I will soon be taking a path to the world of basket illusions and would appreciate your recommendations for bench top smoke evacuators including the types of filters you use. Thank you.
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Recommendations needed for smoke evacuation for pyrography
- Thread starter John Husokowski
- Start date
I don't use any, but then I'm not burning wood, I'm coloring it with heat. At best, I get little whiffs of odor. Basket illusions are meant to be just that, illusions that mimic woven baskets. They don't have dark black lines between the strands of reed used for weaving.
To paraphrase a comment from Bill Boehme, if you are sending out smoke signals, you might want to turn down the heat a little bit.
To paraphrase a comment from Bill Boehme, if you are sending out smoke signals, you might want to turn down the heat a little bit.
Ditto!
I am following this thread, with interest. What do people use to filter smoke when they are using pyrography for other surface enhancements/embellishments, or carving?
To paraphrase Graeme Priddle, if the wood isn't squeaking, you are wasting your time. To get a hard black burned line, you have to make smoke.
I do a fair amount of both basket illusion and pyrography on many of my turnings. Like Tim Connell said, you shouldn't be burning hot enough to create smoke on basket work. I use a burnmaster and the heat setting is between 1 and 2 on a scale of 1-10. If it gets to where it won't burn a line at that setting, it's probably because there's a little carbon building up on the pen tip. There are a lot of way to clean the pen tip. I use a small brass brush and it only takes a couple of strokes and I'm back in business. Different woods carbon up the pen at different rates.
For heavy burning I rarely set the burner above 7. That does create a significant amount of smoke. My wife won't allow me to do either inside the house though. I prefer to burn outside when the weather allows or in my garage when it doesn't. For both I have a cheap box fan about 10' from me to blow the smoke away. It has 3 settings and you can decide how much of a breeze you want blowing past you. Pyrography and branding also create a few cinders that will come off the pen. Get a cheap leather welding apron from harbor freight to prevent holes in your clothes and body parts. Hope that helps.
For heavy burning I rarely set the burner above 7. That does create a significant amount of smoke. My wife won't allow me to do either inside the house though. I prefer to burn outside when the weather allows or in my garage when it doesn't. For both I have a cheap box fan about 10' from me to blow the smoke away. It has 3 settings and you can decide how much of a breeze you want blowing past you. Pyrography and branding also create a few cinders that will come off the pen. Get a cheap leather welding apron from harbor freight to prevent holes in your clothes and body parts. Hope that helps.
Thanks Curt,
I appreciate your feedback as well as all of the other members who have contributed. Upon further research in the forum I noticed that there were comments about this issue on August 2, 2022 entitled:
I appreciate your feedback as well as all of the other members who have contributed. Upon further research in the forum I noticed that there were comments about this issue on August 2, 2022 entitled:
Breathing Smoke from Pyrography
I understand that only low settings are used for basket illusion work, but I guess it’s a matter of degree. If the wood is turning color and there is a perceptible smell I would think some of those gas particles would be entering one’s lungs. If I could minimize this issue with a fume/smoke extractor I probably would feel more comfortable. I do respect everybody’s thoughts on this thread. Thank you.
Roger Wiegand
Beta Tester
A small dust collector blower or other inline blower with a 4" flex pipe that can be positioned near the work and vented outside (use this on a laser cutter I set up), or an enclosed hood with a kitchen hood above, again venting outside. 3-400 cfm should be plenty if the back and sides are enclosed. Use a smoke candle to test whether the flows are sufficient.
Just as I start typing, Roger says it for me!
I was going to suggest a high CFM bath fan, but I like the low cost, basic kitchen hood fan idea even better, higher CFM than bath fans and half (or all) of the enclosure/hood work is already done.
Have the hood assembly built overhead-ish, or stand it vertically on its back side on top your bench, and do your burning work right at the hood. Flex duct it (or hard duct if you choose) to the exterior, even as simple as hanging the duct out the window. About $90 for this Broan 2-speed (190cfm max), with light, kitchen hood at Home Depot. I looked it up at the Broan NuTone website and it attaches to 7" duct.
Sounds impressive, and as long as your burning is within, say, 16-18 inches of the fan (or as close as possible) it should work well. More than that and it won't do what you want it to- catch everything.
If there is no visible smoke, but if you can smell a burning process, there are carcinogens and nasty gasses present that you really don't want to breathe in. Working outside with the wind at your back, or in very close proximity of an exhaust fan moving combustion byproducts away from you, will always be best for the human being doing the work.
Not exactly the same conditions of wood burning, but his will put perspective on what is given off when wood burns-
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I use a small fan to "suck" the smoke and fumes away. Anything that blows directly on what you are burning will cool the tip of the pen and cause problems.
Donna Banfield
TOTW Team
I do plenty of carving and pyro-engraving with high heat woodburning tips. Like Jacques Vesery, Laurent Niclot, Rick Cannon, Graeme Priddle and Molly Winton, to name just a few makers who do this type of work. Molly Winton no longer can do this type of work, as she developed severe respiratory issues. I didn't want to follow in her footsteps, so I invested in a good air filter. I currently use this: Germ Guardian Air Filter/Purifier
It is a floor model room air purifier. The tower stands a bit over two feet high. and has both a HEPA and charcoal filter. I place it right on my carving bench, just inches away, and it pulls all the smoke. However, I only do this work in my studio. I would not recommend doing this type of heavy burning in your home or any space attached to your home. Despite the filters, after an evening of heavy burning, there is still the smell of the smoke in my studio the next morning.
It is a floor model room air purifier. The tower stands a bit over two feet high. and has both a HEPA and charcoal filter. I place it right on my carving bench, just inches away, and it pulls all the smoke. However, I only do this work in my studio. I would not recommend doing this type of heavy burning in your home or any space attached to your home. Despite the filters, after an evening of heavy burning, there is still the smell of the smoke in my studio the next morning.
Air flow is air flow. If sucking or blowing moves the same amount of air over the work it could affect the tip temperature.
Keep in mind, filters that may stop smoke particulates will not stop noxious fumes (gasses). CO, CO2, NO, and a host of other gaseous byproducts will go right through particulate filters unimpeded. You don't want to breathe these things, even in seemingly small amounts they do you and your body (and brain) no good.
Actually it is quite a bit different, give it a try and you will see what I mean.
I don’t get enough smoke from basket illusion to need anything.
I do a fair amount of pyro work, and usually use a combination of a fan blowing air past the side of my piece (creating a low pressure area surrounding my piece/tip, as well as a air filter similar to what Donna mentioned. Occasionally I’ll blow air over the piece if burning a lot or having ventilation issues—in that case I usually increase the heat to compensate for the effect on the tip. Not ideal I was trying to do fine pyro work (ex shading/gradients), but for burning texture it’s okay.
I do like the idea of an oven hood though. Ingenious.
I do like the idea of an oven hood though. Ingenious.
I made my own with a inline fan, the type that goes inside A/C ducts. Made a box to hold it and placed an activated charcoal filter in front of it with the air flow away from me.
smoke absorber
or this is one of the less expensive types,
smoke absorber
or this is one of the less expensive types,
john lucas
AAW Forum Expert
I use a muffin fan that I aim past the piece so it doesn't cool the burning tip. Then I have a dust collector on the other side to pick up the smoke from the fan. This is extremely important when I'm using the Kehys cup cutters. They produce a huge amount smoke.
I'm glad you mentioned the Keh's cup cutters. I got a set recently and I can't make then cut very well unless I up the speed and then they burn more than cut. I'm glad to hear that might just be what they're supposed to do.
Donna Banfield
TOTW Team
Curt, you need to sharpen the outside edges of the cutters. If your cutter edges are flat on the top, they won’t work. Understand, that these were never originally designed for wood, but for rounding the ends of wire. That’s why the interior of the cups have ‘cutters’. You can use diamond stones, or sandpaper. Putting them on a grinder will take too much off, too fast.
Thanks Donna! I'll give that a try.
john lucas
AAW Forum Expert
The cutters work best when hot. When I put a fresh cutter in my Dremel I run at high speed. I make three or four burns in scrap wood to heat the cutter up. Then it doesn't try to walk as bad when you start the cut (burn). I did sharpen the edge but it didn't seem to make much difference. Oh and when you finished dont try to remove tge cutter with your fingers. Only takes once to figure that out.
Attachments
exactly! I bought a 12x12" air filter with a high mpr rating, built a stand for it and a small desk fan Positioning the fan so it blows smoke away from the work piece into the filter. works great.
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Tom Gall
TOTW Team
Those 'cute' little cutting edges on a new cup cutter last about two seconds in wood - then it's all friction and SMOKE !!! ... and high speed is helpful for control but that makes even more smoke. Mike told me many years ago to thin the outer edge (diameter) of the cutter. Maybe I misunderstood him, but I have been doing this by mounting the cutter in my micromotor (on slow speed) and holding the side parallel to the CBN wheel and lightly and carefully grinding away some metal until the edge is much thinner.
Try to enter the cut at a slight angle and then immediately straighten the tool to get a perpendicular entry. This eliminates the tendency for the cutter to run - especially if you thin the edge as mentioned above.
john lucas
AAW Forum Expert
Tom. I find going straight down but starting with light pressure works best for me. I've probably done a more than 100 burns with these and feel pretty confident but always learning.
Put a chair out on the front porch of your shop and only burn when there is a breeze. With your back to the wind, all gets blown away from you. I do this with dust from carving with a microcarver also.
Tom Gall
TOTW Team
That would be ideal, Hugh.
However, a lot of different elements have got to come together to make that scenario work.Weather - time of day - breeze - available electrical power - when you have the time to work on the project - need to carry equipment & project outdoors, etc.
In my case, my shop is in the basement and I'm somewhat handicapped ... difficult, if not impossible, to carry some stuff while doing the stairs.Tom,
My climate is not your climate.
My shop setup is not your shop setup.
I do not do any burning in my shop. Dislike the smoke and fumes.
I happen to live in an area that has fairly nice climate. Even in the winter time, one can wear a jacket and go sit on the porch of the shop.
Sometimes, I move everything to the back porch of the house and work on stuff there. Micro Motor, burning, carving.
My shop only has a small porch, but enough room to sit and do stuff. I sand out there also.
Most afternoons, there is a breeze and one just needs to sit in the proper direction and the dust, smoke, fumes all go the other way.
Get to do some bird watching while I am out there also.
We all do what we have to do to make stuff.
Try a backpack to carry items up the stairs. Leaves both hands and arms available to move around safely.
My climate is not your climate.
My shop setup is not your shop setup.
I do not do any burning in my shop. Dislike the smoke and fumes.
I happen to live in an area that has fairly nice climate. Even in the winter time, one can wear a jacket and go sit on the porch of the shop.
Sometimes, I move everything to the back porch of the house and work on stuff there. Micro Motor, burning, carving.
My shop only has a small porch, but enough room to sit and do stuff. I sand out there also.
Most afternoons, there is a breeze and one just needs to sit in the proper direction and the dust, smoke, fumes all go the other way.
Get to do some bird watching while I am out there also.
We all do what we have to do to make stuff.
Try a backpack to carry items up the stairs. Leaves both hands and arms available to move around safely.
If I was going to do really heavy burning with deep detail and lots of charing I'd invest in a smoke evacuator like is used for welding. I see them sometimes on marketplace used. It's a safe way of getting the smoke vented outside.
I'm pretty much with some of the other folks on this discussion - I've done a fair amount of basket illusion work over the past 2 years, I use a relatively low setting & I normally only get a very tiny wisps of smoke when burning the beads and rim. There is never any hanging smoke in the room/area when I'm doing this work. My craft room does have windows that I open for a fresh air source & I do have a small fan that I position to vent out the window. When in my garage/shop I have a larger fan & I can simply open one of the doors when needed. There are a variety of venting fans & fume extractors on the market & if my set up were different (with no windows or fresh air source) I would probably be using something that draws the air away from the work & filters the air in the room. But again, the burn lines for doing basket illusion work are not the same as regular burning or branding. As a comparison - when I'm working on a basket, I do not see any hanging smoke & I barely get a whiff of burnt wood --- quite the opposite when my wife burns a stick of incense ...