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Questions about LED shop lights

Odie

Odie

Panning for Montana gold, with Betsy, the mule!
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Finally, one of my 4' fluorescent shop light fixture's ballast is going bad......so, as I decided a few years ago, I'm going to replace these fixtures with LED when they go bad. The one that went bad is the one that hangs directly over my lathe. I'm not sure how many lumens I need for this location, and I don't know how many lumens the fluorescent fixture had. I need at least as many lumens. Can you have too much lumens?

I'm looking at an ad for HF, and see 3,000, 5,000, 5,500, and 10,000 lumen units. All but the 3000 unit are "linkable"......but I don't know what that means. What does "linkable" mean?

https://www.harborfreight.com/search?q=4" LED shop light

Any insight you can offer is appreciated...

-----odie-----

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Well, linkable means you can plug one into another in a line, usually up to 6 fixtures. In other words you only need one outlet or one hard wired connection for up to 6 lights. As for the brightness of the HF lights, I can't comment but I have 4 dual fixtures in my small shop (8 tubes) and it's so much brighter than the same number of my old florescent lights that it's like night and day. My lights came from Costco and I am very glad I changed out the old lights.
 
I got something like these about 2 years ago and have been very happy with the upgrade. 5000K (daylight) color is what I went with. The actual thing I bought is not there anymore, but that link is close.

T8 fluorescent bulbs are about 2850 lumens each, so 5700 for a 2-tube fixture (at least when the bulbs are new and the ballast is working).

Linkable means they have a cord/plug on one end of the light strip, and an outlet on the other so you can chain them together.
 
I have 2 of the 5000 lumen HF lights in line over my lathe. The light output is great, but note that they also are not linkable.
 

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OK, thanks gentlemen....... :)

Looks like I need at least 5,000 lumens to match the fluorescent fixture I've been using. All the old fluorescent fixtures have their own power source, mostly through the existing incandescent ceiling lights.....so the linkable option is not necessary.

This is the information I needed.....thanks!

-----odie-----
 
Odie I just bought 4 5000 lumen fixtures for which I'll be replacing 4 fluorescent fixtures, should be here Tuesday. Recently added 4 of those led garage lights that have 4 flaps, quite bright. I saw the ad for harbor freight and checked Amazon where they were a couple bucks cheaper for a set of 4 (plus free delivery where here it is snowing with a foot in the forecast so I don't have to drive).
 
I have several of the 5500 lumen HF linkable lights and am pretty happy with them. Hey each have their own switch so can be turned on individually as needed. I put several around my Lathe so when hey are all on there are very few shadows. Being linkable did help with the wiring as I only needed on outlet and no extension cords.
 
I have 6 4-tube flourescent fixtures in my shop. I purchased compatible (T8 in my case) LED bulbs that use the same fixtures. You can get LED bulbs that are "ballast compatible". These just plug right into the fixture. However, since it is the ballasts that fail in those old flourescents, I opted for the LEDs that do not work off of a ballast. This meant some minor wire jumpers as there are two ballasts, each feeding 2 bulb sockets. These had to be joined together. Worth the hour of work to get rid of the ballasts. Mine are 5000 lumens shop is really bright. I got these from https://greenlightdepot.com/collections/led-tube-lights .


I also have a regular old fashion ceiling mount light socket right over my head stock. I replace that bulb with one of these 5000 lumen spots from Rockler https://www.rockler.com/lumen-led-utility-light-with-aluminum-shroud . That thing is perfect for over your work area. The ones with 4 adjustable panels are also nice. Just don't exceed the rating of your socket. My sockets are the old ceramic ones and will handle up to 100 watts.

You can get "fixtureless" lights that link together. These come with little clips to mount them to ceilings and walls. I bought a 4 pack of 4 footers a few weeks ago for less than $20. Some of the fixtureless are called refrigeration lights.
 
I went with 4pcs 10000 lumen fixtures replacing 4pcs 100w fluorescent high bay lights. I have high ceilings, these are at 10 ft above the floor, 5000K color. The difference was striking in light; day one I had a headache from the intensity. I never got a headache again. The interesting thing is I get far less shadows than the earlier lights. Even with these lights; my lathe is covered by additional lights focused on the piece. I highly recommend LED lighting over fluorescent. Definitely daylight color.
 
odie said:
Can you have too much lumens?
Click to expand...
Yes. You don't want a situation where turning around is like moving in/out of a movie theater.
The illumination of the work area will fall off as the square of the distance to the light, so that's another factor.
Odie, I think it's fair to say your fussy, so besides the color teperature, you'll want to look at the color rendering index (CRI) of any light you buy.
Unless they fail early, LED lights are forever so you tend to get stuck with your choices. I'd rather have an LED fixture with "bulb" sockets than a fixture with an integrated LED source. That way if it has to go I'm not removing, replacing and reinstalling an entire fixture.
Just my opinions.
 
Odie, I have slowly replaced 10 of the 14 4ft floresents in my shop with ones made by Honeywell, purchased at SamsClub. Lumens ratings can be quite decieving as the standards for measureing can be quite different. But 4ft floresants are pretty much all the same. These honeywells will be substantially brighter , I would estimate 40% or so.
 
I started getting the tubes that allow removal of ballast but the price of complete fixture has dropped so much I can get the whole thing at Home Depot or Lowes cheaper than the tubes. I use the 5000K daylight and even tho not all fixtures replaced I have already reduced the number of feet of lighting used. When I bought the house the shop had those terrible 8 foot fixtures. As I had them fail have replace each with one 4 foot LED.
 
Rural King has 6000 lumen fixtures. Some friends own a quilt shop. I installed a bunch of 4500 lumen fixtures in the store and the are much better than the fluorescent fixtures that were there. I just installed some 6000 lumen fixtures in a classroom and they are a little brighter and whiter light. I like the 6000.
 
I put new LED lights into my garage shop April of 2020. They are holding up great except for one that I had wired into the ceiling light and bumped really hard while on a ladder and 'zapped', so that one no longer works. I'm very pleased with this set and they light up an entire 2-car garage like it's daytime.

This is what I use: Barrina LED Shop Light, 40W 5000LM 5000K, 4FT Integrated Fixture, V Shape,T8 Light Tube, Daylight White, Clear Cover, High Output, LED Shop Lights for Garage Warehouse Workshop Basement (Pack of 6), $80 on Amazon.
 
It seems to me that a new LED fixture puts out more light than the fluorescent fixture it replaces, even though the lumens may be less. Maybe it has to do with the 'temperature' of the light produced ('blue' headlights seem brighter and more obnoxious than the older, yellower headlights, as an example). In any case, a 4000 lumen LED light may be equivalent to that 5600 lumen fluorescent one.
 
While a change in light color can appear as increased lumen output, a lot of the increased light output from new lights is actually increased output. All types of bulbs loose lumen output over time. Old fluorescents could easily be down 30% or more vs original rating.

1638463090382.png
 
Doug Freeman said:
While a change in light color can appear as increased lumen output, a lot of the increased light output from new lights is actually increased output. All types of bulbs loose lumen output over time. Old fluorescents could easily be down 30% or more vs original rating.
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Doug you bring up a very good point. This is part of the reason at one time retail chains would change out all fluorescent bulbs every 3 to 4 years, but in home shop that could get costly. This not only increases light output but I believe saves electricity and ballasts last longer. I have not heard before that LED also suffers from this problem although I see it is way down the line in the life .
 
The 5500 lumen HF has in my option better switches than the 5000 lumen. I have both and have only been buying the 5500 lately. It is brighter than the 2 tube fluorescent at least visually.
 
On the left are 4 4’ fluorescent fixtures and on the fight are 2, 4500 LED fixtures.
 

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My set of four 5000 led fixtures came and in 20 minutes I changed them out. I'd say at least about 25% brighter than what was up there. Still have 2 old ones but will replace them. My 4 8 footers as the bulbs fail I will replace them with LEDs.
 
My experience with LED's is you are much better off to spend more for a better fixture. If you error on multiple lights with higher lumens the better fixtures have the option of putting in a dimmer switch on . It has to be a dimmer switch specifically for LED's but that would allow you to control the amount of light that you like.
I love LED's and the energy savings over fluorescents was noticeable when I changed out my dozen or so 4 bulb troffer's with LED.
 
Bill Blasic said:
I'd say at least about 25% brighter than what was up there. Still have 2 old ones but will replace them. My 4 8 footers as the bulbs fail I will replace them with LEDs.
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Yep......the LED lights are at least that much brighter.

Same plan here.....replace old fluorescent lights, as they go bad.

Since I still have several replacement fluorescent bulbs in stock, this could take awhile.

This isn't a matter of being thrifty, as IMHO, the fluorescent light output seems adequate.....now that I have a direct comparison.

-----odie-----
 
The biggest drawback to some of the cheaper LED luminaires that use exposed diodes can create glare in the workspace.
The intense glare from these exposed diodes can cause the pupil of your eyes to close down, which limits your vision and can cause headaches.
A diffused lens or reflector can make for a better-quality luminaire in a workspace if you spend a lot of time working under LED lighting.
 
odie said:
Finally, one of my 4' fluorescent shop light fixture's ballast is going bad......so, as I decided a few years ago, I'm going to replace these fixtures with LED when they go bad. The one that went bad is the one that hangs directly over my lathe. I'm not sure how many lumens I need for this location, and I don't know how many lumens the fluorescent fixture had. I need at least as many lumens. Can you have too much lumens?

I'm looking at an ad for HF, and see 3,000, 5,000, 5,500, and 10,000 lumen units. All but the 3000 unit are "linkable"......but I don't know what that means. What does "linkable" mean?

https://www.harborfreight.com/search?q=4" LED shop light

Any insight you can offer is appreciated...

-----odie-----

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Click to expand...
The older your eyes the more Lumens you need. pay attention to the color of the light if an option is given. I prefer "Daylight" as you can tell the true color of the wood or stain. Linkable means they come with a power cable that plugs into the first (or only) light and on the other end is another plug and they supply a short double ended cable to allow you to power a second, third or 4th light off of the first one without adding another power outlet to your ceiling.
 
Gerald Lawrence said:
Odie I think what Mike was referring to was the fact that some lights are made with a clear cover and the LED which makes the light shown to the human eye. If the tube is frosted then that averts the possible problem.
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OK, Gerald........I think the tube is frosted. :)

Still......it is very bright. I had to remount the fixture, so that the glare it emits, is positioned a bit differently. It's definitely a el-cheapo light.

-----odie-----
 
In an earlier post I mentioned shop lights I bought at sams club. UPDATE: just had one go out and discovered they are no longer available.... furthermore when trying to reach honeywell to get a warranty replacement ...uh..er.... lets just say Honeywell's customer service is a vacum cleaner.... i'll replace with another brand
 
In the commercial and industrial world, the other drawback to LED lighting is the amount of harmonic distortion the solid-state power supplies
that power the LED luminaires add to the electrical system. The cheaper LED luminaires usually have lower quality power supplies that generate 20% to 25% harmonic distortion on your electrical system. this can cause heating issues with the transformers, breakers, panels and wiring on the facility electrical system and can also generate noise on the electrical system that can interfere with other sensitive equipment within the facility.
 
odie said:
Yep......the LED lights are at least that much brighter.

Same plan here.....replace old fluorescent lights, as they go bad.

Since I still have several replacement fluorescent bulbs in stock, this could take awhile.

This isn't a matter of being thrifty, as IMHO, the fluorescent light output seems adequate.....now that I have a direct comparison.

-----odie-----
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Odie,

I have replaced almost all of my fluorescent lights with LED but these are things I'd consider if I were to need to replace the LED's at some point:
1. 5000 lumens is great but it's a lot of light, especially with the 5000K which is daylight. It isn't really daylight. It's very bright white light and it can sometimes almost be too bright. It's a very cold light, sort of like fluorescent, but much brighter and whiter.

2. I would replace some of the fluorescents with 3000K LED's which are more like soft white. Having them at a couple of places on the ceiling would, I think, tone down the whole atmosphere of the shop and the brightness of the daylight LED's. I don't believe that the softer light is any less bright just less harsh. When I replaced mine, the softer white (3000 K not lumens) wasn't available. Now it is starting to be available. Maybe try a couple of the daylight version and see what you think. They are nice and bright.

3. I've had a couple LED shop lights fail. These weren't Harbor Freight so I don't know whether theirs are just cheaper but no different than other suppliers.

4. Linkable lights are nice if you don't have sufficient places in your shop to plug lights in. If you do, it probably isn't that important.

Randy
 
I bought 4-two packs of led lights from Cosco. Really cheap deal. They are 3-4 ft long came with) chain mounting kits and a remote control for each one, can link together or all seperate. Best thing is they are motion controlled. And dimmable to any amount o& light I want. I believe they where 19.95 each or the two pack for $40. They are awesome.
 
Randy Heinemann said:
Odie,

I have replaced almost all of my fluorescent lights with LED but these are things I'd consider if I were to need to replace the LED's at some point:
1. 5000 lumens is great but it's a lot of light, especially with the 5000K which is daylight. It isn't really daylight. It's very bright white light and it can sometimes almost be too bright. It's a very cold light, sort of like fluorescent, but much brighter and whiter.

2. I would replace some of the fluorescents with 3000K LED's which are more like soft white. Having them at a couple of places on the ceiling would, I think, tone down the whole atmosphere of the shop and the brightness of the daylight LED's. I don't believe that the softer light is any less bright just less harsh. When I replaced mine, the softer white (3000 K not lumens) wasn't available. Now it is starting to be available. Maybe try a couple of the daylight version and see what you think. They are nice and bright.

3. I've had a couple LED shop lights fail. These weren't Harbor Freight so I don't know whether theirs are just cheaper but no different than other suppliers.

4. Linkable lights are nice if you don't have sufficient places in your shop to plug lights in. If you do, it probably isn't that important.

Randy
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You're right, Randy....

If I had it to do over again, I'd get the 3000 lumen lamp for just over the lathe. The 5000 lumen lamp I bought will work ok, because I have it angled, so that it shines directly down, and to the rear of the lathe. I found it uncomfortably bright when the lamp hung as it was intended.....and, was more so in my face. When the time comes, I may take this 5000 lumen lamp down, and replace it with a 3000 lumen lamp.....and, put this one somewhere else.

The fluorescent lamps that are still working, may take some time for the ballasts to go bad, or to the point where I still have no replacement bulbs. The light output of the fluorescent bulbs seems adequate for the purpose.

One other thing to consider, is I have fairly low ceilings. The 5000 lumen lamps might be better for shops that have higher ceilings.

-----odie-----
 
Randy Heinemann said:
I would replace some of the fluorescents with 3000K LED's which are more like soft white. Having them at a couple of places on the ceiling would, I think, tone down the whole atmosphere of the shop and the brightness of the daylight LED's.
Click to expand...
I agree with Randy's comments about Kelvins and about lumens.

As to mixing 3000K & 5000K light sources in the shop, I tried this with the fluorescent tubes I put up several years ago. Even tried one of each in the same fixture and it just looked... I'm struggling for a better adjective... wrong. Just obviously mismatched. The light didn't blend on the workbench, either. You moved from a pool of warm white to pool of cold blue light.

You can try the experiment easily enough, but you'll want to make sure the two lights can be easily returned, because I think you'll be taking one or the other of them back.
 
Many folks with older eyes see better when there is more contrast. The 5000K lights seem to produce more contrast compared to the more 'pleasant' 'warm' 3000K lights. Perhaps an excess of lumens could wash out contrast, though I don't have a sense on that.
 
Dean Center said:
Many folks with older eyes see better when there is more contrast. The 5000K lights seem to produce more contrast compared to the more 'pleasant' 'warm' 3000K lights. Perhaps an excess of lumens could wash out contrast, though I don't have a sense on that.
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I like the fact that the LED lights I have are very bright as I see things better (and I'm 70) but the coldness of the bright white is sometimes too much. Now there are LED shop lights on which you can select the type of light from 3000K - 5000K.
 
Seems like there's some confusion here over lumens - the actual output of the led lights - and the temperature of the light thats emitted in degrees Kelvin. 3000K or 5000K led lights refer to the color temperature and have little to do with the actual output in lumens. If you prefer a 'daylight' balanced light (it actually has a higher blue content), get 5000K or higher leds. If you prefer a warmer light, opt for 3000K or 2800K lights. Personally, after spending a lot of work time over the past four decades in 'daylight' balanced light, I find it irritating (like living in a fish bowl) and prefer a warmer balance. The ability to discern color is very nearly identical, since our eyes adapt to the conditions we put them in quite easily.
Lumens measure the actual quantity of light produced - you can find high output lights in either 500K or 2800K versions if you look hard enough.
 
JeffSmith said:
The ability to discern color is very nearly identical, since our eyes adapt to the conditions we put them in quite easily.
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Not so for me. I notice a substantial difference in wood stain/dye color between 3000k and 5000k. If you color wood I would recommend you do a comparison - all of our eyes dont work the same.
 
For me brighter is better and better for me is daylight. Whether that be actual daylight or daylight rated lighting. I too see a difference in colors with different lighting. I have had florescent lighting in my shop for the last 17 years. I recently added 4 of those 4 paddle LED garage lights and now replaced 4 of the 4' florescent ones and it makes a huge difference and as stated somewhere above I'll replace the 4 8' dual florescent lights as they wear out (that may be never as they have been up there for many many years and I've only replaced 2). Even with that I'm very happy with the brightness that the LEDs have added to the shop.
 
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