Norfolk Island Pine vs Monkey puzzle

[Steven Forrest]

Hi,
I recently came into a very large chunk of wood up in Bellingham. It was described as monkey puzzle. After turning it, I'm not sure. Branch knots are all more or less in a plane, there's some of that blue-gray shading - I'm thinking NIP. But I understand that MP can show those same characteristics. Any suggestions on figuring out which it is? Thanks

 

[Mark Hepburn]

Looks like NIP to me.

 

[robo hippy]

Well, haven't turned either. However, both have limbs that come out at the same level, in a circle around the trunk. When I think of Norfolk Island pine, I think yellow, orange, and red. Look up the late great Ron Kent. When I think of Monkey Puzzle/Chilean Pine, I think lighter colors, identical to the picture above. Vernon LeBrand (not sure of the spelling) lived in N Washington state and turned a lot of Monkey Puzzle tree. He would take it out and put one end on the ground, and spalting was done in 6 months.

robo hippy

 

[Steven Forrest]

I gotta say, I'm leaning toward monkey puzzle, especially if it grows up there. The only reason I doubted it was because of the look, but as far as I can tell, MP does basically the same thing as NIP. Robo, your comment about the color is pretty telling. I was originally told it was monkey puzzle, so unless the guy who originally cut it was wrong, I'm going with that. Thanks!

 

[Mark Hepburn]

I stand corrected

 

[Kevin Jesequel]

NIP does not grow in the PNW. These are monkey puzzle from Portland that sat under a tarp for 7 years before finding their way to my lathe:

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

Well, haven't turned either. However, both have limbs that come out at the same level, in a circle around the trunk. When I think of Norfolk Island pine, I think yellow, orange, and red. Look up the late great Ron Kent. When I think of Monkey Puzzle/Chilean Pine, I think lighter colors, identical to the picture above. Vernon LeBrand (not sure of the spelling) lived in N Washington state and turned a lot of Monkey Puzzle tree. He would take it out and put one end on the ground, and spalting was done in 6 months.

robo hippy

Ron never turned Norfolk Island Pine. We hardly have any in Hawaii. We have only 13 NIP trees in Maui, and a million Cook Pines. Ron mostly turned Cook Pine

 

[Phil Winch]

Well, I'm just up the road from Bellingham, WA. (Actually, across the border in White Rock, BC) A couple of years ago, I did a 15" hollow form from a local Whitebark Pine. It looks a lot more like Steve's piece than any NIP or MT I've ever seen, The stain is a fungal infection that has killed a lot of trees in this area.

Phil

 

[Charlie Knighton]

key word is pine. I have not turned monkey puzzle. If you turned pine u will curse it and know it.

 

[robo hippy]

Emiliano, I didn't know that. Can't say I have heard of Cook Pine.

robo hippy

 

[Steven Forrest]

Well, I'm just up the road from Bellingham, WA. (Actually, across the border in White Rock, BC) A couple of years ago, I did a 15" hollow form from a local Whitebark Pine. It looks a lot more like Steve's piece than any NIP or MT I've ever seen, The stain is a fungal infection that has killed a lot of trees in this area.

Phil
View attachment 52767

Phil, thanks for that. My wood cut pretty cleanly and it was identified as MP, so unless/until I have irrefutable evidence to the contrary, I think I'll stick with that, especially now that I know MP is grown in the northwest. I've never even heard of your whitebark pine before. Nice piece, too! Thanks.

 

[Kevin Jesequel]

I can’t say for sure what you have there, except that it isn’t NIP. Fun fact, Monkey Puzzle, aka Chilean Pine seedlings were brought to Portland, OR by Chilean representatives to the 1905 Lewis and Clark Centennial Exposition. There they were given to visitors from the PNW and across the US.

 

[Bill Blasic]

Late to the conversation and have never turned Cook Pine but have turned NIP a number of times but that piece does not look like the NIP I have turned. I think Emiliano has it right.

 

[Robert Satterfield]

All three are in the same genus so have similar characteristics...

 

[Alan Weinberg]

Ron never turned Norfolk Island Pine.

from Ron’s website: Kent came to concentrate on creating bowls in Norfolk Island pine. In answer to a question on his eponymous site, Ron said, “Cook Pine has become very popular with woodturners, especially in Hawaii where it is virtually free. It is quite similar to the Norfolk Pine that I have been using, except a lot more common.”

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

I interviewed a U of H profesor, Ernie Rezents. He wrote a paper and and a newspaper article about Cook Pine and NIP. When both are young it is impossible to tell them apart. When full grown the Cook pine looks like a giant. Even column, hence his scientific name: Araucaria Columnaris. The NIP branches are huge, the knots are way bigger than any Cook. They bloom at different times of they year so they do not cross breed. Ernie got several calls while he was teaching, people thinking they had a hybrid. He wanted badly to discovered a “new” species, but he realized that wasn’t going to happen. He wanted to name the new species after himself, LOL
The tree nurseries here call everything NIP, hence the confusion with most people. And, most people do not care what it is, some of us Woodturners do want to know what we are turning. I know of some really experienced, old, established turners that call Cook Pines NIP.

 

[Richard Patrick]

I’m in south Florida where NIP was commonly used in landscaping back in the 50’s and 60’s so it’s not hard to find large mature trees. This is a piece of NIP I turned a couple of months ago. Sorry for the poor photo quality.

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

I’m in south Florida where NIP was commonly used in landscaping back in the 50’s and 60’s so it’s not hard to find large mature trees. This is a piece of NIP I turned a couple of months ago. Sorry for the poor photo quality.

Judging by the size of the knots that is not NIP. Unless it was a tree under maybe 3 to 5 years old.