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M42 Continental Gouge?

Isn't the difference in the tang another characteristic of a continental gouge? I'm not being a smart a$$ in new to turning and am truly seeking knowledge.

Gregory
 
Gregory Hickman said:
Isn't the difference in the tang another characteristic of a continental gouge? I'm not being a smart a$$ in new to turning and am truly seeking knowledge.
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I don't believe the tang is an intrinsic property of any gouge style – it's the profile of the sharp business end that counts, as it were. For example, there are SRGs with narrow tangs but the more recent thing is to have a much more robust, large-diameter tool end for SRGs as the tang was a weak point in a bad catch. But the tool's geometry is the same for both tang styles.
 
Hello Gregory- "continental" gouges, and spindle roughing gouges, both start life as flat stock, then are forged into a flattish to curved shape. The tang is formed as the sides of the flat stock at that area are sheared away, resulting in a narrow gauge rectangular tang that is fit into a round hole in the handle. That small section tang is the weak point only when one tries to hang the tool far off the tool rest, as we'd do with a bowl gouge. If undue force comes down on the cutting edge of the tool (tool too far off the rest, or a roughing gouge grabbing a big bite of wood while hanging far off the rest), the fulcrum point is close enough to the tang that it can fail, breaking where the flute section transitions to tang. "My big heavy gouge is faulty, I want a new one!" This happened enough that catalogs would warn of no guarantee for this kind of failure. This gouge design needs to have the cutting edge kept very close to the tool rest support, within an inch or so.

Modern day gouges (bowl and spindle) milled from bar stock are inherently stronger at the tang, there is more beef at that location. Modern is relative, they've been made this way for decades.
 
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Gregory Hickman said:
Isn't the difference in the tang another characteristic of a continental gouge? I'm not being a smart a$$ in new to turning and am truly seeking knowledge.

Gregory
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As John Whitley said, it isn't so much the tang or the stock that makes a continental gouge a continental gouge - It's the profile of the flute and cutting edge. A Continental gouge could be made from round bar stock , if you cut the flute properly (relatively shallow) - Look at the photo Randy Anderson posted, you can see how you could mill a continental gouge from round bar stock (though rarely can I imagine it to be worth it given the amount of steel you'd have to cut away to form the flute both top and bottom) and then of course the fingernail grind to the cutting tip. - Technically you could turn a SRG into a continental gouge by grinding down the top of the flute a bit lower and then giving it a fingernail grind instead of the straight-across grind of a SRG... There's lots of spindle gouges milled from round bar stock, but they tend to have a much thicker heel than a Continental once you sharpen them up.

And as mentioned by Steve, most spindle work gouges are going to be used with very little of the tool overhanging the tool rest (Leverage and all that.. gives better control, for one...) so tang is not of particular concern where Spindle Gouges (and SRG's) are in use - there's very little leverage if you get a catch for the wood to bend the gouge over tool rest, so strength is not a major issue there.
 
If there was an M42 or V10 continental style gouge out there, I would add them to my arsenal. I am not that much of a spindle turner, but can see them being handy. The preferred tool of the old school bodgers.

robo hippy
 
robo hippy said:
If there was an M42 or V10 continental style gouge out there, I would add them to my arsenal. I am not that much of a spindle turner, but can see them being handy. The preferred tool of the old school bodgers.

robo hippy
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Indeed -- they're very useful for turning pieces for the Windsor chairs I build
 
robo hippy said:
If there was an M42 or V10 continental style gouge out there, I would add them to my arsenal. I am not that much of a spindle turner, but can see them being handy. The preferred tool of the old school bodgers.

robo hippy
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Great name for a band: Old School Bodgers! Let the gen whatevers try to figure 'bodgers' out🤣
 
@Randy Anderson, how are the Sorby and Crown continental gouges working out for you?

I'm particularly interested in your Crown experience, because I just ordered the 3/4" M42 Crown. Two, actually. One I'll leave in the symetric grind similar to the stock grind for spindles, the other I'm going to grind asymmetrical like how Richard Raffan grinds gouges- a bit more swept back on the left of center, and mainly unaltered to the right side, and use this for face grain/bowl work. Here is a video where he uses a 3/4" continental to make a shallow bowl. He has other videos discussing the merits of, and grinding, the asymmetrical grind on spindle and bowl gouges.
View: https://youtu.be/PQ3sscKgm-U?si=6ROg6SjdH5M6soW7


Speaking of Crown's M42 Razor Edge line, no M42 steel tools are listed at the Crown USA site, nor Crown's mothership site in the UK. I've not heard that they stopped production of them. Maybe, as they've been for 20-some years, their M2 and Pro-PM tools sell better. Comparing the characteristics of M42 steel (newer to them) to their established Pro-PM line, it was probably splitting hairs. I've emailed Crown UK asking about the M42, I'll report back if I hear anything. In the meantime, if you are interested in the Crown 2319RAZ Forged 3/4" Spindle Gouge (aka "continental gouge"), or any other M42 tools of theirs, you better look around now and take what you can get.
 
Steve, I use it as part of my lineup of gouges to get the basic shape. I sharpen it in my wolverine jig at the same setup as I do my 1/2" spindle gouges. I have a couple of other continental styled gouges I use at various stages but no set routine to be honest, just whatever feels right for moment really. The other ones I have to sharpen manually since they're too wide to fit in the wolverine jig and I'm not great at manual sharpening but getting better I think. Should probably sit down one day and focus on them. I'm just trying to get lots and lots of material out of the way toward a basic shape profile so I plow ahead till one of them is dull then swap till I have to sharpen them. Probably not a good routine to move that often, depending on the wood, from one style gouge to another but again, just piling up chips. Once I get the basic shape I then mostly work with my standard 1/2" spindle gouges and the Crown gouge. I've come to be a huge fan of my 1/2" spindle gouges and use them constantly.
 
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I received this message from Crown Tool overnight concerning M42 tools, good news-

HI,

We are still manufacturing these (M42 turning tools). Our new website will be launched in less than 6 weeks so you will see them there.

They are available from

Lee Valley
Rockler
Woodcraft
Hartville Hardware
(And other retailers, such as shown by Bill above.)

Kind regards
Charlotte
 
I've actually been thinking about picking up another 1/2" spindle gouge or two since I use the ones I have so often. Since I have 3 continental shaped gouges, including the Crown, for basic shaping work I'll likely get another 1 or 2 standard 1/2" spindle gouges. I've come to really rely on them a lot for working the final shape, cleanup shear scraping, shaping the ends for tenons, openings, etc. Funny that since I shifted to making very large hollow forms I spend more time with a 1/2" spindle gouges in my hand than anything else.

Steve, didn't answer about the Sorby 1" tool I have. I also have a 1" Hurricane SRG I modified to look like a continental that I use. Hard to do any real comparison since I have to sharpen it and the hurricane manually and I don't trust my sharpening skills enough to compare plus, the end profiles could use some tweaking. I have a big ornamental Cherry log (27" @ 160lbs) ready to mount up today so I'll try to do some comparisons and maybe tweak the profile to make it more similar to the way the Crown is shaped.
 
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Thanks Randy. Forever, my Crown Pro-PM spindle gouges have worked beautifully. The 1/2" was starting to get a bit short, so at the AAW this summer I bought a Carter 1/2" M42 spindle gouge that I'll set into a wood handle.

Raffan loves 1/2" spindle gouges for a lot (not all) of faceplate work because, he says, they are so much cheaper than bowl gouges.
 
I looked around a bit this morning and the Crown Pro-PM seems to only be sold with a handle. I don't sharpen with handles on so buy all my tools unhandled. The Crown Revolution Cryo unhandled is only $50 on Amazon. I have a Thompson and 2 D-Way 1/2" ones now. One of my D-Ways is very short and I've had to grind a flat on the shaft to keep sharpening it but that time is running out as well. Plus a short shaft is awkward to use.
 
$70 gets an unhandled 1/2" M42 spindle gouge from Carter and Son.

1/2

Our most popular size spindle gouge, the 1/2” is built solid for roughing cuts and stays sharp for delicate details. An incredibly versatile tool for turning a wide range of smaller projects, and accomplishing detail work on bowls and platters. What makes a 5-star 1/2” spindle gouge? Superior...
carterandsontoolworks.com carterandsontoolworks.com

Specs-
Blade measures 1/2” outside diameter x 8” overall
Flute measures 4-3/4”
1/2” tang diameter
12” or 10” x 3/4” handle & 1/2” adapter

I haven't measured usable flute lengths on spindle gouges, but 4-3/4" seems a tad short for a new tool But, M42 will have a longer service life than M2, so that will nore than make up for a shorter flute length. If it is shorter than others...

What is the cost of a handled Pro-PM 1/2" spindle gouge? Would it be worth buying and knocking off the wood handle?
 
Looked at that one. Decent price. Still looking around. D-Way has there's for $69 and I've always been happy with their tools. Thompson has a deep flute 1/2 spindle gouges for $65. Not sure what the differences are other than what's obvious I guess, it has a deeper flute. Again, I've been happy with their tools and have a number of their bowl gouges. Still looking. Thx.
 
Heres a few site that carry m42 tools

www.timbecon.com.au

Crown M42 Cryogenic Woodturning Tools

Discover Crown's M42 cryogenic woodturning tools, engineered for superior sharpness and durability. Perfect for woodturners who demand long-lasting and high-performance tools.
www.timbecon.com.au www.timbecon.com.au

Bowl and Spindle Gouges M42 Steel Archives - Glenn Lucas Master Woodturner

www.glennlucaswoodturning.com www.glennlucaswoodturning.com

Carter and Son Toolworks Wood Lathe Turning Tools | Carter and Son Toolworks

Carter and Son Toolworks offers quality wood lathe turning tools, built in the USA from M42 high speed steels. The best woodturning experience, ever.
carterandsontoolworks.com carterandsontoolworks.com
 
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