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New Nova DVR troubles

Z

Ziffy

Joined
May 10, 2005
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Location
Watertown, CT
Finally broke down (or more accurately, broke open my wallet...) and upgraded from my Delta Midi to a Nova DVR. I would like to say I absolutely love it, but honestly, I'm frustrated. Virtually every time I turn it on and put a 'load on the motor', i.e put a tool to the wood, it trips the GFI outlet on the circuit. Not the breaker, but the GFI. It is a 20 amp circuit and the Delta was plugged into the very same outlet and I never had this problem. It is not an overloaded circuit either, as it is dedicated to tools, and I only have one tool running at any time. Anyone else have similar issues with this machine or can offer suggestions? :confused:

Thanks in advance, Ziffy
 
Call Nova support. I don't have mine plugged into a GFI, but I know that many electronic devices won't work well with electronic noise suppressor power strips and power conditioners. Possibly a simple change of the outlet to a non-GFI version is in order.
 
Ziffy,

Take a look at the bottom of page 15 of the DVR XP manual

It mentions "Note some makes of GFI may not be compatible"

You may have run across one such incompatibility

So, it looks like the issue should be easy to resolve.



Note: each time I edit this message, the program munges the url, so I just created a new message with a link to the user manual
 
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Instructions?! I don't need no stinkin instructions!... :)

I will take a look at it, thanks. Woodcraft Technical Support had a suggestion too, to make sure the GFI outlet is a 20 amp outlet and not a 15 amp one; a technicality I may have overlooked when I wired it all up years ago.


Well, at least I can say I did not overlook that technicality... Just checked and it is in fact a 20 amp GFI outlet...
 
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Before the switch in the service centers I had called Tim Geist about the same problem. He told me to get rid of the GFI. I did and haven't had a problem in 3 yrs. I also added a surge suppresor on mine.
 
Yeah, its looking like the GFI will have to go. Makes me a little nervous as the shop is in the garage, and when it is very wet outside, moisture will come up through the concrete floor. But I really want to use that new machine...

Thanks all.

Ziffy
 
Spend the money and get a good 20amp GFCI, maybe go to a electrical contractor store in-steed of a big-box. The contractor store might (many do) stock a better quality unit then the big-box store
 
Ziffy said:
Yeah, its looking like the GFI will have to go. Makes me a little nervous as the shop is in the garage, and when it is very wet outside, moisture will come up through the concrete floor. But I really want to use that new machine...

Thanks all.

Ziffy
Click to expand...

Is the outlet in the floor?
 
No, the outlet is on the wall, and the wiring runs along the ceiling. Doesn't get really that wet; no standing water. Just dampness coming up from the ground. I can always just avoid the shop at those times and make a mess inside the house instead...:D
 
GFI and 120 voltage

I have a small Oneway (1224) that blows the (new addition 2006) GFI every time. I ended up plugging into the garage door opener circuit (in the ceiling so no GFI). In my new turning shed, I have a 240 volt circuit ready for the Oneway. My electrician will change the lathe to 240 and put in the outlet for it. I have not moved the lathe yet. I am going to check if the new (2012) GFI's will blow or not before I rewire the lathe.

Oneway confirmed (in 2006) that GFI has problems with their lathe.

Ann Herbst
 
It is very likely that your GFI outlet is rated at 15A since that is much more commonly used than 20A outlets in residential construction. I wouldn't just overlook the potential issue by replacing it with a non-GFI outlet without first verifying that there is no problem with the lathe wiring. There is always the possibility that during manufacturing something happened that caused the neutral and grounds to either create a connection or leakage path between the two. Two obvious scenarios are:

  • insulation on a neutral wire could be chafed or stripped back too far and is making connection to the metal frame which is connected to ground.
  • during assembly, a neutral wire could have been pinched in a cover plate or some other grounded part of the motor or electronics.
Either of the above would mean the loss of redundant protection.
 
Ann Hebst,
I am curious, why change your 1224 from 120 to 240 volts? I am very familiar with seven 1224's, all on 120 and no problems, except on GFI's. They don't like GFI's or vise versa. I own two, neither one on GFI's.
Jack Brown
 
It may be as simple as just trying a different brand of GFI. I have since converted my XP to 220, but it worked on a my GFI circuit just fine. Mine is a heavy duty 20 amp Cooper, from Lowes.
 
Bill: I did confirm that the outlet is a 20 amp GFI, so that is not the issue.

I do recall my father-in-law, a retired career union electrician overseeing the electrical work I did in the garage, and frankly he would never let me install an inferior product, more for his daughter and grandchildren's safety than mine, ha ha... I did replace the GFI with a regular 20 amp outlet yesterday, and no problems turning last night, so who knows. I guess there could be wiring problems in the machine itself, but I suspect they would manifest themselves with or without a GFI outlet. I imagine I will put in a dedicated, 20 amp circuit just for the lathe at some time, but right now, I'm just enjoying my new toy; so quiet and so much more power...!. Although the prospect of having to upgrade my accessories from 1"-8 to 1 1/4"-8 will prove to be expensive. And yes I did get a spindle converter.

Thanks everyone, Happy turning!

ziffy
 
Also, even a good GFCI can go bad, I've had to replace one in the house and one in the shop. Both were +20 years old (I installed them when I built the place)
 
The Nova DVR lathes use stepper motors. The motors in combination with their driver electronics generate a huge amount of electrical noise which gets conducted along and radiated from the power lines connected to the GFI devices. Since the GFI devices are trying to detect out of balance currents as low as 5 milliamperes, the hash on the power line can easily cause the detection circuit to malfunction.

If I am not mistaken, I think that the manufacturer is supposed to insure that the equipment meets certain power tool conducted and radiated interference requirements, however, small manufacturers often fly under the radar and play dumb. In cases such as this where the motor, controller, and machine are all manufactured by different companies it often boils down to a finger pointing contest of who is responsible. Actually it is the system integrator (lathe manufacturer) that has the responsibility for meeting EMC/EMI requirements although it is unlikely that many small manufacturers even give the issue a thought.
 
I have 5 VS lathes in my shop and every one of them makes the use of a radio impossible. They are a Jet 1220 vs, a Delta 46-460, a DVR, a Powermatic 3520b and an older Nova Mercury. One of my club members took our two Delta 46-460's home to use and after a short while he called and said that both lathes were not running. They started OK at first but then they started to run very slow and then one wouldn't run at all. My first question was are you using GFI equipped receptacles? The answer was yes and I told him to use a regular outlet that was not GFI. On the non GFI equipped outlet one lathe started immediately but the other would not. I thought that we had lost a lathe but the next day it started without problem and has run fine since. GFI seems to not like VS lathes.
Bill
 
Back to that isolation transformer. Costs money, will solve the GFI http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electric/gfi.html problem, because the return path for voltages from the controller is decoupled, and in most transformers, shielded as well. If you want your AM radio, it won't put in false modulation from the power line.

Oh yes, don't try to use that AM radio while you're using those universal motor or DC drills to sand, either.
 
I haven't listened to AM radio since the 60's. What is on that everyone is tuning in? I listen to satellite radio and my lathe doesn't bother it. I haven't asked my neighbors if my lathe bothers their radio. Does it travel very far?
 
Bill Boehme said:
...

If I am not mistaken, I think that the manufacturer is supposed to insure that the equipment meets certain power tool conducted and radiated interference requirements, however, small manufacturers often fly under the radar and play dumb. In cases such as this where the motor, controller, and machine are all manufactured by different companies it often boils down to a finger pointing contest of who is responsible. Actually it is the system integrator (lathe manufacturer) that has the responsibility for meeting EMC/EMI requirements although it is unlikely that many small manufacturers even give the issue a thought.
Click to expand...

If the item is designated a "consumer" item, like a radio, tv, computer, etc; yes it does. FCC regulation Part 15 covers this in the US.

However, since a Lathe, or any other power-tool, is not considered a "consumer" item, it does NOT

I do believe I have pointed this out to you before
 
120 with GFI vrs 240 without

John Brown said:
Ann Hebst,
I am curious, why change your 1224 from 120 to 240 volts? I am very familiar with seven 1224's, all on 120 and no problems, except on GFI's. They don't like GFI's or vise versa. I own two, neither one on GFI's.
Jack Brown
Click to expand...

Hi Jack,
Given I was having a separate circuit for the lathe installed, I decided to go 240 volts. That way if I ever get another lathe (doubtful) like a Stubby or VB36 I will have the circuit waiting. In the meantime, 240 circuits do not have GFI's so that solves the Oneway / GFI problem. This will only work for me if my electrician can make the switch in the motor. I have not finished that research yet.

I actually wish the lathe worked with the GFI. On my Jet mini, several years ago a friend had replaced the starting capacitor with a non-Jet replacement. It was too large for the space and one of the wire's insulation split from the heat. I found out because the GFI shut it down a few times. (Took me about 30 mins to figure out what was wrong.) I fixed it with a Jet part and fixed the wire and all was well again. As Bill Boehme noted the GFI has a purpose.
Ann
 
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