Regrind Standard Bowl Gouge to 40/40 Grind

[Lewis Elliott]

I would like a critique of my bowl gouge regrind results. I attempted to convert a standard "out-of-the-box-grind" bowl gouge to a 40/40 grind. I used the Vari-Grind 2 and the Ron Brown 40/40 Bowl Gouge setup tool (tool #4). Please take a look at the attached pictures and let me know if I came close? I will attempt to take the tool to the wood after I finish setting up my turning station. I measured the bevel and it was 40 degrees, I measured the angle of the wing and it was very close to 40 degrees (due more to my reshaping than the setup). I used Ron Brown's instructions, plus some other information, to arrive at the results. I am new to the turning world so this is only my third turning tool sharpening attempt. I previously reshaped and sharpened my 1-1/2+ Spindle Rough Out Gouge (SRG) from the "out of the box" 45 degrees to 40 degrees using the Wolverine "vee-arm".

 

[Brian Gustin]

Other than that pronounced facet on the left wing (Needs more blending into the nose) it looks good to me... but then I've only done a "sort of" 40-40 grind on wolverine vari-grind , but I do get a smoother rounded shape (experience) , and usually I go for a swept-back wing A La Ellsworth Grind or Irish Grind... and even then I think I could probably do far better if I had a gouge that was already professionally ground to the grind I was shooting for (or maybe I lucked out and couldn't improve it much, but I will never know until I buy a gouge that has an actual proper grind to it) But, for being self-taught, I'd say it's pretty durn good for a first try.

 

[Lewis Elliott]

Other than that pronounced facet on the left wing (Needs more blending into the nose) it looks good to me... but then I've only done a "sort of" 40-40 grind on wolverine vari-grind , but I do get a smoother rounded shape (experience) , and usually I go for a swept-back wing A La Ellsworth Grind or Irish Grind... and even then I think I could probably do far better if I had a gouge that was already professionally ground to the grind I was shooting for (or maybe I lucked out and couldn't improve it much, but I will never know until I buy a gouge that has an actual proper grind to it) But, for being self-taught, I'd say it's pretty durn good for a first try.

Thanks Brian. That is what I was looking for. Addressing your desire for a reference tool for sharpening your Irish-grind bowl gouges, have you looked into the Henry Taylor Profile-Pro Set-Up tool sold by Craft Supplies USA? You can get the combination Irish & Flat Bottom Gouge sample grind set up tool for $16.95 (you can use it to help setup your vari-grind, and to visualize the proper shape for the grind). They also sell two other combo set up tools, and the entire set of six choices sells for about $44.00 I think.

 

[Brian Gustin]

Thanks Brian. That is what I was looking for. Addressing your desire for a reference tool for sharpening your Irish-grind bowl gouges, have you looked into the Henry Taylor Profile-Pro Set-Up tool sold by Craft Supplies USA? You can get the combination Irish & Flat Bottom Gouge sample grind set up tool for $16.95 (you can use it to help setup your vari-grind, and to visualize the proper shape for the grind). They also sell two other combo set up tools, and the entire set of six choices sells for about $44.00 I think.

Hmm.. have to look into that, didn't know such a thing existed. Thanks.

 

[JeffSmith]

Looking at that last phot, it looks like your wing - at least the left one with the facet is also a little concave. As I learned the 40/40, the wing should be straight or just slightly convex. I’ve used Ron Brown’s set up tool for the varigrind, and it works good. Took a slight adjustment to get to a true 40/40, but it was pretty simple. I’ve been using it on a couple of the Robust Tools gouges—with the flat ground the length of the flute they make it easy to get the 3” stickout required even when they get short. Once you know what your grind should look like, with a little practice on an old tool, it’s not that difficult to skip the varigrind and platform sharpen the 40/40.

 

[Lewis Elliott]

Looking at that last phot, it looks like your wing - at least the left one with the facet is also a little concave. As I learned the 40/40, the wing should be straight or just slightly convex. I’ve used Ron Brown’s set up tool for the varigrind, and it works good. Took a slight adjustment to get to a true 40/40, but it was pretty simple. I’ve been using it on a couple of the Robust Tools gouges—with the flat ground the length of the flute they make it easy to get the 3” stickout required even when they get short. Once you know what your grind should look like, with a little practice on an old tool, it’s not that difficult to skip the varigrind and platform sharpen the 40/40.

Thanks Jeff.

 

[Doug Freeman]

By eye it appears you are spot on - darn good job for a newb. Get rid of the facet glitch in the left wing and “cut on”. It will require grinding the nose and right wing down, and make sure the left wing has NO concavity.

“Rounding” the bottom of the gouge where the bevel meets the OD reduces bruising and lets the acute angle get further around an inner corner, like a bowl ID.

Were you aware of the flub in the left wing? It is important that you recognize that typer of error, and smaller ones, to get a good grind. I find new turners that are not used to creating edges (be it knives, hand tools, etc) dont know to look for sometimes small details that make a difference.

 

[Lewis Elliott]

By eye it appears you are spot on - darn good job for a newb. Get rid of the facet glitch in the left wing and “cut on”. It will require grinding the nose and right wing down, and make sure the left wing has NO concavity.

“Rounding” the bottom of the gouge where the bevel meets the OD reduces bruising and lets the acute angle get further around an inner corner, like a bowl ID.

Were you aware of the flub in the left wing? It is important that you recognize that typer of error, and smaller ones, to get a good grind. I find new turners that are not used to creating edges (be it knives, hand tools, etc) dont know to look for sometimes small details that make a difference.

Good input, thanks Doug.

 

[Tom Albrecht]

Personally, after a lot of free hand trial and error, I settled on the Ron Brown's Best system. I get consistently perfect 40/40 results with parabolic fluted tools.

 

[robo hippy]

Don't remember how long ago I started using the 40/40 grind. Since I turned almost daily back then, it was an easy transformation. When sharpening on a platform, it was no problem to switch turning skills to sharpening skills. One thing about the 40/40 grind, for me anyway, is that my grinds are never perfect. All of my main gouges are V flutes, the more open variations from D Way and Thompson. Can't really tell what brand you have there. Biggest problem with the V flute is to spend too much time on the side of the nose which leads to a slight 'bird's beak' or dip near the nose. They still cut, and I use till dull, then sharpen again, and make it a bit better. The nose is usually pretty close to center, and the wings never seem to sweep back the same amount, but they still cut. They are the main reason I never use a swept back grind any more.

robo hippy

 

[Brian Deakin]

Please see the link Below Stuart sharpening tools including the 40 40 grind

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhlMQr7Hk0k&ab_channel=DeniseSawyer

 

[Brian Deakin]

Best link for Stuart Batty including diagram 40 40 grind

Stuart Batty Training Info | Des Moines Woodturners

 

[Lewis Elliott]

Don't remember how long ago I started using the 40/40 grind. Since I turned almost daily back then, it was an easy transformation. When sharpening on a platform, it was no problem to switch turning skills to sharpening skills. One thing about the 40/40 grind, for me anyway, is that my grinds are never perfect. All of my main gouges are V flutes, the more open variations from D Way and Thompson. Can't really tell what brand you have there. Biggest problem with the V flute is to spend too much time on the side of the nose which leads to a slight 'bird's beak' or dip near the nose. They still cut, and I use till dull, then sharpen again, and make it a bit better. The nose is usually pretty close to center, and the wings never seem to sweep back the same amount, but they still cut. They are the main reason I never use a swept back grind any more.

robo hippy

Thanks robo.

 

[Lewis Elliott]

Don't remember how long ago I started using the 40/40 grind. Since I turned almost daily back then, it was an easy transformation. When sharpening on a platform, it was no problem to switch turning skills to sharpening skills. One thing about the 40/40 grind, for me anyway, is that my grinds are never perfect. All of my main gouges are V flutes, the more open variations from D Way and Thompson. Can't really tell what brand you have there. Biggest problem with the V flute is to spend too much time on the side of the nose which leads to a slight 'bird's beak' or dip near the nose. They still cut, and I use till dull, then sharpen again, and make it a bit better. The nose is usually pretty close to center, and the wings never seem to sweep back the same amount, but they still cut. They are the main reason I never use a swept back grind any more.

robo hippy

The gouge is a Sorby

 

[L P "Smokey" Stevens]

The best part of the learning curve is that This skill will continue to improve with practice. I wish that I was knowledgeable enough to critique this 40/40 gouge. Although so far I have only sharpened one BB new bowl gouge. It was at last months Coastal Bend Woodturners Chapter(South Texas) monthly learn and turn utilizing the One Way Sharpening system with the Vari Grind 2 jig. there is just as much to learn as there is money to spend.Best of luck to you on your future endeavor……..Smokey

 

[Lewis Elliott]

The best part of the learning curve is that This skill will continue to improve with practice. I wish that I was knowledgeable enough to critique this 40/40 gouge. Although so far I have only sharpened one BB new bowl gouge. It was at last months Coastal Bend Woodturners Chapter(South Texas) monthly learn and turn utilizing the One Way Sharpening system with the Vari Grind 2 jig. there is just as much to learn as there is money to spend.Best of luck to you on your future endeavor……..Smokey

I’m also a beginner turner. Daunting but exciting. Lots to learn, and much to possibly spend as time progresses. My approach is to keep your skill level in mind, progress at a pace that fits your lifestyle and comfort level and don’t give up. Lots of luck.