I tried finishing a couple of my bowls with Watco but I am not happy with the amount of sheen-or lack thereof. A trusted friend has suggested Odies, and I have purchased some, but I am not sure if I can apply it over the Watco. I know it is intended for bare wood, but does anyone have any experience with using it over Watco?
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Odie's Oil over Watco
- Thread starter Wally Crawford
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- Apr 27, 2004
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I’ve used odies over Waterlox quite a few times.
Sand to 320
1 or 2 coats of Waterlox then 1 coat of odies gives a nice finish with a bit of gloss.
Sand the first Waterlox with 400.
I haven’t buffed and waxed the odies finish.
Worked great
I would think it would be the same over Watco.
Remember the key to a good finish is great surface prep.
Sand to 320
1 or 2 coats of Waterlox then 1 coat of odies gives a nice finish with a bit of gloss.
Sand the first Waterlox with 400.
I haven’t buffed and waxed the odies finish.
Worked great
I would think it would be the same over Watco.
Remember the key to a good finish is great surface prep.
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Which Watco are you using? They sell Tung oil, Danish Oil, Teak oil, etc under the Watco name. Also, Odie's is not known for a glossy sheen. You can increase the sheen of Watco Danish OIl with more coats and/or buffing.
Thanks guys. I used the Watco Danish, three coats and got only a matt finish. Will try Odie's over top and see what happens. It is possible I didn't sand to a fine enough grit (320 I think) and I am not looking for a lot of shine, but a warm glow would be nice. Michael, when buffing, are you using a wax over the Watco?
You need something with resin in it to get a film on the surface to see a sheen.
Thank you Richard. I generally use shellac for a film finish, sometimes followed up with shine juice, but I was looking for more warmth for my oil finish (think more utility use) bowls. Today I tried Odie's over the Watco after wiping the surface with alcohol. I followed their directions and am pleased with the results.
After the Danish oil cures (not very long, I would wait a week or so) I would Beall buff, all three wheels. The sheen will be by glossy, maybe semigloss. Even pure tung or walnut oil (when cured) respond with a very nice sheen after buffing. The buffed sheen will not stand up to repeated washings on utility pieces but lasts indefinitely on display pieces.
I do the same. For me, 3 coats is not enough.
Sand wood to 600-800 by hand. 6-10 coats of "danish" oil, each wiped off after 30 minutes or so and each dried overnight. Not a process for the impatient but it builds up a nice layer. Then dry for a week or more before buffing. Sometimes that's too glossy for me so I cut it back a little with some 0000 or gentle pumice or rottenstone padding.
Wally.....Let us know how it turns out for you.
The Watco Danish Oil hardens and seals wood, so that may be a factor in how well Odie's works.
Note: I have no connection to Odies oil.
For my bowls, I'm using the Beall 3-step buff over the Watco Danish oil. The shine noticeably improves with this buffing method.
=o=
I think I'm the odd-man-out. (Not for even the dozenth time in my life... or so far in 2025!). What draws me to woodworking projects overall is the wood, and the construction of the product (be it turnings, carvings, or flat board work), not the finish. Why I prefer just the penetrating oil, and typically no more than 2, or on rare occasion 3 coats, is in what it does to accentuate the grain details and color tones while leaving the surface alone. And then when I have the piece in my hands, I can feel the texture (smooth, rough, grain, edges, and so on) while I admire the visuals. For me, having that layer of plastic on the surface takes away from the tactile and visual experience. I don't seek to make that human-altered natural material as perfect as possible by encasing its surface in a coat of plastic, no matter how thin that surface may be.
I've applied wipe on poly (gloss) over Watco Danish oil. wait about 4 or 5 days to apply the wipe on poly to make sure the Watco Danish Oil has cured.
Regardless of the type of finish, gloss is a function of surface smoothness. A film type finish can achieve smoothness by filling in larger gaps.
The surface finish of the wood (final sanding grit, fineness of scraping), and the type of grain - open like oak or tight like maple - plays into it as well. Getting the desired gloss level is a matter of balancing bare wood surface finish and finish film thickness, as well as the sheen of the finish type used, and/or buffing waxing (which simply smooths the surface and fills in gaps with wax).
Watco DO is a film finish (varnish) - it will dry hard on a nonporous surface. Adding more coats will increase gloss. There is a simple way to reduce the # of coats - leave the DO on the wood, and keep it wet (add more as solvents flash), then wipe off. You can do this for as long as you want, more than an hour. If it gets too gummy to wipe off, just add a bit more - it will thin things down enough to allow wipe off. Difficult to screw up, really, unless you walk away and allow it to really start setting up.
Years ago, after playing with oils and varnishes and DO’s and whatnot, I found plain old minwax poly, thinned 1:1, and applied as described above, did the same thing as DO but more quickly. I’ve settled on minwax helmsman spar, as it has more oil in it for long term flexibility and has a bit darker color, which provides just a bit of grain enhancement.
The surface finish of the wood (final sanding grit, fineness of scraping), and the type of grain - open like oak or tight like maple - plays into it as well. Getting the desired gloss level is a matter of balancing bare wood surface finish and finish film thickness, as well as the sheen of the finish type used, and/or buffing waxing (which simply smooths the surface and fills in gaps with wax).
Watco DO is a film finish (varnish) - it will dry hard on a nonporous surface. Adding more coats will increase gloss. There is a simple way to reduce the # of coats - leave the DO on the wood, and keep it wet (add more as solvents flash), then wipe off. You can do this for as long as you want, more than an hour. If it gets too gummy to wipe off, just add a bit more - it will thin things down enough to allow wipe off. Difficult to screw up, really, unless you walk away and allow it to really start setting up.
Years ago, after playing with oils and varnishes and DO’s and whatnot, I found plain old minwax poly, thinned 1:1, and applied as described above, did the same thing as DO but more quickly. I’ve settled on minwax helmsman spar, as it has more oil in it for long term flexibility and has a bit darker color, which provides just a bit of grain enhancement.
I agree. If I want a glossy surface (rarely) on a wood with open grain, an undercoat of grain filler or a sanding sealer goes a long way. I don't do this often - I'm with Steve, I want to see and feel the wood. We discovered long ago that black ebony, sanded smooth and with a glossy surface, looked just like plastic. Ack.
For most things I use fewer than the 8-10 coats I mentioned, but the layer buildup from that works when I know someone prefers shiny. Fine sanding dried coats by hand between applications will also smooth the surface, as will wet sanding with the DO with fine sandpaper - the slurry can fill in the grain. There is a balance point between getting the surface too smooth and not getting it glossy enough for some people. (Unless they specifically ask for glossy, they get what I prefer.
)I do that, keep applying until no more will soak in, let sit for 30 minutes, then wipe off. Repeat the next day, etc, if desired - almost none will soak in after the first day. I've read that for the 1st coat some people will even put the piece in a plastic bag and pour enough "danish oil" in to completely submerge and soak until the the wood will take no more. I've never tried that.
Does this also make the figure and chatoyance "pop" as the DO does? The time I tried a test with poly on olivewood and fiddle back maple the effect didn't seem nearly as satisfying so I stick with the DO. (varnish/BLO/solvent)
JKJ
In my opinion it does, but you know about opinions and …
If I remember correctly, DO is a bit darker vs reg poly. One big reason I use mw spar is it is a bit darker bs reg mw poly. I also add in a little dye sometimes to get more grain hilite.
I tried both otc do and mixing my own, same 1/3 formula. OTC DO way too expensive. After tests, I concluded the 1/3 DO held no advantage to the the spar varnish (which has more oil bs reg poly, but I dont know %), and I can get the spar in semi gloss, which is important to me. It knocks the gloss back in any negative grain/defect areas, and my desired finished look. Both OTC DO and the 1/3 mix dried too glossy for my use.
DO does make the grain pop. Often a poly or lacquer will lack that, so DO under poly makes sense. However DO darkens the wood, pretty significantly. That's why I like using shallac. It functions as a sanding sealer so whatever you put on next doesn't take as much, it makes grain pop nicely and, depending on the shellac, it is the lightest penetrating finish I know of.
I have been using osmo polyx lately. Same principal as odies oil. Shellac first reduces the number of coats of osmo necessary for sure. I did an experiment with some unknown very dense blackish exotic from woodcraft and a piece of mesquite. Half shallac full thing osmo. They looked pretty identical. I don't know if that means that there wasn't enough figure in the sample ( basically none ) or I didn't sand it enough ( basically none ) or that esthetically the osmo pops as much as the shellac.
Regardless, it works fine. I can subsequently beal it ( yep its a verb now ) if I want more sheen mm
I have been using osmo polyx lately. Same principal as odies oil. Shellac first reduces the number of coats of osmo necessary for sure. I did an experiment with some unknown very dense blackish exotic from woodcraft and a piece of mesquite. Half shallac full thing osmo. They looked pretty identical. I don't know if that means that there wasn't enough figure in the sample ( basically none ) or I didn't sand it enough ( basically none
) or that esthetically the osmo pops as much as the shellac.Regardless, it works fine. I can subsequently beal it ( yep its a verb now ) if I want more sheen mm