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Need Advice From the Hollow Form Folks

Kent Reisdorph

Kent Reisdorph

Joined
Sep 19, 2023
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Columbia, TN
About a year ago, I posted pictures of a mulberry with a hole through the pith. Someone said, "That would make a great hollow form." Today I cut a section of that log and mounted it. I have rough turned it. Unfortunately, I probably took too much material off the bottom and now the hole is down near the bottom rather than centered. I'm curious how you HF folk would shape this at this point.

What profile would you go for here? I'm not opposed to you drawing lines on my photo. ;) I can probably turn it around if needed.

IMG_20240923_115644.jpg
 
When I look at it, I see a round-bottomed form with the bottom on the left (in the drive center). There's probably room there for a tenon. Not sure about the tailstock side. That flair might make a nice top. But you might get better effect from the void by loosing most of that and just have a mostly-roundish form. Hard to judge from one picture.
 
Thanks, Dave. I thought about that. I think it would work to turn it around. The flare was just an artifact from shaping, but it might be usable.
 
Hi Kent, I agree with Dave. The spherical shape can be helped by putting a mild "neck" off the top and tapering the neck up into a relatively small hole. I visualize the neck about half as tall as the wood you have left there now at the live center end.

Plan "B" might be to turn it upside down. The neck now is where the drive center is. The base now has lots of waste wood for a faceplate, stronger and safer holding. Continue the bulbous shape of the bottom with a rather small foot to sit on the table that will give it some lift and lightness. Dont be afraid to turn it thin, just take it in stages and dont go back to the top once it is thin.
 
I would 2nd Dave’s & Lyles too.

If you pull the left side in a bit you will have the windows centered on a spherical shape.
I always probe the inside of hollows a bit to be sure there is no hidden soft spots where I want to hold it on the lathe.
IMG_2121.jpeg


Then you can design a foot and rim openings you like. I like a round bottom with no foot.

A sphere with a through hollow makes a nice piece with no hollowing.
You have that available too.
Can’t find a photo.
 
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hockenbery said:
A sphere with a through hollow makes a nice piece with no hollowing.
Click to expand...

I've been thinking about this after reading your comment. I thought, why hollow it more at all (which is what you were suggesting)? I started hollowing, and it's pretty rough going with that void and my lack of a hollowing system. The wood is stable and the pith is gone. It isn't going to crack. Other than the weight and the cool factor, perhaps hollowing doesn't buy me much. The walls are about 5/8" currently.
 
Kent Reisdorph said:
pretty rough going with that void and my lack of a hollowing system
Click to expand...
Sounds like you’re getting there!

Interupted cut hollowing is one reason I don’t do twice turned HFs. Just a bother to hollow.
Voids make it worthwhile hollowing the interrupted surfaces.

Easier with a hollowing system. With hollows I go slowly. About 1/2 or 1/3 of the normal hollowing speed. With voids the shavings go out through the voids - a big plus. Very important to get the wall thickness at the rim and go down the wall in 1-2” increments. Need the thicker walls at the base to keep the vibration down.
If I wanted a 3/16” wall I would start that 3/16 wall from the rim when the form was around 3/4-1/2” thick and probably not hollow the bottom at all until I was forming the wall. Then form the wall in increments 1-3” then the next increment untill I’m shaping the bottom.

You are correct that your form is unlikely to crack with 5/8 thick walls.
I’ve done a half dozen spheres with a through hollow - none of them cracked.

You can get a pretty good idea of how it looks with the wall thickness you have.
If it looks good stop. Of it looks off hollow more but you sort of have to commit to a final thickness target and hollow from the rim down.
I want a really even wall thickness around the voids.
 
Regarding hollow forms I don't get it. So often HF's are posted with voids. What's the point? Is the concept that the piece has more artistic merit because of the difficulty working around the voids?

On Youtube I saw a piece from SWAT 2024 that was at least 75% void. That piece brought up a whole lot of questions to me of how it was turned. Maybe it should have gotten an award for difficulty in execution.

Are difficult pieces done more to impress other turners? My turnings are primarily utilitarian, if they happen to appeal to others because of form that's all the better. I have posted a variety of pieces that would be difficult by normal hand turning techniques to show the versatility of my CNC.
 
My bowls are mostly utilitarian. While I am just getting started on my HF journey, I see hollow forms as more art than utility. From what I have read here, HFs sell more quickly and command a greater price than do bowls. For whatever reason, people like them. I'm making HFs to expand my skill set.

Edit: I don't think the void makes the HF more valuable, just more interesting.
 
Doug Rasmussen said:
What's the point? Is the concept that the piece has more artistic merit because of the difficulty working around the voids?
Click to expand...

There are many reasons for using voids.

- There is challenge in turning a piece with voids.

- As a maker I get a satisfaction from turning a piece with voids. I see the voids in the blank, I fine tune the void locations by shifting centers, I hold the piece together with careful turning, I might create reinforcement with wires and tape.

- Customers appreciate the added esthetics of voids.

- A well done piece with voids commands a higher price

- A well done piece with voids usually sells quickly.

- well turned hollow form with voids holds dreams - won’t hold soup worth a darn
 
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Doug Rasmussen said:
Regarding hollow forms I don't get it. So often HF's are posted with voids. What's the point? Is the concept that the piece has more artistic merit because of the difficulty working around the voids?

On Youtube I saw a piece from SWAT 2024 that was at least 75% void. That piece brought up a whole lot of questions to me of how it was turned. Maybe it should have gotten an award for difficulty in execution.

Are difficult pieces done more to impress other turners? My turnings are primarily utilitarian, if they happen to appeal to others because of form that's all the better. I have posted a variety of pieces that would be difficult by normal hand turning techniques to show the versatility of my CNC.
Click to expand...
The utility value of most hollow forms is very low (unless you count the "utility" of simple enjoyment of beauty).
One thing I like is "collaboration" with nature. I enjoy the challenge of making a pleasing form that combines my turning with what nature has done (and allows the form to continue to be pleasing). Sometimes this involves grain/figure. Sometimes natural edges. Sometimes voids. (and sometimes none of these). But I like when I can successfully intersect my form with Mother Nature's work.
As with any "art" object, not everyone will like it, and not everyone will "get it". That's ok.
 
hockenbery said:
There are many reasons for using voids.

- There is challenge in turning a piece with voids.

- As a maker I get a satisfaction from turning a piece with voids. I see the voids in the blank, I fine tune the void locations by shifting centers, I hold the piece together with careful turning, I might create reinforcement with wires and tape.

- Customers appreciate the added esthetics of voids.

- A well done piece with voids commands a higher price

- A well done piece with voids usually sells quickly.

- well turned hollow form with voids holds dreams - won’t hold soup worth a darn
Click to expand...
And the void lets you see inside the form while you’re hollowing it — an incorporated window!
 
I've only handled one HF, that was a John Jordan piece. He let me handle it because we knew each other years ago from another forum unrelated to woodturning. I admired the piece from the visual strength it projected. His wife cautioned me to be careful. I braced myself to hold it with two hands thinking it would be fairly heavy. It was so light I almost threw it back over my head by the surprise of its paper thin weight. I came away thinking that piece betrays its visual impression. It was like a fake, a movie prop.

Handling wood forms is one thing I like about woodturnings. You relate to the object by its contours, smoothness, solidness and warmth. From John's piece any illusions I had about it were shattered.

I don't know about the sales of HF's. The only gallery I visit on a regular basis is the Wood Merchant 60 miles north of Seattle in a tourist town, been there for 30 years. They never seem to have any HF's, quite a selection of bowls though including Dale Larson's and pretty much anything else turned. About 99% utilitarian items, probably because that's what sells.. They must be doing something right, 30 years is a long time for any gallery much less a made in USA, wood only gallery.
 
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