade. They aren't. On the other hand, hobby-level CNC, laser burning and 3-D printing tools have really come down in cost (look at sainsmart.com) into the $200 to $400 range for a fully functional CNC or 3-D printing machine that produces excellent (but slow) results. This is in the range of a few good turning tools! Now the question should be 'how can I integrate these tools into my woodworking process'. Integration of new technologies with existing ones is often where innovation emerges. I'm not sure how many woodturners fall into the 'innovative' category today, but if you are out there, take a look at these tools, buy one, and start integrating it into your woodturning. It can go from simple laser burning on pens to creating 3-D printed inserts for segmented turnings. Pictures are needed to make my point, so here are a few examples of my work that integrates these new capabilities. Enjoy!

 

[Don Wattenhofer]

The types of motors and speed controls on the Powermatic 3520C have been available but not probably as long as they have been used in industry

In 1979 a company by the name of Parametrics brought their newly introduced 1Hp AC variable frequency drive in to show off, at the company I was working at designing control systems, but of course the cost was more then double that of a DC motor and controller at the time. By 1982 Allen Bradley had started manufacturing them and we used them for the web drives on a carburizing furnace for a company in Coventry UK. From then on they became more popular as the cost decreased and by the mid 90's they were approaching commodity status. In 1990 I found an off brand 1HP drive at a local salvage store with a 3M stock number on it and a price of $10.00 so I grabbed it and installed it on my 60's vintage Delta 12" lathe. Now I still have not bought a wood lathe with a VFD on it but I have converted many wood working and metal working machines in my home shop and currently have 6 VFD's in use some of them as phase converters only with the added advantage of soft start.

 

[Doug Rasmussen]

In 1979 a company by the name of Parametrics brought their newly introduced 1Hp AC variable frequency drive in to show off,

Don, I had a 2hp Parametrics unit. I was at my favorite scrap yard looking for an electrical enclosure for a project. Out in the rain for several years was a Parametrics variable speed motor controller in exactly the size enclosure I needed. It was called variable speed instead of variable frequency. It appeared to be complete so just for fun I powered it up and it worked so I put it on a machine and used it for 10 years. Cost me 5 bucks.

It was cool. All discrete electrical components, no IC's. Blinking LEDS to indicate frequency.

That must have been around 1985 and it looked old at that time. The Parametrics name was new to me as were AC variable speed drives. Shortly after I acquired the drive I found the local dealer had thrown out all their Parametrics repair assemblies as obsolete. So those drives must have introduced in the early to mid 1970's.

 

[Neil S]

Precisely, Nova and some lateral thinking. I just wonder why it took so long, as the changes seem so obvious now. If we have any professional wood turners here maybe they can chime in with some history

I ran the following thread on another forum about the development of the woodturning chuck...

The development of the woodturning chuck

This was prompted by another thread asking for help to identify an old chuck, so I thought it was about time we did a thread like this before we all forget what we might have known. During most of the

www.woodworkforums.com

 

[Gerald Lawrence]

I ran the following thread on another forum about the development of the woodturning chuck...

The development of the woodturning chuck

This was prompted by another thread asking for help to identify an old chuck, so I thought it was about time we did a thread like this before we all forget what we might have known. During most of the

www.woodworkforums.com

Have to register to see that.

 

[Doug Rasmussen]

Set your time machine forward a few years when CNC's are more common in the home shop for a bit of easy to adopt technology.

The artichoke was scanned using photogrammetry. Photogrammetry is a simple technique that involves taking a number of pictures of an object from all angles, maybe 50 pictures for this example. Free or inexpensive software analyzes the pictures to create a 3D model. That model could be used to 3D print a copy. Photogrammetry software has come a long way in recent years, still needs a fairly fast computer to create the model in under an hour processing time. 3D Zephyr Free is a free download anybody with even only a cell phone camera can use.

In this case I used the CNC to embellish a rough turned blank using the 3D model as a pattern. The software to create the CNC program can also be free or relatively cheap. As shown in the picture taken 6 months after scanning the artichoke dried out and puffed up so it appears larger than the wood copy. The wood piece was a test in scrap wood. The final pieces were bed post tops in more exotic wood.

 

[Neil S]

Have to register to see that.

Apologies!

It seems to be the way the world is now. Every website wants you to register with them!

I could have a go at posting some of it here if I can find the bits and pieces that I put together for that.

I guess that might partly serve Hughie's purpose by showing that we have slowly adopted new technology and techniques over time, but perhaps I should make it a separate thread here if and when I get the time to do that.

 

[Randy Heinemann]

Can't believe this thread is still going on...If you get satisfaction from using a CNC to do your woodturning, woodworking, wood carving . . . then use it. If you get more satisfaction from doing the work by hand or other machine, then do it. Some people like to draw pieces of furniture using more traditional drafting methods. It's the way they design best. Some prefer to use 3D Cad programs to design. Some use one for some pieces and the other for other pieces. The same is true for tools and how they are used by each woodworker. For me, it's really irrelevant to the whole concept of woodworking. Whatever gives you the most satisfaction do it. There are appropriate situations to use any tool on the market, if that's what gives you peace of mind. I can appreciate any piece, however it is designed or made. Why do I need to know how it was made? That's only important for the pieces I make since they are made for my own enjoyment.