Live center, questions

[Sergio Villa]

I could have post this on the ongoing discussion of the Robust live center but decided to post a new being more general.
I have a Oneway live center which I have been using for about a year now and often with the adaptor to revers the chuck and the chuck on. I also used it with the small cone to support big blanks out of round while roughing them out. Blanks in the range of 22-20 inch in diameter by 10-12 inch deep. Mainly green Cherry and Elm. Now the live center has a play and when I use it with the reversed chuck (a small oneway, the one with tommy bars) I can see that it turns with an evident wobble/run-out.
Well, at this point I want to buy another live center. I thought of buying a live center for metal lathes, their precision and capacity is fantastic but so their price. Furthermore they do not use the threaded center nor the cup center and I discarded (not entirely) this idea.
Now I'm considering the Robust, Nova or other which are out there but I need some inputs.
Thanks.

 

[john lucas]

Well I've been using the Nova live center for about 12 years now for all sorts of turnings. One thing I really like is the centers are short #2 morse tapers so it's very easy to make all sorts of adaptors. I simply turn a #2 morse taper, put it in the headstock and turn what you need, then cut the taper short and you have a custom point for the live center. I keep thinking I will wear the bearings out sometime but so far it's hanging in there.

 

[Ian Thorn]

Being a Kiwi I also have a Nova live centre that has done a lot of work with no sign of wear.

 

[Grant Wilkinson]

You may want to contact Oneway and see about getting them to look at or replace you live center. I would not think that the bearing should wear out in only a couple of years. I've had mine for much longer - but maybe not being used for the same purposes - and it is still like new.

 

[Bill Boehme]

The cost of shipping and repair with new bearings may come to about $25 - $30 based on talking to Kevin a couple years ago about returning a live center. Talk to them about how to fill in the customs form to avoid any duties.

 

[Sergio Villa]

I double checked the "play" in my live center. It is much more evident (visible by eye) when the adaptor and the chuck is mounted on it. So I'm not sure how much of it is due to the center and how much to all those threaded connections. Anybody tried the center with a reversed chuck?

 

[Bill Boehme]

Unless the threaded connection is damaged, there is no free play between the two parts if it is fully seated. If you have the large cone on the live center, the longer moment arm means that the amount of deflection will seem to be greater, but the amount of movement at the threaded nose will still be the same.

BTW. I have used a chuck adapter on my Oneway live centers when reversing to line things up for vacuum chucking. My oldest Oneway live centeris pretty loose, but the newer one seems reasonably good -- just a very tiny amount of wiggle.

 

[Sergio Villa]

I never used the big cone. I spoke with Kevin and, if I remember well, he said that the live center is rated for three hundred pounds. Well, when one have a 20 inch blank of wet wood out of round and the thing bangs against the gouge I believe there is a lot of stress. I wish my lathe had a 3MT live center. Also the threaded nose and the its are very small. This is just my sensation. BTW i have and use a lot a Oneway safe drive and have to sharpen the cylinder around the point because got easily dull. Not a sufficiently hardened steel.

I think that the Nova has a better design with the chuck adaptor going directly from the live center taper to the chuck thread thus avoiding a step in the center-chuck assembly. A taper can be much more precise than a thread that, by definition, must have certain tolerances. I've never seen the Nova so I cannot comment on its quality.

Finally, here is a quote from the Oneway internet site on their warranty:
"All ONEWAY manufactured products are backed by a warranty period of two years from the date of purchase, unless otherwise stated in the "Manufacturers Warranty" provided with the product.
Any non-manufactured parts (like bearings, drives, wheels etc.) are not covered under this Warranty."
So, where is the live center manufactured? Does it falls under that "etc".?

 

[Bill Boehme]

..... So, where is the live center manufactured? Does it falls under that "etc".?

That is not a difficult question. Precision ball bearing assemblies, for all of their apparent simplicity, are high tech devices. Like almost every other company, Oneway buys them from a manufacturer that has the expertise and capability. Oneway is confident enough in what they fabricate to stand behind the product, but assuming responsibility for another company's product apparently is further than they want to go.

Is that right or wrong? I would say neither. Bearings are a wear component and some users of the product aren't mechanically savvy. I have seen demonstrators many times while sharing their exceptional artistic talent also show that they aren't always knowledgeable about the finer points of machinery. As far as I know, all woodturning live centers before the new one from Robust only have radial ball bearing assemblies which are intended for radial loads. The rated axial load limit of that type of bearing is generally a small fraction of the radial load rating. So it always makes me cringe a bit when I see someone use both hands along with upper body english to honk down on the tailstock wheel. Considering the mechanical advantaage of the screw that advances the quill, I hate to think how much axial force is being placed on the poor bearings, not to mention the headstock bearings are suffering the same abuse. Come on, folks ... bearings have feelings, too!

Anyway, since Oneway has been the big dog in woodturning live centers in North America, it might be that folks sometimes equate that with being indestructable. Maybe Oneway has had to hand out more free bearings than they care to for warranty repairs. The remainder of the live center is probably made in-house and covered by their warranty, but given that the housing is the structural equivalent of an anvil, it's not much of a risk WRT failing. OTOH, the buyer sees a live center as a single item -- not a collection of component parts from different sources.

I have no idea what their warranty policy is regard spindle bearings on their lathes.

I like the fact that the new live center from Robust has an angle ball bearing assembly and that they are willing to cover the bearings in their warranty. I guess that it remains to be seen whether they are up to the challenge from the "tailstock honkers" .

 

[Bill Boehme]

BTW, MT2 vs MT3 is not nearly as significant as the load carrying capability of the bearing assembly.

 

[Sergio Villa]

I think that manufacturers should state the loads etc of their live centers. It is obvious that bearings are made abroad since I believe there are not one single manufacturer of bearings left in this country. But among bearings there are differences. Thus, in order to let the buyer decide with a minimum of knowledge, the manufacturers should state the basic stats of their live center, such as load etc. like in the CNC industry. The warranty of their bearings may be an indication but I would like to see numbers.

 

[hockenbery]

Bill,
Cringe away
When I turn blanks between centers I crank down on my live center.
Every turner I know well tightens down when turning between centers.
My oldest ONEWAY center just had its 21st birthday.
It is still going.

The one in my ONEWAY lathe has been going strong since 1997
I crank as hard as I can when I put on a blank. I do use one hand.
And I tighten as I turn.
It's the center's job to hold big blank on the spur drive.

I trust your judgement that it is not good for the bearings.
I also know from experience they can take the abuse for a long time.

Maybe my centers will only last 20-40 years - and yours will last a 100 -

 

[Bill Boehme]

.... It is obvious that bearings are made abroad since I believe there are not one single manufacturer of bearings left in this country.....

Fortunately, that is not the case. The best manufacturers are still here and Germany also has some very good ones too. The Japanese are very good at manufacturing bearings as well.

.... Maybe my centers will only last 20-40 years - and yours will last a 100 -

It's agreed then, we will get together about forty years from now and compare notes.

 

[Sergio Villa]

Bill, all bearing sold in this country are made abroad or by foreign companies. Timken, that I believe invented the bearings, also. If you know a company that makes bearings in this country I would like to know. Robust uses South Korean bearing in its lathes. Happy to be wrong.

 

[hockenbery]

It's agreed then, we will get together about forty years from now and compare notes.

I marked my calendar for 5pm 14 may, 2054

 

[Fred Belknap]

I have a Oneway live center and the bearing make a grinding sound but don't seem to have much runout. I called Oneway about getting it repaired or getting parts and doing it myself. I was informed that it wasn't a job for consumers and I needed to send it to them for repair. I was given instructions on getting it through customs and sent forms to download. If I remember correctly it would cost more then $30 to get it fixed including shipping. Since it didn't have much runout I decided to use it for reversing to a vacuum chuck. I may still get it fixed if I can get a handle on exactly how much it will cost.
edit: The PM live center that came with my lathe is an exact clone and so far it has worked fine.

 

[john lucas]

I'm like Al. I crank down on my live center often. When I'm mounting work between centers I lock the spindle, crank down on the live center, rock the work to seat the drive center better and then crank the tailstock some more. So far after many many years of doing this my tailstock threads are still good ( I wonder how long that will last) and both my Powermatic and Nova live centers still work perfectly. Had the Powermatic about 12 years now and the Nova live center for probably 18 to 20 years.

 

[Bill Boehme]

Bill, all bearing sold in this country are made abroad or by foreign companies. Timken, that I believe invented the bearings, also. If you know a company that makes bearings in this country I would like to know. Robust uses South Korean bearing in its lathes. Happy to be wrong.

The off-the-shelf bearings that you and I would buy are probably all made in other countries where labor is super cheap. It is hard to determine exactly where things are being made because almost all bearing manufacturers in the world are part of multinational conglomerates where numerous bearing manufacturers have been combined together and often only parts of a bearing assembly are made in any single location. However, there are many specialty and custom bearings that are made in the US. Us law on defense acquisitions (DFARS) requires that all bearings used in defense contracts be 100% US made (some exceptions for joint contracts where other NATO countries are involved in the development and manufacturing).

So, .......

..... you know what that means .......


..... without US made bearings .......


..... ahem ......


..... our Government would grind to a halt.

 

[Bill Boehme]

... When I turn blanks between centers I crank down on my live center.....

I'm like Al. I crank down on my live center often....

You right brain artistic types are giving me the willies.

 

[hockenbery]

Made in the USA is difficult to determine and what is a
US company and what is a multinational company
What could be more American than Ford?
FORD owns all or part of about 80 factories to make parts, assemble vehicles.
24 are in the US. Of course many Ford facilities outside the US are making cars for foreign markets.
Cheaper to build close to point of sale.

Ford's bearing supplier, as of 5 years ago and I assume still, is General Bearing corp of nyack, NY an American company but wait
Their four plants are in China.

We are in a global society. Our goods, services, entertainment all have an international flavor.

 

[hockenbery]

You right brain artistic types are giving me the willies.

Bill driving wears out your tires!
Few things last forever.


Al

 

[Sergio Villa]

The off-the-shelf bearings that you and I would buy are probably all made in other countries where labor is super cheap. It is hard to determine exactly where things are being made because almost all bearing manufacturers in the world are part of multinational conglomerates where numerous bearing manufacturers have been combined together and often only parts of a bearing assembly are made in any single location. However, there are many specialty and custom bearings that are made in the US. Us law on defense acquisitions (DFARS) requires that all bearings used in defense contracts be 100% US made (some exceptions for joint contracts where other NATO countries are involved in the development and manufacturing).

So, .......:

Roller bearings, taper roller bearings, needle bearings and now strategic bearings. May be the strategic are the answer for a good live center!

 

[john lucas]

Doesn't answer where but is interesting to watch.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6svVy1lYOA

 

[Gretch Flo]

I marked my calendar for 5pm 14 may, 2054

Let the arm wrestling between Al and Bill begin (after "cocktail" hour, of course) . Strength could have a "bearing" on the bearing/ Gretch

 

[hockenbery]

Doesn't answer where but is interesting to watch. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6svVy1lYOA

How do they train them to march so orderly?
Video was fun to watch.