McNaughton Center Saver on hard wood

[Tom Lewis]

I have a nice piece of black walnut 20" in diameter and 6" thick. It is very highly figured and seems a shame to turn most of it into shavings. I was thinking about using the McNaughton Center Saver on it, but the wood is well seasoned and very hard.
Will the McNaughton Center Saver work on a piece of wood like this?
I have a Vicmarc VL 300 lathe with a 3 hp. motor.

 

[Sean Troy]

It can with a light touch some where around 600 rpm. Start the cut and go in a little, pull the blade back out and overlap your cut by half the width of the blade. Keep repeating this all the way through.

 

[Jack Riley]

Absolutely!

Take you time and make sure that you give the shavings enough room to clear. My neighbor asked if I wanted a dead black walnut before he pushed it into a burn pile. I salvaged the entire trunk of a 125 year old tree. Many bowls and HF will result and the first went to his wife as a doe/batter bowl forcing her to reintroduce home-made biscuits to their dining table.

 

[Ron Sardo]

Black Walnut! What are you kidding!

That stuff is soft compared to the bubinga I core!

 

[Malcolm Smith]

I don't know what sort of lathe you have but the Oneway system works very well. I would guess that it is adaptable to most lathes. I've used it on dry hardwoods. It is important to carefully sharpen the cutters. Yes, it makes sense being able to make several bowls instead of one.

Malcolm Smith.

 

[Mark Mandell]

In a word, "sure."

You wood's going to get warm so be sure to keep your kerf cleared of shavings or you'll be burning in short order which doesn't help the temper of the knife.

With only 6" in thickness, you want to be real careful on your knife selection and the entry angle.

I use a spritz of WD-40 on my knives; it helps with backing out the knife to clear shavings.

 

[Malcolm Smith]

Shame to turn it into shavings indeed. Had one of the trees next to my house and a man knocked on my front door. I opened it and he offered me $ 10.000. for the tree. That was in the fifties!

Malcolm Smith.

 

[robo hippy]

The McNaughton will work fine on the Walnut. I am guessing that you have never used this system. A piece of wood this size wouldn't be good for a first attempt at coring. I have been coring Mountain Mahogany which has a density of 1.1 or more, and on the Janka hardness scale, it is 18, with Lignum being 20. Osage 10, and walnut around 8.The McNaughton, for me is the fastest and most efficient of the 3 coring systems out there, and is by far and away the most versatile, but it has a learning curve. The Oneway is much more expensive, but easy to use, and the cutters are a pain to sharpen. Do core it if you can, or find some one close by who can core it for you.
robo hippy

 

[Ron Sardo]

Janka Hardness Scale I

Janka Hardness Scale II

Janka Hardness Scale III

 

[Bill Pottorf]

Tom, in the event that you are a fairly new user of the McNaughton System, I will relate a little of my experience. I core a lot of Mesquite and other woods much harder than Black Walnut with no problem.

I thought after having used the system for a couple of years that noone could improve my use of the system. That was a very poor thought on my part. Mike Mahoney came to our club and gave us a 4 day hands on turning school. That was the most informative event I have attended and changed my use of the system drastically, to a much easier application. His method is used continually as he is a production turner as you know, coring hundreds of bowls a year. I would highly recommend purchasing his DVD about the system and put into practice right off of the start, his methods. You will not be sorry and will be heads and shoulders beyond the learning point should you do it. I cannot recommend it more to anyone than this. Go and get it.

 

[robo hippy]

McNaughton also has a laser pointer available for the coring system. I really like it. No more aiming shallow just to keep from going through the bottom of the bowl. I also have a DVD out on coring with the McNaughton, which shows the laser in use. Nothing wrong with Mike's DVD, I just do a few things differently.
robo hippy

 

[Old Bolivian]

Of the myriads of toys (tools that is) I have around my lathe, I like my center saver best. It makes for less wasted shavings and also some adventure. Keep sharpening the knife as you use it and don't let it get too hot.
Luck, Hilel.

 

[robo hippy]

I have always thought that the 'fewer shavings' was a myth. A coring system is a lot faster than turning out the inside of a bowl, and I can get a lot more bowls turned. So more bowls means more shavings, even if I don't get as many per bowl.
robust robo hippy

 

[Ed_McDonnell]

....Mike Mahoney came to our club ...That was the most informative event I have attended ...I would highly recommend purchasing his DVD about the system...

Mahoney may be great in person, but his coring DVD is another matter. I bought the Mahoney DVD when I purchased the system. I found that it offered little in the way of real information on how to use the system. I was very disappointed in the DVD. In my opinion, it's much more "here's what you can do once you learn how to use the tool" rather than a "here's how to use the tool" DVD.

He showed some really nice work at the end of the DVD, but that wasn't worth the price.

Ed

 

[Ed_McDonnell]

I have always thought that the 'fewer shavings' was a myth. A coring system is a lot faster than turning out the inside of a bowl, and I can get a lot more bowls turned. So more bowls means more shavings, even if I don't get as many per bowl.
robust robo hippy

What I would expect is:

A 50lb log turned into one big bowl = 4lb bowl and 46lbs shavings.

A 50lb log cored into 4 bowls = 10lb bowls and 40 lbs shaving.

If you end up with more shavings using a coring system, then you've discovered a way to create matter. This could be the answer to the energy crisis.

Ed

 

[Sean Troy]

Whats the correct sharpening method for the bades?

 

[Bill Grumbine]

I've missed most of this discussion, although I am often in the coring ones. Tom, if you want the most comprehensive video on coring, then you need to buy Reed's (robo hippy). I have a short segment on my second video on the coring tool, but it is just concerned with basic setup and operation. Reed has devoted an entire video to the tool, and it is very well done.

And as far as whether or not you can core that piece of wood, you already have my answer.

Bill

 

[Bill Grumbine]

Sean, I still use the "flat" tip knives, and touch them up on the grinder by grinding the front, not the top. It only takes a very little bit of work and the knife is good for a few more bowls. I do not have a lot of experience with the newer pointy ones, and what little I have did not really impress me that they were that much better.

Bill

 

[Old Bolivian]

Two seemingly contradictory remarks: I'm with Ed on this one. Each inner bowl made would have become shavings, so fewer shavings win out;
Having said that, I would like to buy Reed's dvd. Where can I get it?
Hilel

 

[Gretch Flo]

more shavings

Two seemingly contradictory remarks: I'm with Ed on this one. Each inner bowl made would have become shavings, so fewer shavings win out;
Having said that, I would like to buy Reed's dvd. Where can I get it?
Hilel

I too had to read that a couple of times. I think (he should chime in) that he turns alot more bowls and end up with the same amount of shavings as before coring., just more bowls. i.e he uses more logs, makes more bowls, but ends up with the same amount of shavings . For example-no real figures here-before coring, uses 1000 of wood, got 100 bowls, and 900 pounds of shavings. Now uses 4000 pounds of wood, got 600 bowls and 900 pounds of shavings. See-same amount of shavings!!! Gretch

 

[Mark Mandell]

Sharpening

Sean,

I have an older set, like Bill's, that were ground to the right-hand point. I spoke to Mahoney at St. Louis when I noticed the knives he was demoing were center-pointed. He was emphatic that I should regrind them to a center point. I have done so as I use them and can say that they "seem" to track better into the wood with less side slipping in the kerf which makes for a smoother cut.

It's important to understand that the McNaughton blades are made with a thin 1/16" layer of HSS bonded to the top surface of the knife's cutting area. Thus you should NEVER GRIND THE TOP SURFACE lest you ruin the knife altogether by grinding off the cutting steel from the softer blade body. If you look at the side of the clean knife you may see the very faint line between to two types of steel.

I grind my knives using a flat support (like the Oneway) set so that the knife is ground at 65° from the bottom of the blade. Doesn't take but a light touch to the fine wheel to get it sharp. Stone may push up a slight burr on the top edge, but that just makes the blade cut better, essentially like a scraper.

 

[robo hippy]

For sharpening, just touch up the face of the cutter, not the top as said. I use a rough diamond hone, or just briefly touch it to the grinder.

As far as cutting profiles on the McNaughton, I tried them all, bevel to the right, bevel to the left, spear point, and square. None of them did seem to make any difference on how the tool tracks in the cut, it wants to drift towarde the outside. The newer spear points are different in one major thing. The old points were proud of the blade on the outside only. The newer ones are proud on both sides of the blade (centering rather than being off to one side). This makes a big difference if you have to correct the cut towards the inside (go shallower). This was almost impossible for me to do with the old blades. The spear points are a Mahoney invention. The spear point is best for coring crotches and burl wood where you have to cut the blank all the way off as opposed to cutting it most of the way down and then breaking off the core. With burl and crotch wood, because of grain orientation, if you break them out, you risk pulling out the bottom of your core. I have done this through 1/2 inch thick wood.

If you would like my DVD, contact me directly.

Robust robo hippy

 

[Mark Mandell]

The newer spear points are different in one major thing. The old points were proud of the blade on the outside only. The newer ones are proud on both sides of the blade (centering rather than being off to one side). This makes a big difference if you have to correct the cut towards the inside (go shallower).

My tips are flared evenly to both sides of the knife. Perhaps that why they seem to handle better with the center point. It's still a pretty blunt spear with an angle of about 120° about like a drill bit grind.

I've also noticed that the shavings are smaller. Is that a function of the two cut faces and the point?

 

[georgetroy]

Somewhat off the subject, but it's all about processing logs to get the most out of them. Effective this year, I no longer use solid halves from logs, I split them in 1" planks on the bandsaw to use for segmented turning. My big high dollar Robust, Powermatic, Vicmarc, and DVR is now used to do little stuff under 10" dia. mostly. I don't have the strength to use the coring tools anymore, not that I had them in the first place. GT

 

[Sean Troy]

Thanks for the tip on sharpening. Mine could sure use it

 

[Bill Grumbine]

Somewhat off the subject, but it's all about processing logs to get the most out of them. Effective this year, I no longer use solid halves from logs, I split them in 1" planks on the bandsaw to use for segmented turning. My big high dollar Robust, Powermatic, Vicmarc, and DVR is now used to do little stuff under 10" dia. mostly. I don't have the strength to use the coring tools anymore, not that I had them in the first place. GT

GT, if your tool is set up properly, the only strength you need is to hold the handle up. It can be done with one or two fingers! You will need more muscle to get the wood on the lathe than to use the coring tool.

Bill

 

[MichaelMouse]

I too had to read that a couple of times. I think (he should chime in) that he turns alot more bowls and end up with the same amount of shavings as before coring

Way I read it as well. Ability to do more leads to doing more.

Of course the tendency to run toward the larger diameter is simple physics. It's something a lot of us take advantage of when working inside of bowls. The draw toward the larger diameter is what guides my bevel where I've been without any extra input.

 

[robo hippy]

Yes, I think? In the same amount of time, I can turn a lot more bowls, so there are as many or more shavings than if I turned out the insides rather than coring. A 4 bowl set, starting at 6 by 14 inches takes about 45 to 50 minutes, and the first bowl takes about 25 minutes with coring. I have no idea how long it would take me to turn out a bowl without coring. Probably would add 5 minutes or so. Green wood, and this is after 10 years of turning a lot of bowls. I have no idea, I never bothered to count, but in the neighborhood of 700 more or less per year.
robo hippy