Powermatic 3520c vs JET JWL-1640EVS

[Thomas Lynch]

Hi everyone,

I'm currently trying to decide between the Powermatic 3520c and JET JWL-1640EVS and would love to read opinions from people that have actually used both por some period of time. The reason I'm comparing these two lathes is because I live in Argentina, where unfortunately we have no access to any of the well known brands, but for the first time, one company is importing 6 units of these two lathes.

I know the 3520c is an overall better lathe than the 1640, but the problem is they are being sold for $6000 and $3800, which is an insane price for our fragile economy. These opportunities are rare, though, and I wouldn't like to let it pass and later regret it.

Things I particularly like about the Powermatic are:

The 2 hp motor vs the 1,5 hp of the 1640.
The magnetic control box, which I consider not only to be convenient but also a safety feature.
The stability provided by it's weight.
The big spindle hand wheel.
The spindle lock which stays locked without requiring the button to be held.
The wedge bushing lock mechanism for the tool rest (from some pictures, it seems like the 1640 might have the same mechanism).
I don't think I really need the extra swing, but it's a plus which is nice to have.

If it helps at all, my current lathe is the Gamma G685, a Chinese lathe which I just discovered is identical to the CRAFTSMAN 351.217150 lathe from this post.
Sadly, this is one of the best options offered in Argentina, but at least it's got a 2 hp motor, 15" swing and swivel headstock.
It's got a reeves drive that drives me crazy cause it rusts and seizes pretty often, requiring a full teardown to clean up and make it run smoot again. The belts seem to wear down pretty quickly as well.
Many components were very poorly made. Luckily I'm an industrial designer and had access to a CNC router at my previous job, so redesigned lots of parts.

I'm trying to understand if the benefits of the 3520c justify the extra $2200. I read people say wonderful things about the 1640, and some even prefer it over the 3520c, but I do feel a bit weird spending $3800 to lose 0,5 hp compared to my current setup.

Since getting good tools is so hard in Argentina, I'll probably keep this lathe for a VERY long time, if not for ever, and the Powermatic seems like a lathe I could keep forever.
Not sure about the 1640, hence why I'm asking for opinions of people who have actually used both. It would be a real shame spending $3800 and having to upgrade again in the future.

Any information will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Thomas

 

[Dave Landers]

I haven't had those exact lathes, but have had the predecessors of each of them. I currently have a Jet 1642-EVS (1.5hp) and, until just recently, had a PM 3520b. Had both sitting next to each other in my shop for about 8 years. Our club has a 3520c and I've used it. Hopefully my experience, while not exactly what you were looking for, will be helpful.

Based on my experience owning both a PM and a Jet: While the Jet is a good machine, I'd personally say get the PM if you can afford it. But either would be a big upgrade over the Gamma/Craftsman.


I think here you have hit the main points

The 2 hp motor vs the 1,5 hp of the 1640.

yes

The magnetic control box, which I consider not only to be convenient but also a safety feature.

Absolutely - I retro-fitted my 3520b with a magnetic box and currently have a Robust with one - would not want to be without it, especially if you turn things like roughing bowls - reaching around a spinning chunk of log to hit the switch is just inviting an injury.

The stability provided by its weight.

The difference in weight and stability is very noticeable when I had both of these machines in my shop side-by-side. Even things like moving the banjo - the Jet just feels lightweight in comparison.

The spindle lock which stays locked without requiring the button to be held.

Is nice. I made a few modifications to both my machines to make the button stay pressed.

The wedge bushing lock mechanism for the tool rest (from some pictures, it seems like the 1640 might have the same mechanism).

Yes. The 3520b and 1642 that I have/had both had "set-screw" style locking. The wedge system is so much better.

I don't think I really need the extra swing, but it's a plus which is nice to have.

Yes.

Also, the fit and finish of the PM is just that much better. Just somehow feels more pleasurable to use.

I'll probably keep this lathe for a VERY long time, if not for ever, and the Powermatic seems like a lathe I could keep forever.

I think you are right about that.

 

[Brian Gustin]

Just one little thing just so you're aware of it - the company is JPW (Jet-Powermatic-Wilton) so essentially a Jet is the "low budget" version of the Powermatic - I havent used a powermatic, but have been very happy with my JWL-1640EVS and I suspect the difference between the 1640EVS and the 3520C is - The 3520 C has a bigger swing over bed , and thus, I'd imagine it is going to have a more powerful motor.. I'm sure the extra "bells and whistles" on the 3520C are well worth the while.. On the other hand I wouldn't have bought the 3520C even if I had the budget because I wanted the distance between spindles offered by the Jet (Though I could have gotten a bed extension for the 3520 for more money) But as I was on a severely limited budget the Jet gave me pretty much everything I considered "must have" in a lathe for the price point. However, if I had had the budget for a 3520C (plus bed extension) I would very likely have gotten that one instead.... So if you have the budget for the 3520 , I'd say get that one - as far as longevity, I think either the Powermatic or the Jet could have the potential to be your "forever" lathe - much of the "guts" as far as construction of the machines are pretty much the same. (I love the wedge type tool rest lock, which was one of my must-haves)

 

[Sam Force]

I have a 3520B, our club has the Jet 1640. In my opinion there is no comparison between the 2. Both will spin wood but the PM is on another level compared to the Jet. Compare the weight, banjo, bed etc. as others have said but once cry once

 

[John K Jordan]

@Thomas Lynch

Sorry, I can't comment on those exact models but have long experience with earlier versions of both. Great lathes.

I use a PM3520b and have had one or two Jet 1642 lathes (both 1.5hp versions, 110v) in my shop for years. (Multiple lathes are great when students come!)


The short version: my opinion is both lathes are great and I strongly suspect newer models of the same lathe would also be great. But as usual, much depends on how you turn, the turner's skill level, and intentions for the future.

The longer version:

I can say that while I wouldn't consider trading the 3520b (for me it's a great "forever" lathe), for the my use the Jet lathes were wonderful. Much, as usual, depends on how you turn and what you want to turn in the future.

I never ran into anything I couldn't turn on the Jets - for example, I turned a bowl from a solid walnut blank just under 16"x8" and it never even stuttered. (the key is the right tools, sharp-sharp tools, and finesse rather than force.) My opinion is the lower power was sufficient - never came close to stalling. I recently gave that lathe to a friend who a few days lather presented me with a similar sized maple bowl - the power was also not a problem for him. The bed length is great and controls are excellent. (BTW, a clever person can rig a Jet to hold the spindle locked.) I more recently gave the other 1642 to an education program for kids. The point is there are probably plenty of used 1642s out there that could be bought for relatively little money.

The PM3520b is a stout and much heavier lathe. I bought mine used and it came with a 16" bed extension and a bunch of extras (vacuum pump, chucks, tools, wood, more). Given the value of those extras, the lathe itself probably cost a little over $2000. It also came with a magnetic remote switch I can position anywhere. The 3532b is a joy to use - I think it stands up favorably to other far more expensive lathes I've used at demos and in other shops. With the bed extension you can easily set it up to turn outboard up to 38" - not something that interests me but might others. The PM is far heaver than the Jet adding stability if you want to turn severely out-of-balance blanks. Although weight can be added to the Jet, some types of use may mechanically stress components.

The point is I wonder if you could find a great used lathe in excellent condition. Shipping to your area would be the hard part. But the savings compared to a new lathe might easily pay for the shipping and then some. (If purchasing without seeing or trying it out, I'd enlist someone to inspect it.)

I also know several creative and prolific woodturners who have the even older PM320a models and are quite happy with them.

But in your case with a rare import opportunity without other good options, I'd probably look in the couch cushions for change and walk the neighbor's dogs and buy the PM!

JKJ

 

[Wyatt Holm]

I have used both. They are made by the same company, so there are many things that are similar. You need to decide what it is you want to turn. You may be only turning spindles and kit items at the moment, in that case the Jet should do fine. However, if you want to do larger work, say a 16" bowl and you want to try bowl coring then you will be much happier with the Powermatic. It's kind of like buying a pickup truck. Do you need an F350 that can tow a massive RV, or will an F150 handle your motorboat?

 

[Richard Coers]

Buy cheap buy twice. I know the Jet isn’t cheap but I think you understand the saying. If you can afford it, buy the better lathe. Nothing worse than buyer’s remorse.

What do you call it when you have a Oneway 2436, a Powermatic 3520B, and a Jet 1642 EVS? LOL I bought the Oneway in 1998, the Powermatic was an inheritance from a great friend, and I bought the Jet for cheap as a backup for a very early Delta 46-460 when everybody was frying the control board and there were zero parts from Delta.
I too would recommend the Powermatic, unless you will never turn large items.

 

[Bill Blasic]

I have both and they have been in my shop for a long time. To be truthful between the two just counting those two lathes the 3520b is used 98% of the time the Jet 2%. Not that the Jet is bad as it is not I'm just more comfortable with the 3520b. If one had to go it would be the Jet. The jet costs half of what the Powermatic costs but in no way is it half the lathe. It's probably a good thing I didn't know what I know now, do you know how hard it is to sell a 20" bowl or even a 16" bowl. Do I actually need 20" capacity? No but lets face it it's my baby 2 ( My Nova DVR is baby1). Lastly both the Jet and Powermatic have functioned perfectly all these years so I would recommend either.

 

[Lou Jacobs]

I turned a bowl from a solid walnut blank just under 16"x8" and it never even stuttered. (the key is the right tools, sharp-sharp tools, and finesse rather than force.) My opinion is the lower power was sufficient - never came close to stalling.

I agree with everything you’ve said John, with the exception of stalling the lathe. I have the 3520C and when coring bowls with my McNaughton setup, I have occasionally stalled it out. In that mode I’d say the extra 1/2 hp would make a big difference. (Although I’m sure that there are some who might say this just means I’m being too aggressive when coring.). My lathe just went out of warranty after five years, and I still smile whenever I use it.

 

[Mike Novak]

Thomas,

I will echo what others have already said. I have a 3520c, and have used a 1649evs. Either is likely to be a BIG improvement over the Gamma, but the 3520c is in a different class than the 1649evs. Maybe as much an improvement over the Jet as the Jet is over the Gamma? It really comes down to your budget, and how much of it you want to spend on your hobby. You won’t go wrong with either one.

Compared to the Jet, The PM makes more noise (from the motor fan) at high speeds, and the banjo is much heavier, so it doesn’t slide as easily. The tail stock is much heavier to remove, but it slides nice. On the plus side, in addition to what you listed:
Everything locks down tighter and easier. Plus the locking handles are really comfortable.
The tail stock is stiffer, which is really noticeable when extended or when drilling holes.
It’s heavier, so more stable, especially with unbalanced work.
The spindle lock mechanism is more robust.

At the prices you mentioned, I wonder if you could get one shipped to you from a foreign supplier for less money? Might open up other options. The Oneway 1640 is us $4800.

 

[robo hippy]

Well, they are both fine lathes, and the main question for you would be do you have 220 volt available? Well, #2 would be how big do you want to trun? I have turned on a Jet with 110 volt, and it didn't have the power that the 3520 has, which I consider necessary if you plan on coring. I do like the sliding headstocks as well since you get a short bed lathe for turning bowls and a long bed lathe for turning spindles. I am still shocked to see people turning bowls on sliding headstocl lathes with the headstock at the headstock end rather than down at the other end. My first "real" lathe was a 3520A. On the B model, they went with minimum speed of 50 rpm for it turning off which I did not like since I couldn't sand my warped bowls out at that speed. They also dropped the minimum speed on low range to 1200 or so, can't remember, which is too slow for me with smaller bowls, and you can't core on high speed range, at least with the McNaughton.

robo hippy

 

[John K Jordan]

I agree with everything you’ve said John, with the exception of stalling the lathe. I have the 3520C and when coring bowls with my McNaughton setup, I have occasionally stalled it out. In that mode I’d say the extra 1/2 hp would make a big difference. (Although I’m sure that there are some who might say this just means I’m being too aggressive when coring.). View attachment 82470My lathe just went out of warranty after five years, and I still smile whenever I use it.

That's why I wrote "Much, as usual, depends on how you turn and what you want to turn in the future.". Coring, in particular, can be a problem with almost any lathe - more power helps. (Some of the newer cutters are supposed to help but I don't have experience with them)

But coring sure can be hard on the lathe, especially if used aggressively or without clearing chips often.
I had a McNaughton but never stalled the 3520b or even the Jet 1642. (maybe I was too timid). But not everyone has a room for a big bowl I usually make small bowls (from dry wood.) Some of the shapes I like might be difficult to make from cores so I like to use dry solid blanks (although it looks like you might make extra thick cores).


(The largest bowl in my house is at the bot of the 3rd picture, about 12" dia. A friend made it for me soon after I gave him a one of my Jet1642 lathes)

JKJ

 

[Thomas Lynch]

Absolutely - I retro-fitted my 3520b with a magnetic box and currently have a Robust with one - would not want to be without it, especially if you turn things like roughing bowls - reaching around a spinning chunk of log to hit the switch is just inviting an injury.

Is nice. I made a few modifications to both my machines to make the button stay pressed.

You are right, Dave. I was also thinking I could probably do some modifications like this quite easily, which actually reduces the number of advantages the the PM has over the Jet. I guess it's a matter of deciding if the remaining differences outweigh the price increase.

Just one little thing just so you're aware of it - the company is JPW (Jet-Powermatic-Wilton) so essentially a Jet is the "low budget" version of the Powermatic

Thanks for mentioning this. I've read this in a couple different threads (I think some of the comments mentioning it might have actually been yours). Most probably also the reason this company is bringing models of those two brands and not others.
Do you know if the bearings, belts, spindle and stuff like that are the exact same ones on both lathes?

However, if you want to do larger work, say a 16" bowl and you want to try bowl coring then you will be much happier with the Powermatic.

I too would recommend the Powermatic, unless you will never turn large items.

It's probably a good thing I didn't know what I know now, do you know how hard it is to sell a 20" bowl or even a 16" bowl.

I most definitely don't need the extra swing right now. I've mainly turned bowls under 12" till now and Ushuaia is a touristy area, so as Bill mentioned, smaller bowls also sell better. Of course it's really hard to tell where things will go. Currently there are no coring systems available in Argentina, but hopefully that will change one day and it would be a shame making such a large investment (3.8k for the Jet) and later having to upgrade again.
I think the Jet would probably be okay for almost everything that I do, but something just feels wrong about spending that much money to lose 25% of the power I've got today.

The point is I wonder if you could find a great used lathe in excellent condition. Shipping to your area would be the hard part. But the savings compared to a new lathe might easily pay for the shipping and then some. (If purchasing without seeing or trying it out, I'd enlist someone to inspect it.)

At the prices you mentioned, I wonder if you could get one shipped to you from a foreign supplier for less money? Might open up other options. The Oneway 1640 is us $4800.

The thing with used lathes from the US is we use single phase 220 V, 50 hz in Argentina, so not sure how that would work with lathes meant for the 220 V, 60 hz you guys use. Any idea on that?
I must also consider wouldn't have any chance to see the lathe beforehand, and if the person inspecting it missed any issue, I'd have no support to fix it down here. The risk scares me a little, to be honest. I think the saving in price should be very significant to justify the risk. I'm going to find out what the cost of importing from the US would be.

I'm actually in the process of finding out how much it would cost to import a VL240 straight from Australia (without the stand mount). Those things sell for about U$D 3700 over there. Not sure what the cost will be after shipping, insurance and import taxes.
I'm a little skeptical about the swivel head. I know Vicmarc is pretty much top of the line, but it just makes me wonder, if that swivel head is so good, why don't any of their other lathes have it?
I understand the VL300 is meant to be their sturdiest lathe of line, designed to withstand the largest and most unbalanced pieces. But what of the smaller models like the VL150 or VL200? It would make even more sense for them to feature a swivel head, since it could help accommodate larger pieces in a smaller swing lathe.

Has anyone used a VL240, and how do you think it does it compare to the 3520c?

As for the Oneway 1640, I think that after shipping, insurance and import taxes, a 4800 lathe would probably end up costing about the same as the 3520c sold here.

Well, they are both fine lathes, and the main question for you would be do you have 220 volt available? Well, #2 would be how big do you want to trun? I have turned on a Jet with 110 volt, and it didn't have the power that the 3520 has, which I consider necessary if you plan on coring.

Yes, we use single phase 220 V, 50 hz in Argentina, or 3 phase 380 V.
I've seen you mentioning this in several threads and I wonder, is it that 110 V makes a difference compared to 220 V or is it just that motors that run on 110 V have less power, like the 1,5 hp on the Jet compared to the 2 hp on the PM?
I asked my brother, who is a mechanical engineer, and he said that as far as he knows, it shouldn't make a difference. 1 hp is 1 hp, regardless of what voltage it's fed.
We don't use 110 V here, so I'm wondering if there is something I'm missing.

I totally agree with you on the maximum speed on the lowest gear being a little low. Would be nice having just a few more rpm, although this would mean losing a little low end torque. Something a 3 gear pully would solve.


Thanks everyone for your replies,
Thomas

 

[John K Jordan]

The thing with used lathes from the US is we use single phase 220 V, 50 hz in Argentina, so not sure how that would work with lathes meant for the 220 V, 60 hz you guys use. Any idea on that?

The power we use is physically "split phase" which gives 110v from ground/common to either of the two hot legs, or 220v between the two legs. The two legs are 180-deg apart in phase so they are still single phase. The big transformer on our property is fed by a single conductor, I was told the single secondary winding is tapped in the middle to supply the lower voltage. (Note: for the lower voltage you may hear various terminology, for example 110 or 115 or 120v, but in common practical usage all three mean same thing. The measured voltage can vary within a defined tolerance.)

is it that 110 V makes a difference compared to 220 V or is it just that motors that run on 110 V have less power

I understand, in general, the motor output power is a function of the amperage the motor is designed to use and actually uses. For example, two "simple" AC induction electrical motors can be designed to produce the same horsepower from different voltages. If one is wired for 220v and the other for 110v, the one running on 110v will pull twice the amperage through the wires than the 220v motor. The wire gauge increase needed to control the voltage drop from the doubled amperange can be significant, even critical. Wires that are are too small and/or tool long can create serious cascading problems: motor demands more amperage, wire resistance increases due to heat in the wires which lowers the voltage, the motor demands even more amperage, etc. A small voltage drop can reduce the output of the motor; at worse case operating with a large voltage drop can overheat and destroy the motor.

However, things are less clear with our variable speed lathes controlled by VFDs which convert the single-phase input power to drive 3-phase motors to provide variable speed, reverse, etc.

I'd contact the lathe manufacturer and ask about the 60 vs 50 hz. I have experience only with 60hz. I suspect the VFD will work with or can be programmed for either 60 or 50hz, but again, best ask PM/Jet or whoever makes the lathe you are considering. The last time I checked, I was still not an electrical engineer (or even an electrician, except in Mexico.)

JKJ

 

[Bill Blasic]

After rereading all the comments (yours and ours) I would suggest you buy the best you can afford and there is no doubt that you will be the happiest with the Powermatic. Even if you bought and loved the Jet every time you started it that thought would creep into your mind, should I have gotten the Powermatic.

 

[Lou Jacobs]

every time you started it that thought would creep into your mind, should I have gotten the Powermatic.

Sort of like when I opt for the tofu salad and think “I really wish I got the cheeseburger.” (Well, maybe just a bit different.)