Need opinions on this box and finial

[David Wyke]

I was asked to make a lidded box and it’s not something I make often, actually been a couple years since I made one. I turned this one today and wanted to try a spiral carved finial for the lid, still need to sand it a little more. This is the first time I’ve ever tried a spiral finial and think it turned out okay for a first.

Question is, do you think it’s too big for this box? The box is 5” tall x 7-1/2” diameter, finial is 3-1/4” tall. It looks bigger in the photo than it do in person.
Box is black walnut, finial is maple. I’m considering using black India ink on the finial, what do you think???

 

[John K Jordan]

To me the finial looks a bit too fancy for the elegant shape of the rest of the piece and the color doesn't "feel" right. Black might be better - the white looks a little plasticy. Just my opinion. Worth what you paid for it.

Since it's a box, might consider something shorter and knobby.

JKJ

 

[Phil Hamel]

I like the size and shape. I think once you finish the walnut it will make the maple shine just the way it is. I would even make it white.

 

[David Wyke]

To me the finial looks a bit too fancy for the elegant shape of the rest of the piece and the color doesn't "feel" right. Black might be better - the white looks a little plasticy. Just my opinion. Worth what you paid for it.

Since it's a box, might consider something shorter and knobby.

JKJ

Thank John! Checks in the mail
I agree, black finial may look better.

 

[Ted Pelfrey]

I like everything about it but would go black.

 

[Kent Jaffrey]

I admire the fluted finial but think it might be a little fancy. I really like the bottom part of the finial so thought this might be a more complementary option (black may be nice also)

 

[Jim Reynolds]

Okay, if fluted is too fancy then go all in and paint it gold or silver. I suggest you put the finish on the bottom before making your final finial coloring decision. If you do consider painting the finial, some rough prototypes that you paint might inform your color decision.

The American Woodturner article A Closer Look at Ornament Finials by Janice Levi might be helpful.

Well done and good luck.

 

[Don Wattenhofer]

I think the best design of a finial involves decreasing diameters as you work from the base of the finial to the tip. The details I think look better if they include both convex and concave surfaces. The entire lid would look better if the convex / concave concept were applied, plus a little overhang may also help and the grain match doesn't add anything to the design.

 

[Richard Coers]

The base of the finial is out of scale with the spiral shaft. That makes it look top heavy.

 

[Dean Center]

Good comments. You all have me looking and thinking hard about David's question. Thanks.

 

[Alan Weinberg]

I don’t like finials but this one is cool. I vote for black also.

 

[John K Jordan]

I forgot to mention what I almost always do when pondering design decisions: I make a sketch or sketches of ideas and options, dimensions, shapes. With design on paper I let my mind's eye vary the detail, color, and finish. This works better for me than turning and fitting. Some people are very good at designing the entire thing in the mind or while the wood is spinning but I'm unreliable at times, especially on pieces with multiple parts that fit together. I might draw a half-dozen options before I decide.

Here's one such sketch when designing a footed box with taper-fit lid, brass feet, and knob-finial. I did considerable thinking and erasing and redrawing, all before the blank was mounted in the chuck. No color decisions needed on this one once I decided on the materials.




I also sometimes make separate sketches of process steps so I don't forget and cut off a tenon or something needed later!

JKJ

 

[Bill Blasic]

I like it as it is different and not run of the mill. Once the walnut has been finished I think it will look even better.

 

[Vincent Vogel]

I like the shape because of the spiral and it's not the same as most. I also vote for black, but I would wait until the finish is on the walnut to make that dedision.

 

[Mark Fairchild]

David, I agree with some others. Dye it black and call it done. Nice piece!

 

[David Wyke]

Thanks everyone for the replies! You have given me some things to consider and I’ll try to figure it out today.
I may turn one a little thinner today and see how it looks.

 

[Barry Larson]

David:
In my opinion, and that's worth exactly what you pay for it, the box is excellent. The shape, as someone else pointed out is very hollow form like and pleasing at least to my eye, the grain match is also excellent; if you didn't plan that you should buy a lottery ticket right away! The cherry on top though is the finial. I like the shape and the spiral flute very much and the contrasting colour of the maple goes well with the walnut. Who wrote the law about finials having to be black and extremely pointy anyway I think it was made to be broken! Well done; so well done in fact, I plan to blatantly copy this idea including the finial!

Cheers.

Barry W. Larson
Calgary, Alberta - currently in S. Ontario, Canada eh!

 

[John K Jordan]

Fill in the blank...

Who wrote the law about finials having to be ... ____________

Over the years I've gotten grief from the self-appointed "Woodturning Police" elsewhere with comments like "That box lid doesn't have the right proportion" or "Your spindle is too thin" or "That finish is not glossy enough".

My answer to all of these is, quoting my brother-in-law: That's what YOU think.
Who appointed these police? Where did they get their narrow-minded license?

Opinions, especially when asked for, are entirely different. But if we all had to make things the same way life would be so boring. I'd quit all this and take up cactus farming.

JKJ

 

[Bill Alston]

In spite of what some others have said, the finial looks fine to me.

 

[rkriet]

David, I like this piece, and I would agree with others that the black finial would work well. If I were to try to improve the finial, I might make it a bit thinner and lighter, and I would also make the transitions at the bottom of the finial in the form of gentle curves rather than sharp angles. I think this would match the flowing form of the box itself. Just my two cents.

 

[David Wyke]

Okay, I went out this morning and turned a thinner spiral finial, made just a little different. I like the black so just inked both of them.
I’m leaning toward the first one, even though it is a little bigger. But would really like to blame others if I chose the wrong one. “A” being the first picture and “B” being the second picture, I’m liking “B” better.

 

[Fred Hargis]

Well, if we're voting I'd go with B...but my appreciation of things is often off from normal folks. That said, I do like the entire piece, it's really nice.

 

[John K Jordan]

.but my appreciation of things is often off from normal folks

Ha! One thing I've learned from life is nobody is "normal"!

JKJ

 

[Tom Lucas]

It's a very nice piece. Wish I could turn those cork-screw finials like that. If I were to pick at one thing it would be the joint where the lid and body meet. Maybe you plan to refine this, but as it is, looks awkward to me. It accentuates the "corner", which I think is also too abrupt. It may move on you too, which would make it look even worse. I probably would have seamed it higher up and gave it some highlighting features.

 

[Dean Center]

There is only one vote that counts, and that's Mrs. Wyke's. If there is no Mrs. Wyke, then David, yours is the only opinion that matters.

 

[Tim Hunter]

I’d rather see more of a knob-shape on top of that box.

 

[John K Jordan]

It may move on you too, which would make it look even worse.

If it moves, and the box joint is tight, there may be more problems then how it looks - the lid might not fit. I've seen a lot of beads of courage boxes that had stuck lids. For that reason, I started making and teaching tapered lids for BOC boxes. Much easier for a kid with dexterity issues to open and close, and guaranteed not to stick.

Sometimes I do internal and sometimes external tapers.
The diagram shows an internal taper on the box. The visual aid shows an external taper on the box.


In fact, I started using tapered lids on other boxes too. Regardless of the "woodturners box vacuum pop fit" made to impress other woodturers with our skill, no user I know wants a box they have to pick up and hold with one hand while removing the lid with the other. A jewelry box on a dresser, for example, needs easy one-hand operation.

The only time I use a snug fit is for little pill boxes that can be carried in a pocket or in a sewing bag for needles.
Don't want them to open accidentally. But I make a long mortise/tenon - friction, no vacuum pop.


JKJ

 

[Bill Blasic]

Still prefer the white.

 

[Will Armstrong]

Black B! The new one is too linear. You had it from the start

 

[Kent Reisdorph]

Having read all that came before, I'll say that the finials are fine as they are. However, like John, I think I would consider a smaller, bulb-type finial. You will achieve a great result no matter how you do it.

 

[Bill Alston]

As Kent says, a bulb shape may look nicer. It could still have a twisted flute.

 

[Norm Marentette]

Beautiful work as usual David. Really admire all of your work you've made. Seem to have the same taste or design sense as your work even though I am not there yet. I personally would go with some kind of shape the same as the lidded box or some variation of a knob with some sort of texture possibly. As for finials not a huge fan, that's just me, B would be my choice. Again awesome vessel design.

 

[Ron Solfest]

My two cent vote goes for the one that sits down more (right on the pic of both, I think that's B?). While I'm offering a solicited opinion I'd also make it shorter, about half the current height.

Everyone has an opinion, only your's counts...