New VL300 broken for the second time in two months.

[Dan Marion]

I purchased a new VL300 back in April and received it in May. A few weeks into ownership I was taking a heavy cut when it just completely stopped. There was no power on the drive motor or the led's for the RPM readout. I spoke with Marco at Vicmarc who was very responsive and rushed me out a new filter. The filter replacement did fix the issue.

Now, a few weeks after that, almost the exact same thing has happened. Lathe just stops during a heavy cut and now there's no power in in the machine. I check the breaker, it never flipped and still provides power to other tools without issue.

I'm just wondering if anyone might have any thoughts as to what is happening and how I could prevent it. I've used the same outlet for me PM3520c for years without any electrical issues.

 

[Steve Tiedman]

Heavy cut and the motor cuts out. I'm about clueless, but could that be something in the programming of the motor drive, an adjustment for motor/drive overcurrent protection? Is there a fuse inside the drive that is failing for some reason? I dunno, I'm grasping blindly.

I know it has nothing to do with that beast of a machine it's connected to. I owned a VL300 for about 20 years, but it ran with a DC motor and drive. I still have a VL200 with the same DC motor and drive, which has served since 2002. (The Leeson DC motor and Minarik drive I use are still easily obtainable, by the way.) These are great machines, don't let some electronic gremlin sour your thoughts about the lathe itself.

 

[Terry Brown]

Heavy cut and the motor cuts out. I'm about clueless, but could that be something in the programming of the motor drive, an adjustment for motor/drive overcurrent protection? Is there a fuse inside the drive that is failing for some reason? I dunno, I'm grasping blindly.

Are the pulleys setup for high torque or high speed?

 

[hockenbery]

I'm just wondering if anyone might have any thoughts as to what is happening and how I could prevent it

I guessing you checked the reset button on motor or controls. If you haven’t it may be that a bouncy cut tripped the motor.
Using lower speed belts might eliminate it if it’s just a reset issue.

 

[Richard Coers]

Do you have the EVS version? Do you move the drive belt as well as the variable speed? You want to keep motor rpm up to run on the best torque curve. If you have the belt set on the large motor pulley and drop the rpm way down with the VFD, you get in a bad situation with motor torque and a heavy cut will trip the VFD. Put the belt on the smallest motor pulley and keep the motor rom up.

 

[Dan Marion]

I guessing you checked the reset button on motor or controls. If you haven’t it may be that a bouncy cut tripped the motor.
Using lower speed belts might eliminate it if it’s just a reset issue.

There's a reset button?? I assumed if there was Marco would have mentioned it when we were troubleshooting it the first time. It didn't feel like a bouncy cut as much as a heavy cut where a lot of torque was required.

Do you have the EVS version? Do you move the drive belt as well as the variable speed? You want to keep motor rpm up to run on the best torque curve. If you have the belt set on the large motor pulley and drop the rpm way down with the VFD, you get in a bad situation with motor torque and a heavy cut will trip the VFD. Put the belt on the smallest motor pulley and keep the motor rom up.

Yes it's the EVS version. I keep it in the middle belt position. I could see where switching it to the slowest position would help deliver more torque when turning 20+in diameters. I don't feel that should cause the machine to burn out, but should help to prevent it so thanks.

 

[robo hippy]

Well, I have the 240, keep it in mid range and have had no problems. I have not cored on it yet. I do keep it in the 30 degree pivoted angle.

robo hippy

 

[Wyatt Holm]

I have had similar issues with my vl300. The problem was voltage was too low. I had it in a shop with 212 volts and it would shut off during a heavy cut like you say, but it turns right back on in a minute. My current shop has 240 volts, no problems.

 

[Joe Kaufman]

What's the hp rating of the motor and max current input rating for the VFD?
Check that there is power to the input terminals of the VFD.

 

[Dan Marion]

I have had similar issues with my vl300. The problem was voltage was too low. I had it in a shop with 212 volts and it would shut off during a heavy cut like you say, but it turns right back on in a minute. My current shop has 240 volts, no problems.

If anything I seem to by having the opposite problem. It's a 30A outlet and the vl300 is 20A. I always thought it's fine to plug an undersized piece of equipment into an outlet but I wonder if for some reason it's drawing too much power during the heavy cuts and frying the filter.

What's the hp rating of the motor and max current input rating for the VFD?
Check that there is power to the input terminals of the VFD.

It's 3hp. No clue about anything with the vfd.

 

[Steve Tiedman]

I like what @Wyatt Holm shared, that his 2-pole voltage was down quite low. 212v 2-pole is 106v single-pole, those voltages can make for unhappy devices. Do you have a volt meter to check the voltage at the electrical outlet? Probe across the hot slots to see what the total voltage is (ideally 220-250 volts), then check each hot to the ground slot (ideally 110-125 volts). Recheck the voltages a few times over a couple days, checking at different times of the day, in particular at times that you experienced the problems. Report those voltages back to the Vicmarc rep and see what he says. If the voltage is too low for the electronics in the drive, regardless of the amp rating of the circuit, this could be another suspect in the mystery.

At my own suburban house, I've measured times where voltage has been as low as under 110 volts and lights are flickering, and as much as nearly 125 volts and everything is fine.

Think of voltage as pressure, and amps as, well, the current. A water wheel on a lazy river spins slow (lower pressure) in relation to that same water wheel on that same river, but the wheel is catching the water flow part way down over a waterfall (higher pressure with the same current). Your available amps may be there, but if there's not enough pressure (voltage) to push the current, it could lead to trouble.

To take this a step further, if you've got below normal low voltage, and the motor suddenly is asked to deliver more power under heavy load and use higher wattage, the controller may be experiencing an overcurrent condition (too much current draw due to too little available voltage) that your building 30A circuit can deliver just fine (no breaker tripping), but with too much current draw on some electronic component, maybe that is tripping/frying something out. Maybe?

Good luck!

 

[Curt Fuller]

Probably a long shot. My VL300 is 18 years old, I've had it for 11 years, so the electronics might be different. Mine has a power switch with a light on the VFD. Twice in 11 years I've had my lathe stop unexpectedly and not start up using the start button on the remote. Both times the problem was dust accumulating in the start button on the remote. If the light comes on on your VFD but you still can't make the lathe come on with the start switch, try blowing out the start switch. Also, I'm curious what the "filter" Marco sent you is. Maybe it's just a different name for something.

 

[Dennis J Gooding]

I assume that the capacitor of concern is the starting capacitor for the motor. Normally, the centrifugal switch disconnects the capacitor when the motor reaches running speed and routes power directly to the drive windings. My guess is that the centrifugal switch is not operating.
This would leave the motor running in the starting mode which would run full cutting power through the starting capacitor. The starting capacitor is not designed to handle more than no-load starting power. Check to see if the centrifugal switch is broken of jammed so that it cannot operate.

 

[Steve Tiedman]

Here's another long shot, probably even longer. Australia's electrical standard is 50hz AC. USA is 60hz AC. What is the chance your system was shipped set up for 50hz power? (Probably a slim chance.) Just grasping at straws here.

What I don't know is if 50hz equipment will even turn on, or not immediately burn up or... if having 60hz power pumped into it. Dunno.

 

[Joe Kaufman]

Can you post a picture of the "filter" with any identifying numbers that corrected the initial problem.
The 30 amp circuit should be fine. My concern was if it was a 20 amp circuit.
The motor should be 3 phase, so there is no start capacitor and centrifugal switch.
The first step in trouble shooting, is there 220-240 volt power at the input terminals of the VFD? You may need help with that.

 

[John Whitley]

If anything I seem to by having the opposite problem. It's a 30A outlet and the vl300 is 20A. I always thought it's fine to plug an undersized piece of equipment into an outlet but I wonder if for some reason it's drawing too much power during the heavy cuts and frying the filter.

Having "too much current capacity", such as a 20A device on a 30A circuit isn't a problem as you describe. And this happens very commonly, as tools that may only require say 10A @ 220V will be hooked up to a 20A circuit simply because that's what's available. Likewise, the recommended circuit size vs. the nominal full load amperage of the machine will often have some headroom to account for startup surges, etc.

The basic analogy is that current is like available flow (think water pipe diameter), while voltage is akin to pressure. Too much water pressure (voltage) to an appliance or fixture can become A Problem but a larger diameter supply pipe (amperage rating) at an acceptable pressure makes no difference.