PM3520A VFD programming

[Philip Peak]

I have searched and searched and my brain is fried. Is there anyone on here that can tell me and maybe provide me with the parameters and the procedure for programming and new out of box original VFD for a PM 3520A lathe? I am attaching pics of the VFD so there is no confusion as to which VFD it is. Any help would be appreciated, I really would like to get my lathe up and going again.

 

[Earl McLain]

Can’t help with parameters, but have to ask…Am I reading correctly that the VFD is 3 phase input? If so, can you supply 3 phase to it?
Earl

 

[Philip Peak]

It is a 3 phase output but a 220V single phase input. The VFD converts to 3 phase to control motor.

 

[Brian Gustin]

Mustard Monster website may be of help: https://mustardmonster.colvintools.com/Documents/3520A VFD replacement.pdf or if not that, then somewhere around the site? https://mustardmonster.colvintools.com/

 

[Dean Center]

I can give you the values for the parameters, but not tell you which parameter number goes with which item. That has to come from the manual. The original Powermatic VFDs were locked. If yours is, too, you'll have to ask someone else how to unlock.

 

[Philip Peak]

I can give you the values for the parameters, but not tell you which parameter number goes with which item. That has to come from the manual. The original Powermatic VFDs were locked. If yours is, too, you'll have to ask someone else how to unlock.

Please feel free to send me what you have, I have a manual that came with the VFD maybe I can make heads or tails out of it.

 

[Earl McLain]

It is a 3 phase output but a 220V single phase input. The VFD converts to 3 phase to control motor.

Got it. The label in pic 2 looked like “Inpu 3ph” but I just looked at the manual and it shows “21” to be single phase. Good luck on the install.

 

[Dean Center]

Please feel free to send me what you have, I have a manual that came with the VFD maybe I can make heads or tails out of it.

It will be Tuesday before I get my notes, as I've been programming a new VFD at our high school. I'll send the parameters along then.

 

[Philip Peak]

It will be Tuesday before I get my notes, as I've been programming a new VFD at our high school. I'll send the parameters along then.

Thanks much. Update: I got the new VFD installed and when I turned it on and hit the run button on the VFD itself, the lathe came on and spun up for the first time in over a year. Now just get it set up to run from the front and control the speed.

 

[Dean Center]

Philip,

Sounds really good!

If you check in your VFD manual, there is a parameter that sets where the VFD should expect it's instructions. The default is usually the VFD panel. There may be 2-3 other options. If you're confident you've got things set up correctly (for example, did you try the up and down arrows to change the speed (or Hz) while it was running from the VFD panel?), then you want to change that value to "analog" or "other" or something like that. But not the option for a keyboard plugged into the VFD port.

 

[Philip Peak]

Dean Center, it took me a few but I think the one called control method might be the correct parameter that needs changing but which choice? Any idea?

 

[Dean Center]

I don't know--they're using abbreviations with which I'm not familiar.

I've got a pdf of a Delta manual, which is probably not exactly what you have, but they might use a similar organization. In this manual, you would set the source of instructions at parameter 2.00 and 2.01.

Group 2 Operation Method Parameters
Pr. Explanation Settings Factory
Setting NOTE

2-00 Source of Master Frequency
Command
d0: Master Frequency input
determined by digital keypad.
(record the frequency of power
loss and it can do analog
overlap plus)
d1: Master Frequency determined
by analog signal DC 0V-10V
(external terminal AVI). (won’t
record the frequency of power
loss and it can’t do analog
overlap plus)
d2: Master Frequency determined
by analog signal DC 4mA -
20mA (external terminal AVI).
(won’t record the frequency of
power loss and it can’t do
analog overlap plus)
d0
Chapter 5 Parameters|VFD-S Series
5-4 Revision August 2008, SE09, SW V2.61
Pr. Explanation Settings Factory
Setting NOTE
2-00 Source of Master Frequency
Command
d3: Master Frequency determined
by Potentiometer on the digital
keypad. (won’t record the
frequency of power loss and it
can do analog overlap plus)
d4: Master Frequency operated by
RS-485 serial communication
interface and record frequency
of power loss. (record the
frequency of power loss and it
can do analog overlap plus)
d5: Master Frequency operated by
RS-485 serial communication
interface and won’t record
frequency before power loss.
(won’t record the frequency of
power loss and it can do analog
overlap plus)
d0

2-01 Source of Operation
Command
d0: Digital Keypad
d1: External terminals. Keypad
STOP/RESET enabled.
d2: External terminals. Keypad
STOP/RESET disabled.
d3: RS-485 serial communication
(RJ-11) .Keypad STOP/RESET
enabled.
d4: RS-485 serial communication
(RJ-11). Keypad STOP/RESET
disabled.

 

[Dean Center]

Note: This assumes the parameter scheme on your Delta is the same as the older model. If it's different, you should still be able to find the corresponding parameter in your manual.

Reading this through a little more carefully, it's clear that these are the parameters you need to set in order to operate from the lathe controls. First, make sure you have things wired correctly--one of the wires from the potentiometer/speed dial or possibly the on-off button needs to be connected to AV1 on the VFD. (On the Powermatic, there is a common wire from these on the original Delta VFD)

Then set parameter 2.01 to d2. This should allow you to start-stop from the lathe. Assuming that goes well, then set parameter 2.00 to either d1 (most likely) or d2 ( less likely, both might work). This will allow you to adjust speed from the potentiometer/speed control button. Voila'.

 

[Darryl Fective]

Dean Center, it took me a few but I think the one called control method might be the correct parameter that needs changing but which choice? Any idea?

That's for regulation of the motor, not inputs.

I'm pretty sure you just want variable frequency (00) setting. VF + PG is a feedback loop with pulse generator to sense speed. Our pulse generators are only there to display the speed of the spindle and has nothing to do with the motor.

I had somebody message me last night about theirs and I need to dig out my notes. I thought I had it on a backup drive, but I didn't find it, so I need to dig out my hard copy.

*** My lathe is a 4224, but Powermatic sent it to me with a 2hp motor and VFD, so it's probably the exact same as the 3520 VFD.

 

[Darryl Fective]

I dug out my VFD parameters from my basement file cabinet. I scanned the pages and saved it as a PDF. Hope that helps. It has factory settings, then what I either read or changed noted in the column next to it.

You can email me at hammergrips@gmail.com if I can help further. It sucks to have a lathe not working.

 

[Philip Peak]

Darryl Fective, This is the exact same pages that came with my VFD. I'm sure your settings will be very helpful. Thanks you and thanks to all of you who tried to help, It is greatly appreciated. It'll be really good to have my Mustard Monster back up and running.

 

[Dean Center]

I dug it out of my VFD parameters from my basement file cabinet. I scanned the pages and saved it as a PDF. Hope that helps. It has factory settings, then what I either read or changed noted in the column next to it.

You can email me at hammergrips@gmail.com if I can help further. It sucks to have a lathe not working.

It's about damn time an engineer showed up. My brain was beginning to hurt.

 

[Darryl Fective]

It's about damn time an engineer showed up. My brain was beginning to hurt.

I ain't no engineer. (unless running my HO train as a kid counts )

I barely graduated high school. It all just seemed boring and I had places to go and friends to hang with.

 

[John Hebdon]

I think Earl is right. You have a 3ph input and 3ph output VFD there. I have spent the last four weeks learning about VFD's and finally got my Jet JWL-1642EVS up and running Friday night. I just posted a long thread about it earlier. I am not sure you can change the parameters on the VFD from 3ph input to 1ph input.

The correct VFD tag should read something like this...

This is the one I just got working on my lathe. Note the 1PH in and the 3PH out. I hope this helps and doesn't cause even more confusion.

 

[Bill Boehme]

Operating a three-phase Delta inverter on single-phase power can be done on some models, but as Dean mentioned, there seems to be a contradiction between the model number indicating single-phase and the nameplate stating three-phase input power. Typically, when single-phase input is allowed on a three-phase inverter, it is necessary to derate the output power. I don't recall how much ... maybe 50%.

And, to add more confusion, I saw this page in the user manual:

 

[Philip Peak]

Quick update here: I double check my old VFD which is the exact same model Number as new one. The label on the old one for the input is "1PH 15.2 A/3PH 9.4A

 

[Philip Peak]

Is there ANYONE on this site who is still using a PM 3520A with the original VFD?

 

[Dean Center]

Yep.

 

[Philip Peak]

Yep.

Any chance you would have the parameters written down somewhere?

 

[Dean Center]

I do not have the parameters for the original Delta S VFD. I have a table of parameters purportedly for the VFD for a 3520B from 2010, that I got somewhere. No mention on the table as to what VFD it refers.

I do have a table I prepared showing the values needed for setting parameters on a replacement VFD for a 3520A. The parameter numbers are specific to the brand of VFD, so you have to look in the manual to find that part out. The table is attached. Be aware that you also have to wire the VFD correctly.

Disclaimer: This is a workable set of parameters as far as I know and has been used successfully on at least 2 3520s. I make no guarantees. You are on your own.

 

[Darryl Fective]

Operating a three-phase Delta inverter on single-phase power can be done on some models, but as Dean mentioned, there seems to be a contradiction between the model number indicating single-phase and the nameplate stating three-phase input power. Typically, when single-phase input is allowed on a three-phase inverter, it is necessary to derate the output power. I don't recall how much ... maybe 50%.

And, to add more confusion, I saw this page in the user manual:

View attachment 50356

I think the one he has is an older discontinued model that can accept either single or 3 phase input.

I'd call Delta: 800-985-6929
Open Mon-Fri 7:00 AM - 7:00 PM CST

 

[Philip Peak]

I think the one he has is an older discontinued model that can accept either single or 3 phase input.

I'd call Delta: 800-985-6929
Open Mon-Fri 7:00 AM - 7:00 PM CST

What he said.

 

[Darryl Fective]

What he said.

But still no success with it?
You've got me curious now. I have to plow out a list of folks, but also my shop. If I remember, I'll pull my old one off the shelf and see what model was. my original VFD was.

 

[Philip Peak]

But still no success with it?
You've got me curious now. I have to plow out a list of folks, but also my shop. If I remember, I'll pull my old one off the shelf and see what model was. my original VFD was.

Unfortunately, no.

 

[Dean Center]

Just in case you haven't seen it, there is an excellent older thread with pretty good "replace your VFD" instructions here: https://www.aawforum.org/community/threads/powermatic-3520b-vfd-replacement.14784/

It also has a helpful note on a VFD replacement for a Jet 1642.

 

[Darryl Fective]

Unfortunately, no.

Have you checked continuity between the different motor connections? I would also check that your switches are also making contact. Both on my 4224 would get dust inside and I would have a no-run situation until I pulled them apart and cleaned them out. They're garbage, poorly designed, but easily replaced with a 99 cent light switch. You switch to touchpad control and see if it runs that way.

On one call (there were many) with Powermatic, they said to also check the actual wires, both to your plug and to the motor. He said they had a bad supply for a spell and it caused problems for a few people. Mine seemed OK, but I replaced them anyway, I was desperate to get it working dependably.

 

[Philip Peak]

UPDATE: Hey all, Thanks for all your help, the lathe is now working. I recently got an actual response from Powermatic and they gave me the following parameters for the original VFD for my lathe. Posting here incase someone else might need them.

 

[Mark Jundanian]

UPDATE: Hey all, Thanks for all your help, the lathe is now working. I recently got an actual response from Powermatic and they gave me the following parameters for the original VFD for my lathe. Posting here incase someone else might need them.

The attachment won't open.

 

[Philip Peak]

See if this works

 

[Darryl Fective]

Sorry I wasn't able to help, but I'm glad it's working again.

 

[Mike Novak]

I’m seeing a lot of threads about replacing VFDs. I’m starting to worry about the used PM3520 I just purchased. Are these really old VFDs going bad, or are they just unreliable?

I know that about 20 years ago there was a global quality issue with capacitors that caused lots of electronics to fail prematurely. Or did they use cheap VFDs?

 

[Brian Gustin]

I’m seeing a lot of threads about replacing VFDs. I’m starting to worry about the used PM3520 I just purchased. Are these really old VFDs going bad, or are they just unreliable?

I know that about 20 years ago there was a global quality issue with capacitors that caused lots of electronics to fail prematurely. Or did they use cheap VFDs?

May be just the sheer number of units out there - As a percentage, the posts you see about vfd replacement are a rather small percentage, IMHO. The other thing I think is, I would consider treating a VFD much like a computer (same difference, really) If you left a computer plugged in out in your shop (dirty, dusty, temperature & humidity variations, vibrations from use, etc, etc) It would probably quickly suffer the same fate as many of these VFD's - Advice I have seen from others is the suggestion of when you are done with the machine for the day, unplug the whole thing from the outlet (just switching off power supply won't protect against surges, as there's still the ground and in case of 120v machines, the neutral line) A surge suppressor (much like you might use for a computer) might be of help - But good luck finding a good quality surge suppressor in the appropriate amperage range. I'd been considering installing a whole-house surge suppressor at the breaker panel at my place (and I just might) , which would protect everything in the place (TV, Microwave, Security systems, other electronics, etc) but the easiest protection is typically just unplug the sucker when you aren't using it.

 

[Don Wattenhofer]

I’m seeing a lot of threads about replacing VFDs. I’m starting to worry about the used PM3520 I just purchased. Are these really old VFDs going bad, or are they just unreliable?

I know that about 20 years ago there was a global quality issue with capacitors that caused lots of electronics to fail prematurely. Or did they use cheap VFDs?

Of all the threads about replacing VFDs on wood lathes I can't recall one that was not a Delta brand. I personally do not own a lathe with a Delta VFD. The one lathe that I purchased with electronic variable speed had a servo motor and the controller on that one burned out so instead of replacing the controller I was able to buy a 2HP 3 phase induction motor and a VFD (not a Delta brand) for less money then the replacement servo controller.
When I was still working for a living I started using VFDs and 3 phase induction motors in place of DC motors or Mechanical variable pitch belt drives. By the mid 1990's VFDs were being switched to PWM (pulse width modulation) and the prices were dropping. In my current shop I have six PWM VFD' most of which are powered up continually. The oldest unit I have is a Cutler Hammer brand on my Bridgeport milling machine installed about 1997 and still going strong. The other VFDs are Teco and Automation Direct and none of those have shown any signs of failing.
The wood lathe is a very simple application for a VFD and most if not all can be set to whatever parameters necessary to run any lathe and after reading about all of the problems PM has had I sure wouldn't get a replacement VFD from them.

 

[Gerald Lawrence]

I’m seeing a lot of threads about replacing VFDs. I’m starting to worry about the used PM3520 I just purchased. Are these really old VFDs going bad, or are they just unreliable?

I know that about 20 years ago there was a global quality issue with capacitors that caused lots of electronics to fail prematurely. Or did they use cheap VFDs?

A friend in our club had a 3520A for about 20 years and sold to another club member last year. Longevity I do not believe to be a significant problem. True we see several questions on replacing VFD and have no idea how many do not post. I think there must be 100 of the 3520 with no problem vs the one that does.

 

[Bill Blasic]

My 3520b entered my shop in October of 2005 and has run perfectly since then. It has always been unplugged at the end of the day.