Leaving a traditional grind on a spindle gouge - Which tasks?

[Jamie Straw]

Realizing that most of the time a fingernail grind with longer sides is what's recommended for spindle gouges, I also have a vague memory that for certain tasks it can be better to keep a traditional grind. Can someone fill me in on what those tasks (or that task) are? I have one gouge that's still short-ground, so curious about this. Thanks!

 

[john lucas]

Not sure what you mean by "short ground". I have spindle gouges ground 2 ways. My smaller gouges like 1/2" or smaller have a fingernail grind done using the Wolverine jig, except I move the tool either up in the V arm or forward in the V arm so that the bevel angle is 35 degrees where my normal bowl gouge angle is about 50 degrees. My larger spindle gouges I don't bring the wings back. I do grind them back a tiny bit so there aren't any sharp corners to catch. These have much larger radius to the front appearance but still have the 35 degree bevel angle. I like the big ones this way because they cut more like the skew but it's easier to turn coves than it is with the skew. My smaller spindle gouges are primarily used for beads and smaller details or steeper coves. The bigger spindle gouges are more for long ogees or long shallow coves which is what the excel at.

 

[Jamie Straw]

Right on target...

My larger spindle gouges I don't bring the wings back. I do grind them back a tiny bit so there aren't any sharp corners to catch. These have much larger radius to the front appearance but still have the 35 degree bevel angle. I like the big ones this way because they cut more like the skew but it's easier to turn coves than it is with the skew. My smaller spindle gouges are primarily used for beads and smaller details or steeper coves. The bigger spindle gouges are more for long ogees or long shallow coves which is what the excel at.

Yep, that's the situation. I have two 1/4", one that's 3/8", with fingernail grind (also using Wolverine). Then a 3/4" that's never been used, has the "larger radius" but came from factory at 45 degree bevel angle. I watched your cove video (twice) and practiced yesterday with the 3/8". These smaller gouges I used a lot when I was making wine stoppers. The 3/4" should do well for larger candleholders. I'll follow your lead and just touch up the corners, and ease it toward 35 degrees instead of the current 45.

 

[Bill Boehme]

.... Then a 3/4" that's never been used, has the "larger radius" but came from factory at 45 degree bevel angle. I watched your cove video (twice) and practiced yesterday with the 3/8". These smaller gouges I used a lot when I was making wine stoppers. The 3/4" should do well for larger candleholders. I'll follow your lead and just touch up the corners, and ease it toward 35 degrees instead of the current 45.

It sounds like the 3/4" gouge must be a small spindle roughing gouge. The SRG is generally best for making square stock round, but it can also go a bit further and do some of the coarse shaping before you refine the details with a skew or spindle gouge. A bowl gouge also works well on spindles and is generally easier to do some things like making a pommel cut on a table leg.

 

[john lucas]

Jamie The spindle gouge is less catchy when ground at 45. It does cut cleaner at 35 degrees but takes a little more practice to get it right. I played with the difference when teaching a class once and most had better luck with the slightly blunter grind. I've tried sharper angles but went back to 35 degrees as a good all around angle for those tools.

 

[Jamie Straw]

It sounds like the 3/4" gouge must be a small spindle roughing gouge. The SRG is generally best for making square stock round, but it can also go a bit further and do some of the coarse shaping before you refine the details with a skew or spindle gouge. A bowl gouge also works well on spindles and is generally easier to do some things like making a pommel cut on a table leg.

When I first saw it, that's what I thought, but then realized it's shaped differently than the roughing gouge in the set, and so checked the card that came with it -- it's listed as a spindle gouge. Not as square as the roughing gouge (same size) and a different bevel. I like the idea of leaving it pretty much as-is and using it for coves.

 

[Jamie Straw]

Good information!

Jamie The spindle gouge is less catchy when ground at 45. It does cut cleaner at 35 degrees but takes a little more practice to get it right. I played with the difference when teaching a class once and most had better luck with the slightly blunter grind. I've tried sharper angles but went back to 35 degrees as a good all around angle for those tools.

This is the kind of information that is so helpful, but seldom included in sharpening literature. It's almost comical how the bevel-angle advice varies in books and online articles, by huge amounts, not just 5 or 10 degrees. But once in awhile, a statement like yours is made, and it really clarifies things. Makes sense to start with a "less catchy" tool, and work up to the cleaner cut as technique evolves!

 

[hockenbery]

John has a good point about the bevel angles. The 30 degree bevel is more demanding regarding bevel contact when used. Come off the bevel and it can skate backwards or dig in both of which ruin the surface. I have a detail gouge with a 60 degree bevel I use sometimes for turning beads on bowls and hollow forms where it is difficult to get the 30 degree bevel on work. The 60 degree transitions from cutting to scraping where the 30 degree bevel would catch. It is a trade off. The 30 degree tool is sharper, cuts cleaner and its edge will make a cleaner groove. The 60 degree bevel holds the edge longer and is less likely to grab I don't use a 45 but it would be somewhere in between and a good choice for many applications.

 

[Jamie Straw]

Experience speaks, and newbies listen!

John has a good point about the bevel angles. The 30 degree bevel is more demanding regarding bevel contact when used. Come off the bevel and it can skate backwards or dig in both of which ruin the surface. I have a detail gouge with a 60 degree bevel I use sometimes for turning beads on bowls and hollow forms where it is difficult to get the 30 degree bevel on work. The 60 degree transitions from cutting to scraping where the 30 degree bevel would catch. It is a trade off. The 30 degree tool is sharper, cuts cleaner and its edge will make a cleaner groove. The 60 degree bevel holds the edge longer and is less likely to grab I don't use a 45 but it would be somewhere in between and a good choice for many applications.

This thread is going into the sharpening section of my notebook, for sure. The explanation of such practical variations on bevel angles help me understand sharpening as an organic process. Very helpful! Question: With the 60 degree angle, is it still profiled with the longish wings?

 

[john lucas]

Sharpening as an Organic process. That's an interesting way of looking at it. Maybe there is such a thing as Free Range sharpening.

 

[Bill Boehme]

When I first saw it, that's what I thought, but then realized it's shaped differently than the roughing gouge in the set, and so checked the card that came with it -- it's listed as a spindle gouge. Not as square as the roughing gouge (same size) and a different bevel. I like the idea of leaving it pretty much as-is and using it for coves.

Then it must be what is sometimes called a continental style spindle gouge. That is how the old style carbon steel tools were made -- Stamped from a flat piece of steel so that it is curved into a shallow U. Generally, the cutting edge has just a little of curve back on the sides so that they are a little more user friendly.

 

[Bill Boehme]

Sharpening as an Organic process. That's an interesting way of looking at it. Maybe there is such a thing as Free Range sharpening.

Yeah, but free range sharpening is a rather skittish creature and its habits are not well documented. I've heard that it is easily spooked when it encounters feral wood. Those who have witnessed such an encounter report lots of strange sounds not unlike sounds that might be uttered by a longshoreman.

 

[Jamie Straw]

Mmmmm, not so pretty

Sharpening as an Organic process. That's an interesting way of looking at it. Maybe there is such a thing as Free Range sharpening.

Oh, I've tried "Free Range sharpening" -- pretty ugly, that.

 

[robo hippy]

Jamie, are you part of the club in Bremerton? Good group there, and you can get hands on mentoring, which is better than any video. I have a number of clips up on You Tube as well if you type in robo hippy. If you ever get down Eugene way, stop on by. I have as much fun teaching as I do turning. Of course, ask 10 different turners the same question, and you will get at least a dozen different answers....

robo hippy

 

[Jamie Straw]

Yep, I'll be there.

Jamie, are you part of the club in Bremerton? Good group there, and you can get hands on mentoring, which is better than any video. I have a number of clips up on You Tube as well if you type in robo hippy. If you ever get down Eugene way, stop on by. I have as much fun teaching as I do turning. Of course, ask 10 different turners the same question, and you will get at least a dozen different answers....

robo hippy

Hi, Reed, I'm going to their meeting this month. I had attended a couple of meetings before abandoning the shop a few years ago, and definitely want to reconnect. I hear ya on the mentoring. I have a friend in Everett who spent a couple of hours getting me started on bowl turning, and when I went to Dave Schweitzer's shop to buy a bowl gouge (again, years ago), he spent over an hour with me on the lathe. I'll be a regular in Bremerton! Oh, also, I've watched several of your videos -- good stuff, that.
Thanks.