Question about sealing logs

[Brian Kopp]

Last year I picked up some Tree Saver Green Wood Sealer from Wood Turners Catalog for sealing logs as a more affordable solution compared to some others.

I sat it on a shelf and just pulled it out this week.

When I read the label, it said “specially formulated PVA based material that protects unseasoned bowls against cracking while reducing drying time by up to 50% compared to popular wax base green wood sealers.”

I hadn’t realized it when I ordered it, but there’s no mention of using it on logs or bowl blanks.

But it is PVA based. Up till now I was just using diluted Titebond II, since I had it on hand, which worded ok but maybe not as well I’ve read AnchorSeal does. This stuff is thicker than Titebond but thinner than paste.

Has anyone used it? Has anyone used it for sealing logs or bowl blanks?

The reason I ask is a local college admissions director just gave me a huge log from an old walnut tree that was cut down on their campus and asked if I could make several items from it, including several of these cigar ashtrays I designed:

The tree had sentimental value for college staff as it had been there since the college’s founding. The log was a 26” wide crotch at its widest. I just had it milled into several pieces I could handle, on a friend’s sawmill. And I used this Tree Saver Green Wood Sealer to seal the ends and don’t want to screw it up. (I’m a nobody, just an amateur hobbyist wood turner, using a lathe for a year and a half. The admissions director heard about me from a friend of a friend.)

 

[Dean Center]

Yes it can be used on cut log ends and bowl blanks. Get it on as soon as possible. With fruitwood, somewhere between the "Tim..." and the "....ber".

 

[Bob Vaughan]

That is some excellent looking walnut.
Rough turn them and seal them right now. Sealing only the end grain on those chunks now will have a very low probability of success. Been there.

example of rough bowl sealing below. Marking a green weight will be helpful later on.

 

[Brian Kopp]

That is some excellent looking walnut.
Rough turn them and seal them right now. Sealing only the end grain on those chunks now will have a very low probability of success. Been there.

example of rough bowl sealing below. Marking a green weight will be helpful later on.

View attachment 61107

Thanks for the input.

One of the problems is that when I make these ashtrays, I laminate a light colored wood on top of a 3” thick piece of walnut, route the cigar rests on my router table, then turn the ashtray.

In the one above I used poplar but whatever I use will be kiln dried.

Can a 6” square 3” thick piece of walnut be dried in silica gel beads prior to gluing the lighter color wood on top, routing the cigar rests then turning the whole thing?

I’m not sure how to deal with this moisture discrepancy, and they’re hoping to get something back from me relatively soon. Like before several years drying time lol!

 

[Brian Kopp]

Yes it can be used on cut log ends and bowl blanks. Get it on as soon as possible. With fruitwood, somewhere between the "Tim..." and the "....ber".

Thanks. I brought home some freshly cut apple logs last week and will be sealing them tomorrow. Hopefully I didn’t wait too long already.

 

[Richard Coers]

Sealer like that will NOT prevent a log of checking on the ends. Well, nothing prevents checking in logs short of storing it under water in a pond. Too much drying stress in a log to prevent cracks. All fruitwood starts cracking the minute it hits the ground. Cut the log to lengths you will use, then split it on the pith. Then seal it. The problems you are having to get out all the sanding scratches is a problem with walnut, especially on end grain. I suggest you spend more time with the finer grits to remove the scratches.

 

[Brian Gustin]

Thanks for the input.

One of the problems is that when I make these ashtrays, I laminate a light colored wood on top of a 3” thick piece of walnut, route the cigar rests on my router table, then turn the ashtray.

In the one above I used poplar but whatever I use will be kiln dried.

Can a 6” square 3” thick piece of walnut be dried in silica gel beads prior to gluing the lighter color wood on top, routing the cigar rests then turning the whole thing?

I’m not sure how to deal with this moisture discrepancy, and they’re hoping to get something back from me relatively soon. Like before several years drying time lol!

What I would do? I'd go over to a lumber website like crlumber.com or bells forest products and grab some 12/4 kiln dried walnut and use that instead... unless it's school with a lab that does DNA testing, probably wouldn't know the difference... Or, alternatively if it was a Technical College, I'd go talk to one of the professors there and explain the dilemma and have one of their classes or the other build me a kiln and teach me and the students a good method to dry 3 inch thick slabs...

 

[hockenbery]

The reason I ask is a local college admissions director just gave me a huge log from an old walnut tree that was cut down on their campus and asked if I could make several items from it, including several of these cigar ashtrays I designed:

I think you could rough turn the ashtrays and dry them rather quickly

Plan out how you would hold them for returning. Maybe sand the tops of 2 flat and face glue them maybe a spacer in between.
Then could return.

Could dry them in a microwave.

 

[hockenbery]

If you rough turn you can get a good estimate of the dimensions of the dried piece
Walnut shrinks radially ( center of tree to bark edge) 5.5%
Shrinks tangentially ( around the growth rings) 7.8%
Vertical shrinkage is near 0% - it’s why post&beam construction works with green wood.

If your rough turning is 7x7x2; your dry turning will be approximately 7x 6.6 x 1.8.
Need to consider the bowl dimension.

 

[Brian Kopp]

If you rough turn you can get a good estimate of the dimensions of the dried piece
Walnut shrinks radially ( center of tree to bark edge) 5.5%
Shrinks tangentially ( around the growth rings) 7.8%
Vertical shrinkage is near 0% - it’s why post&beam construction works with green wood.

If your rough turning is 7x7x2; your dry turning will be approximately 7x 6.6 x 1.8.
Need to consider the bowl dimension.
View attachment 61119

The admissions director just agreed to invert the colors, with walnut on top, hard maple in the middle, and walnut on the bottom, so that more of their walnut shows in the final ashtray.

I just picked up some nice 1” thick kiln dried hard maple.

I'm going to resaw some of the walnut so it’s 1 1/4” thick 7”x21” boards. I’ll put those in the silica gel beads till dry.

Then I’ll plane them then resaw and plane them again, and make those the top layer of the ashtray blanks, with the 1” hard maple in the middle and 1 1/4” walnut on the bottom.

Then I can finish making them as I did the prior versions.

Think the silica gel beads will work with drying 1 1/4” thick walnut boards?

 

[Paul Paukstelis]

Think the silica gel beads will work with drying 1 1/4” thick walnut boards?

Yes, but I would personally throw them in the microwave for a few cycles first, just to drive off some interior moisture before you get started with silica beads.

 

[Steve Tiedman]

Dry white rice works for wet cell phones. Burying a bowl blank within a pile of rice may work. Cheap and readily available. And the rice, like the silica gel beads, can be dried again in a low heat oven.

Silica gel does reach a saturation point. The internet probably has advice on how to dry it. And where to find it in bulk. Rice sounds cheaper, easier, and safer.

 

[Lou Jacobs]

What I would do? I'd go over to a lumber website like crlumber.com or bells forest products and grab some 12/4 kiln dried walnut and use that instead... unless it's school with a lab that does DNA testing, probably wouldn't know the difference...

Huh? Remind me not to entrust you with any personally meaningful wood.

 

[Brian Gustin]

Huh? Remind me not to entrust you with any personally meaningful wood.

In his particular situation - Agreeing to do such a project without explaining or understanding the time frame involved (months to years, lacking a kiln or other suitable drying/stabilizing process.) before finish product could be handed over, he was in a bit of a sticky situation if he was going to deliver a finished item in such a short time frame...as noted in his follow-up. (except for the fact it wasn't a formal contract..) - Either that or just suffer the loss of face and explain you can't do the job after all....

his later post (#10) would be a much better solution to that dilemma.

Myself; if asked to do such a thing I tell them up front in no uncertain terms it will be at least 6 months to a year before they see any finished product from me, before even agreeing to do a design, plan, or otherwise wasting anyone's time.
If they wanted instant gratification, they'd have to find someone dumb enough to give them some decorative firewood (which it would end up being if they turned it wet while glued up like that...), or someone with money to burn to hire or build a kiln for quick drying... or someone who'd just do as I suggested.

 

[Bernie Kopfer]

Back to the original question, does PVA work to seal logs? It works very well in my experience but I find it too expensive for logs and use it mostly on green turned bowls and spindle blanks. For which I’ve found it to be better than the wax based stuff. For logs a couple of coats of acrylic house paint holds the logs for a while. But Dean is right, getting fruitwood on the lathe before the chainsaw gets cold is a worthy goal.

 

[Dave Landers]

I've switched from anchor seal to PVA on logs, and it seems to work just as well - for me.
I don't use the Tree Saver stuff, but bought a gallon of white glue (generic Elmers) from a hobby store - pretty cheap stuff. I dilute it about 50/50 with water (or maybe a little less water, don't think it matters I just want it less thick and to soak in a bit).

FWIW I didn't switch because I was unhappy with anchor seal (except for the price). But I was out of town and needed to seal a couple logs to get them home, and the glue was easy, cheap, and available. Had run out of anchor seal at home anyway. Seems to be working well enough, so I'm sticking with it (pun partially intended).

 

[Rusty Nesmith]

Dry white rice works for wet cell phones. Burying a bowl blank within a pile of rice may work. Cheap and readily available. And the rice, like the silica gel beads, can be dried again in a low heat oven.

Silica gel does reach a saturation point. The internet probably has advice on how to dry it. And where to find it in bulk. Rice sounds cheaper, easier, and safer.

I saw a video from Carl Jacobson where he has been doing that.

 

[Brian Kopp]

I'm going to resaw some of the walnut so it’s 1 1/4” thick 7”x21” boards. I’ll put those in the silica gel beads till dry.

…

Think the silica gel beads will work with drying 1 1/4” thick walnut boards?

I made three boards that will fit in a five gallon bucket and nine pen blanks and placed them in a five gallon bucket with the silica gel drying beads for five days so far.

The boards will be used in bfab fashion.

I do not know when this tree was taken down, but some time last year. I had already had the original big crotch log cut into 2”, 4” and 6” thick slabs and had them sealed on the ends for a month.

I resawed a couple pieces to make three 1 1/4” thick boards and nine pieces for pen blanks and tracked their weight over the last five days sealed in the drying beads.

Board 1

4/7 3.40 lbs
4/8 3.27 lbs
4/9 3.19 lbs
4/10 3.15lbs
4/11 3.1

Board 2

4/7 3.43 lbs
4/8 3.32 lbs
4/9 3.25 lbs
4/10 3.21 lbs
4/11 3.18 lbs



Board 3

4/7 3.40 lbs
4/8 3.25 lbs
4/9 3.15 lbs
4/10 3.1 lbs
4/11 3.0 lbs

9 Pen blanks - weight loss 4/7 through 4/11

3.7 to 3.1 oz
4.55 to 4.05 oz
5.2 to 4.5 oz
5.75 to 4.95 oz
5.95 to 5.2 oz
6.25 to 5.45 oz
6.5 to 5.7 oz
7.05 to 6.2 oz
6.65 to 6.0 oz

I have no idea what percentage weight loss to expect but after 4 days in the beads they are no longer losing much weight, so I assume they’re ready to turn now.

But they’re going back in the beads one more day:

The vast majority of the beads are still blue with only a tiny handful starting to turn pink.

 

[Brian Kopp]

After four days in the beads there was some checking and cracking.

I used cheap Amazon beads: