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My lathe keeps walking on me.

Sam Fleisher

Sam Fleisher

Joined
Dec 29, 2022
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I have some of that interlocking floor tile stuff from HF but I think it's too soft. What are some ideas for something fairly thin to stick under the round feet of my lathe to keep it from scooting around from out of balance blanks etc.?
Cheaper the better. I don't want to use wood because the shop is fairly damp and I'm afraid eventually it might cause some rust issues.
I don't want to bolt it down because I might want to move it to a different spot someday and I'm not getting any younger or more flexible to get down there and drill holes etc..

I figure to lift it up, clean the floor of saw dust so what ever I use doesn't slide around, maybe even glue whatever I come up with and then set the lathe down on top. I'm sure there is something that can be re-purposed but I'm drawing a blank. I thought of tire sidewalls but none of those laying around at the moment.

Ideas?
 
Does your lathe have adjustable feet? First thing to check is if the feet are all fully bearing the lathe’s weight. Then I’d try adding weight to the lathe. Sandbags or gravel on a shelf underneath. A seriously out of balance piece will cause the lathe to vibrate and potentially move unless it is bolted down.
 
Butt some cleats to your lathe base and screw them to the floor. It won't stop the rocking but the lathe should stay in place. I would use wood but you could source some rubber, plastic or metal as well. If the space is damp enough to rust equipment, deal with that issue- drainage, dehumidifier, etc.
 
I had the same problem even when the feet were applying even pressure due to a slightly angled floor and slick concrete. I got these rubber pads and found they helped a lot. Now with some vibration I don’t get nearly as much walking.

with that being said make sure the legs are evenly applying pressure to the floor first. After leveling the machine with a level I put a board way off center in a chuck and turned up the lathe until I got some vibration and them readjusted the feet until the vibration was minimized. Doing this helped the most, and the rubber pads then help to keep it in place.
 
1st, remove the tile stuff from under the lathe feet, it is too thick and soft. Just cut out the areas for the feet. Try that.

If you do need something under the feet, try pieces of horse stall mat - pretty firm stuff.

Whater you end up with, getting as much weight as close as possible to the spindle CL, will help more the anything (other than making sure your lathe and legs/stand are very stiff, such that they act as one structure).
 
If the lathe is walking, that's nature's way of telling you to slow down and get things balanced. Remember,the wood will break before the lathe breaks. Broken rotating wood can cause a very bad day. You've already gotten some good advise in this thread, I'd add that a good choice for rubber pads under the lathe is something very firm like conveyor belting. We use "baler belting". This is available by the foot at any farm supply store. Usually available in 3" and 4" widths, this is the long belting used in round balers. Cut it in squares with your bandsaw.
 
I did a demo once up in Portland where they were in an old school on a gym floor. They used a couple of cedar shims, which are used for setting doors and windows and tapped them under one foot, which may have been left a bit high intentionally. Other than that, for me, get the lathe spot on level, side to side and end to end. Put an unbalanced piece of wood on it. Slightly raise one of the feet so it is floating. Turn the lathe on. Adjust that one foot down till the lathe pretty much stops vibration. I have found it good to go 1/8 or so of a turn more because when I tighten up the leveling nuts, it kind of sucks things down a bit tighter. You may have to do this a couple of times to get it almost perfect. The feet do stabilize best if they are on concrete. If you are in a garage, the floors are sloped, and even if pressure is identical on all 4 feet, the lathe will want to walk down hill. I used a Sharpie to mark where the feet are when 'perfect' so when it walks away, I can slide it back without having to level everything back up again.

robo hippy
 
robo hippy said:
I did a demo once up in Portland where they were in an old school on a gym floor. They used a couple of cedar shims, which are used for setting doors and windows and tapped them under one foot, which may have been left a bit high intentionally. Other than that, for me, get the lathe spot on level, side to side and end to end. Put an unbalanced piece of wood on it. Slightly raise one of the feet so it is floating. Turn the lathe on. Adjust that one foot down till the lathe pretty much stops vibration. I have found it good to go 1/8 or so of a turn more because when I tighten up the leveling nuts, it kind of sucks things down a bit tighter. You may have to do this a couple of times to get it almost perfect. The feet do stabilize best if they are on concrete. If you are in a garage, the floors are sloped, and even if pressure is identical on all 4 feet, the lathe will want to walk down hill. I used a Sharpie to mark where the feet are when 'perfect' so when it walks away, I can slide it back without having to level everything back up again.

robo hippy
Click to expand...
Luckily, I had marked mine when I installed and leveled back in 18 or 19 I believe. Otherwise I don't notice it walks but every couple of weeks I look and it's moved 3-4 inches off my marks. This is an old house that I grew up in and for whatever reason dad had painted the concrete floor downstairs with a gloss paint so it's pretty slick. Treacherous to walk on sometimes with dry shavings on it. That's why I put a bunch of superglue down and sprinkled sand in it where I stand.
I don't want to put anything too thick under the feet but I'm considering cutting up a thin (1/8"?) cheap rubber car floor mat and placing circles under the feet to stop the sliding. Just something to give it some drag on the slick paint.
 
Sam Fleisher said:
I don't want to put anything too thick under the feet but I'm considering cutting up a thin (1/8"?) cheap rubber car floor mat and placing circles under the feet to stop the sliding. Just something to give it some drag on the slick paint.
Click to expand...
There is very sharp, low grit “paper” for steps etc, with psa backing. Probably perfect for this application.

FYI - you might consider another coat of paint on the floor with grit added in - stuff I used years ago was “shark skin” I think, but there are various types available.
 
For vibration dampening pads see

www.mcmaster.com

McMaster-Carr

McMaster-Carr is the complete source for your plant with over 595,000 products. 98% of products ordered ship from stock and deliver same or next day.
www.mcmaster.com www.mcmaster.com

But the lathe should be level and all feet firmly on the floor, no rocking.

Stu
 
Concerning pads under the feet of your lathe, I would think all you are concerned about is that they are made of a likely anti-skid material rather than thickness. A thin rubber pad would likely be better than some of the thicker ones.

I would agree with a number of others. The 3 factors that I'd be most concerned about are:
1. All 4 feet are solidly on the floor.
2.The lathe has enough mass to prevent excessive vibration. The Powermatic 3520C I have, for example weighs over 700 pounds. There isn't much that can make it vibrate except blanks that are a lot out of balance. If that occurs, the speed has to be turned down till it is more in balance.
4.Lathe speed. The temptation is to get the blank in balance quickly because it's not really a relaxing, pleasing experience to be truing up a piece that is severely out of balance (at least for me it isn't). However, I have learned that there is no pay-off to spinning a blank too fast. The correct speed is the one that doesn't cause excessive vibration or doesn't feel safe.
 
To spread the load on pads you can use a piece of plywood with an indent to hold the lathe foot on top of the rubber. Thus a 50 psi pad 2"x2" can support a 50x4=200# load. 4 legs would support a Powermatic.
 
Some good advise but no one has addressed the cause. When you mount a piece turn it by hand and adjust to get the least out of balance. When you start turning move the speed up till vibration starts and then back it down til smooths out some. As to pads I have lock together flooring from a drug store. Similar to this: Rubber Tiles Extended search might find singles. Mine is 1/2 inch I think.
 
I ended up re-leveling (hopefully with a good/better level) the lathe with gorilla anti skid tape on the floor and some more added weight. Total of 320 added pounds now. Sand with a little concrete mixed in because concrete is what I had as weight before. So grizzly says the lathe weighs 490 pounds add the 320 and various accessories I figure at least 810 pounds minimum.

IMG_20230614_105708949.jpg
 
Sam,

The other thing that might be a good idea to check just to be sure after releveling, etc. is whether the head and tail stock are aligned. I'm not an expert on this but my understanding is that, if there is any possibility the frame might flex during the leveling process, it is possible to bring the head and tail stock out of alignment; probably not a high likelihood, but worth a check. I did check my Powermatic after leveling (although the floor was luckily very close to level to begin with) even though the 3520's frame doesn't really have any flex because of its mass.

Others with more experience than I have may feel this isn't necessary.
 
Sam Fleisher said:
I ended up re-leveling (hopefully with a good/better level) the lathe with gorilla anti skid tape on the floor and some more added weight. Total of 320 added pounds now. Sand with a little concrete mixed in because concrete is what I had as weight before. So grizzly says the lathe weighs 490 pounds add the 320 and various accessories I figure at least 810 pounds minimum.
Click to expand...
I suspect you will find a profound difference in how the lathe handles unbalanced blanks. Please give an update when you have tested things out. Doing a check of HS/TS alignment is in order, quickly done with centers in each.
 
Doug Freeman said:
I suspect you will find a profound difference in how the lathe handles unbalanced blanks. Please give an update when you have tested things out. Doing a check of HS/TS alignment is in order, quickly done with centers in each.
Click to expand...
I did that yesterday,. When I originally got the lathe the alignment was perfect with the grizzly attachments. Yesterday, it was off just a touch with the axminster stuff. So to me that begs the question was it always off with the questionable quality of the grizzly items or has something torqued? I have some stainless leaf shims if I can find them. Shouldn't take much.
 
Sam Fleisher said:
I did that yesterday,. When I originally got the lathe the alignment was perfect with the grizzly attachments. Yesterday, it was off just a touch with the axminster stuff. So to me that begs the question was it always off with the questionable quality of the grizzly items or has something torqued? I have some stainless leaf shims if I can find them. Shouldn't take much.
Click to expand...
Adj the lathe leveling feet to see if that brings it in.
 
Doug Freeman said:
Adj the lathe leveling feet to see if that brings it in.
Click to expand...
If I adjust the leveling feet then wouldn't the lathe be un level again? I guess actual levelness of the ways isn't important in the big picture though probably.

Interestingly I put the original drive spur and live center that came with the lathe in and they lined up great. Grizzly spur with axminster live center were fine as well. Axminster chuck with the spur piece they have that is held in the jaws is what doesn't line up with the other two as well as it might, but it's not off by much.
The pic is the original spur and live center. It looks worse in the picture because I blew it up so much. They are actually sharper than what they look like in that pic. I did stick a couple of .001 shims under the back front corner of the headstock. Couldn't get any under the opposite side.

IMG_20230615_113837734.jpg
 
I think you’ll find that the the spur drive in the chuck is not as dependably centered as if you just put it in the spindle. Because it has a Morse taper, and the jaws of the chuck are square to the bed, you can tighten it many different ways in the chuck and it’s not always centered. Test it by just putting it in the chuck and running it. It you see a wobble in the tip, it’s not perfectly centered. Now try it in the spindle without the chuck.
 
Pretty sure the following doesn't really contribute anything useful, but talking about alignment and seeing pictures of centers touching (or not) always makes me remember....
I turned for many years on a wooden wood lathe I made. Bed ways were laminated baltic birch plywood. Had to re-align the head/tail stock often. After a couple decades, the movement became too much to deal with.
Anyway,
I never was able to rely on just bringing the centers together. That's ok if you're turning something with no length to it :) But once you draw the tailstock back on the ways, it may no longer be aligned (i.e if the bed is twisted or something). So you gotta check at several spots down the bed. I was reasonably successful sighting thru the spindle and tailstock quill - if I could stand back, close one eye, and see all the way thru both it was probably good enough.
Now, this doesn't really apply to a good solid metal wood lathe, except that sometimes you got all 4 feet apparently on the floor but one foot is off just enough to torque things a bit.
Again, not sure why I'm throwing this out there except that I felt like sharing....
 
Lou Jacobs said:
I think you’ll find that the the spur drive in the chuck is not as dependably centered as if you just put it in the spindle. Because it has a Morse taper, and the jaws of the chuck are square to the bed, you can tighten it many different ways in the chuck and it’s not always centered. Test it by just putting it in the chuck and running it. It you see a wobble in the tip, it’s not perfectly centered. Now try it in the spindle without the chuck.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure if you know what the spur drive I was talking about in the chuck looks like. It's specifically made to fit in the axminster chuck it won't go in the spindle. The only spur drive I have with a morse taper is the grizzly one. The pic is the whole thing, it's not very long. There's only one way to tighten it in the chuck, it's self centering. Regardless, adding it to the length of the chuck is probably what is compounding the off centerness. (is that a word?)

So since I rarely use the spur drive I'll consider it good enough for the government work I do.
 

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If you doubt your chuck-fitting drive center (the ones that are made to fit in a scroll chuck's jaws) is not centered, it is awfully easy to visually (or even by feel) check by focusing on the point when you turn on the lathe at speed, you can readily see whether it is even a hair (hundreds of thousandths of an inch) off center because when it is spinning, it'll appear blurry - if it is perfectly centered, you won't be able to tell if the point is spinning or standing still - that is, if your center point remains nicely polished with no dings or scratches to it - (You do need to train your focus to not see the spinning spur drive teeth, but it can be done easily enough) That is how I check (and have to re-center about 50% of the time I chuck it up for use) with my steb center drive. so if you spin 'er up and can see that your drive center point is on center, then you can be pretty sure if your live center point lines up point to point with it, then pretty safe bet your centerline is running true. (assuming, that is, your lathe bed doesn't cause variations in how your tailstock lines up)
 
Brian Gustin said:
If you doubt your chuck-fitting drive center (the ones that are made to fit in a scroll chuck's jaws) is not centered, it is awfully easy to visually (or even by feel) check by focusing on the point when you turn on the lathe at speed, you can readily see whether it is even a hair (hundreds of thousandths of an inch) off center because when it is spinning, it'll appear blurry - if it is perfectly centered, you won't be able to tell if the point is spinning or standing still - that is, if your center point remains nicely polished with no dings or scratches to it - (You do need to train your focus to not see the spinning spur drive teeth, but it can be done easily enough) That is how I check (and have to re-center about 50% of the time I chuck it up for use) with my steb center drive. so if you spin 'er up and can see that your drive center point is on center, then you can be pretty sure if your live center point lines up point to point with it, then pretty safe bet your centerline is running true. (assuming, that is, your lathe bed doesn't cause variations in how your tailstock lines up)
Click to expand...
I should have said that different, off center to me just means it doesn't line up point to point exactly with the tailstock live center when you bring it close. It's probably a result of your last thought there that the lathe bed is causing variations. And at the end of the day how far off causes problems? I use a faceplate ring or a worm screw for greenwood and the twice turned bowls I get rid of the tailstock as soon as I can to give me more room to work.
 
Randy Heinemann said:
Concerning pads under the feet of your lathe, I would think all you are concerned about is that they are made of a likely anti-skid material rather than thickness. A thin rubber pad would likely be better than some of the thicker ones.

I would agree with a number of others. The 3 factors that I'd be most concerned about are:
1. All 4 feet are solidly on the floor.
2.The lathe has enough mass to prevent excessive vibration. The Powermatic 3520C I have, for example weighs over 700 pounds. There isn't much that can make it vibrate except blanks that are a lot out of balance. If that occurs, the speed has to be turned down till it is more in balance.
4.Lathe speed. The temptation is to get the blank in balance quickly because it's not really a relaxing, pleasing experience to be truing up a piece that is severely out of balance (at least for me it isn't). However, I have learned that there is no pay-off to spinning a blank too fast. The correct speed is the one that doesn't cause excessive vibration or doesn't feel safe.
Click to expand...
You don't think the engineers who design anti-vibration pads know what they are doing? I've used thick pads chosen for the weight of the machine successfully for about 35 years. They do what they are designed to do. Have you used any, or just an assumption? If have an engineering degree and studied machine dynamics, please accept my apology.
 
Richard Coers said:
You don't think the engineers who design anti-vibration pads know what they are doing? I've used thick pads chosen for the weight of the machine successfully for about 35 years. They do what they are designed to do. Have you used any, or just an assumption? If have an engineering degree and studied machine dynamics, please accept my apology.
Click to expand...
You said that the ones you linked were for 50 psi. This type says 60 psi., Does it defeat the purpose to have too heavy a duty foot? Total weight on the feet I figure no more than 850 pounds. The 60 psi mentions 960 pounds on each pad. Does that sound right? I believe grizzly feet are 50 mm diameter.

 
<You said that the ones you linked were for 60 psi. Does it defeat the purpose to have too heavy a duty foot? Total weight on the feet I figure no more than 850 pounds. The 60 psi mentions 960 pounds on each pad. Does that sound right? I believe grizzly feet are 50 mm diameter.>

4" x 4" =16 sq in x 60psi = 960#. 50mm is about 2" dia or 3 sq in = 180# per leg x 4 = 720#, a bit low, use a plywood spacer at least 3" sq with an indentation for the leg pad to spread the load.
Stu
 
stu senator said:
<You said that the ones you linked were for 60 psi. Does it defeat the purpose to have too heavy a duty foot? Total weight on the feet I figure no more than 850 pounds. The 60 psi mentions 960 pounds on each pad. Does that sound right? I believe grizzly feet are 50 mm diameter.>

4" x 4" =16 sq in x 60psi = 960#. 50mm is about 2" dia or 3 sq in = 180# per leg x 4 = 720#, a bit low, use a plywood spacer at least 3" sq with an indentation for the leg pad to spread the load.
Stu
Click to expand...
So I should put the round pad of the lathe in an indentation of a 3 inch square of plywood and then put that on top of the rubber 60 psi pads?

I'm going to need shorter arms or a platform to stand on.

Is it considered overloaded on the feet now with being 820 pounds roughly total on the feet? Or does just sitting on concrete make it different?
 
Oh my, a wood lathe is not a cnc metal machining center.

@Sam Fleisher you did not mention you were using a chuck mounted center to check alignment - would have said to use an mt center. How close do centers need to align - depends on the project. For bowls, hollow forms, etc not real close, as the TS isnt involved in the final turning. Its been so long since I did a project where it mattered I have forgotten what it was - some kind of kit thing I think.

You’ve made positive changes with your lathe setup - use it, see how it works, revisit if lathe movement is an issue. Address actual, practical problems, not theoretical ones.
 
Lou Jacobs said:
I agree with Doug. The place where allignment seems to matter most to me is when drilling from the tailstock. Then, even a slight misalignment will create a slightly oversized hole.
Click to expand...
This is only if the axis are parallel, if not the hole will be at an angle to the axis of the turning outside diameter, not good if the ID is necessary for the project such as a pepper grinder, then the axis should be in line to make a hole concentric to the OD.
Stu
 
Sam Fleisher said:
So I should put the round pad of the lathe in an indentation of a 3 inch square of plywood and then put that on top of the rubber 60 psi pads?
Click to expand...
Yes, a minimum of 3" x 3" or larger to fit the rubber pad size.
Sam Fleisher said:
I'm going to need shorter arms or a platform to stand on.
Click to expand...

How about high heels, or see my earlier post for a better assortment of pads.

www.mcmaster.com

McMaster-Carr

McMaster-Carr is the complete source for your plant with over 595,000 products. 98% of products ordered ship from stock and deliver same or next day.
www.mcmaster.com www.mcmaster.com
Sam Fleisher said:
Is it considered overloaded on the feet now with being 820 pounds roughly total on the feet? Or does just sitting on concrete make it different?
Click to expand...
Put a 100# out of balance log on and even at low speed the force downward will be greater then the lathe and log combined. So yes the load is OK on the supplied foot as it was designed for that kind of load, but not the vibration pad. If you use a vibration pad make the spacer as large as the pad and pick a pad that is enginered for the load plus a safety factor.
Stu
 
Stu, I believe that the hole will be oversized in any circumstance IF the drill is in the tail stock. If the drill were in the headstock and the piece were in the tail stock not turning, then I’d agree with you, that you’d simply get an out of alignment hole. But with the piece revolving, I believe (I’m saying that because I’ve learned not to be certain of much) ANY misalignment of headstock and tailstock will result in an oversized hole.
 
Sam Fleisher said:
You said that the ones you linked were for 50 psi. This type says 60 psi., Does it defeat the purpose to have too heavy a duty foot? Total weight on the feet I figure no more than 850 pounds. The 60 psi mentions 960 pounds on each pad. Does that sound right? I believe grizzly feet are 50 mm diameter.

Click to expand...
I always go over the static load rating. Once the lathe wants to vibrate, there is an active load concern as Stu mentions. I always use the green layered rubber pads.
 
Lou Jacobs said:
Stu, I believe that the hole will be oversized in any circumstance IF the drill is in the tail stock. If the drill were in the headstock and the piece were in the tail stock not turning, then I’d agree with you, that you’d simply get an out of alignment hole. But with the piece revolving, I believe (I’m saying that because I’ve learned not to be certain of much) ANY misalignment of headstock and tailstock will result in an oversized hole.
Click to expand...
If the work rotates and the drill is steady, (no vibration) and axis parallel the hole will be over size and concentric to the outer surface.

If the drill rotates and the work is steady the hole could be the correct size but it may not be concentric or parallel with the turned outer surfaces.

But the drill seems to vibrate (for me) depending on the type of drill, the grain of the wood and the construction (stiffness) of the lathe, drill shank and chuck..

If you need a concentric hole to a specific dimension drill smaller then bore with a single point turning tool as you did the outside surface.

Stu
 
This problem sounds familiar, I had the same problem with my first lathe and my first wife, all of my problems went away
after I got a new lathe and a new wife. :)
 
My understanding of putting vibration pads under the feet of heavy equipment was to protect the welds, especially at the feet. Bolting directly to the floor can cause stress that can break welds and weaken the steel.
When used in a lathe, won’t the rubber, however stiff, let the lathe vibrate, shake, especially furthest from the pads, ie at the work?
I found that with my lathe, a way too light Nova, my vibrations were reduced when I took it off the rubber feet and put it directly on the concrete.
 
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