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Removing Shavings from Hollow Forms and Dust Collectors

Kirk Amidon

Kirk Amidon

Joined
Jan 8, 2021
Messages
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Location
Wrentham, MA
I've been using a shop vac with a dust deputy for removing the shavings from hollow forms and it works well. Recently, a real dust collector with a larger dust deputy has invaded my shop. This has replaced the shop vac for everything else. Like many of us, my shop is overcrowded with tools, and if possible, I'd like to move on from the shop vac set up. I know the differences between how shop vacs and dust collectors work, but I'm wondering about the wisdom of using the DC for hollow form shavings, given that the tubing steps down to 1". Anyone doing this?

My options to help save space would be to get rid of the shop vac set up - and either use the DC for the hollow forms, or I could consider a smaller shop vac dedicated to just the hollow forms, and would have one without the overhead of the dust deputy and huge stand.

I don't want to use compressed air for shavings.
 
Jaramiah Severns said:
Are you vacuuming the shaving directly from the hollow form? What the aversion to using compressed air?
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I usually use(d) compressed air when hollowing until I read here about the amount of dust I was spewing into the air around the shop, and certainly into my lungs. I’m now using a plastic tube in the mouth to blow out finer dust and a shop vac, located in a shed attached to my shop with a remote switch, for coarser shavings. More effort but less likelihood of early COPD, I hope.
 
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Kirk Amidon said:
I don't want to use compressed air for shavings.
Click to expand...

While compressed air works well to remove shavings, the pressure sure blows them and particles all over the place.

I find that a lower pressure/volume helps reduce this but still removes the shavings. Recently I was given two different battery powered rechargeable air devices. one is very strong (clocked at 40mph 12" from the nozzle. The other one is an inexpensive cordless "dust off" blower, much less air velocity and volume with a longer, slender nozzle. It removes shavings and sawdust but more gracefully.

Not much air is usually needed for the hollow forms I've done - I've seen several demonstrators use a plastic soda straw for small hollow forms.

One idea is instead of the soda straw to use longer flexible tube with lung pressure - keeps the face and eyes away from the opening. A perfect small flexible hose comes with breath-powered melodica musical keyboard instruments, a bit larger diameter than a straw. But a length of clear flexible plastic tubing from the hardware store would work. (BTW, when I buy tubing I get 3' of every size to see what works best for various tasks! - so handy to have on hand)

If I did a lot of hollow forms and didn't want to blow dust and shavings into the room I might consider constructing something that has both compressed air and a DC pickup. I haven't tried this but it seems like it would work. Maybe something like plastic container with a wide mouth to connect a DC hose (a Metamucil container comes to mind or perhaps a milk carton), then a compressed air tube entering from the side through a loose hole, long enough to push deep into larger forms. Connect both and turn on the compressed air. My cyclone has a remote switch at the lathe. Seems to me the compressed air would blow the chips out into the container while the DC pickup hose would collected them. If my thinking is right it might completely clean out the form and put nothing in the air.

If the vacuum from the DC was too strong (it wound be from my big cyclone), perhaps a few vent holes could be cut on the side. I might try making one in my spare time and see how it works.

Oh, while writing this I see Lou mentioned something similar.
 
I use my air compressor to blow put the shavings of my hollow forms. I have my dust collector spout near the opening. I also wear a Peke respirator face shield.
When hollowing green forms I use a scoop to pull the longer shavings out. Then my air compressor to blow out tge smaller dust.
 
Jaramiah Severns said:
Are you vacuuming the shaving directly from the hollow form? What the aversion to using compressed air?
Click to expand...

Primarily the mess. I've tried it, and it is not for me. I've also tried the straw/tube approach which fell short. The current approach is to stick an appropriate sized tube into the mouth of the form, most of the larger ones have a 1" hole, and a piece of 3/4" pvc fits perfectly. With a heat gun, the pvc can be bent into a curve, which gets into the shoulder areas as needed. As others noted, using a scoop/spoon is helpful too.
 
john lucas said:
I use my air compressor to blow put the shavings of my hollow forms. I have my dust collector spout near the opening.
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I had thought that suggesting something like john has done would be a good idea, but John actually did it.
Several years ago I made some vacuum nozzles out of EMT (electrical metallic tubing) because it could be shaped with the standard bending tool however they always got quickly clogged,so it was back to compressed air.
 
Pretty difficult to suck shavings out of a hole <1". Typical dust collectors are designed for high volume/relatively low static pressure, so not good for small tubing. I use compressed air and a dust pickup nearby plus a PAPR.
 
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Use the compressed air cans for clearing out computer keyboards. I don't do hollow forms but use an ear syringe to blow out dust and shavings from turnings.
 
@Kirk Amidon , shop vac and DC have different strenths. I would keep the shop vacuum, but not necessarily the dust deputy.
I had a cone shaped crevice tool and mated it to a length of small diameter tubing (retired CPAP hose). I find this effective at clearing smaller spaces. Haven't tried it on an opening smaller than the hose, though. Got the idea here somewhere.
 
My turning is 90% hollow forms, all of them are dry wood. I use a Jet dust collector that I roll around to whatever machine I'm using at the moment.

I turned a plug that fits into the end of the 4" dust collector hose. I drilled a 5/8" hole through the center of the plug and then I glued the end of 5/8" OD clear flexible tubing into the hole. I stick the other end of the tubing into the opening of my hollow form and suck the dust and shavings out of the hollow form. The tubing is about 16" long. It works great with no problems, and the shop stays clean. Almost no dust in the air and no shavings on the floor. I've been using this setup for about three years now.

I have not tried this with green wood, I doubt it would work unless the tubing is a larger size. I also doubt it would work on a system that has dust collecting plumbing throughout the shop. This is not my idea, I borrowed the idea from my friend James Richardson.
 
If you use one hand as a deflector shield and have an air gun with a long tube on it in the other hand, you get far less of a mess than turning the outside. Don’t you get long curls everywhere around the lathe when doing the outside? I can’t imagine a dust collector having enough velocity to stir up the wet material stuck to the interior walls. Especially on a vessel a foot tall.
 
Made a lot of hf's over the years and tried every method mentioned here plus some others. I stopped using compressed air to blow dust around my shop many years ago. I turn mostly wet hf's, and years ago tried a shop vac to suck stuff out. Worked well, except all the wet shavings were not kind to the vac paper bags, and using the vac with just a foam filter created quite a mess in the vac canister, and when I did turn a dry hf, dust went everywhere. I also use the vac for cleaning up dust in general in the shop (do flatwork also) and all the switching of filters and cleaning the canister was a pita. I shelved the vac approach for a few years, using various rakes, spoons, etc to drag stuff out. Then 3-4 years ago I spotted one of these 5 gal bucket separator tops, called a Dustopper Pro. Clips on/off a std 5 gal bucket, and is only a couple of inches thick, not sticking way up like a dust deputy. Catches all the chips and most of the dust, and the dust that does pass is filtered by the vac bag. I use various sizes and lengths of PVC pipe, straight and bent, to go in the hf's, and turned collars out of wood to fit the vac hose and PVC pipes. My shop vac is a higher power/suction model with just a 5 gal rectangular canister, so the vac and 5 gal bucket don't take up much floor space.

Sure the pipes get plugged with curls sometimes. Just pull the pipe out, clear off the curls, go again. Can clear out the waste much faster than the rakes, etc. Even with wet wood, there is still dust that gets blown out and around the shop using compressed air - no thanks.

1769448475282.png
 
Oh, I forgot to mention another method.

A friend has his lathe next to an outside wall. He cut a bit hole and mounted a huge powerful fan behind the lathe blowing outwards. When he turns, sands, or blows out chips the fan blows everything out into the woods behind the shop!

I can't do this since on the other side of the wall behind my lathe is my shop office with computers and such. But if I did, there would go the heat and air conditioning! I'll keep my cyclone.
 
Well, for smaller forms, if you are a swimmer like me and have huge lung capacity, a 1/2 inch diameter pipe, make sure to inhale before you put your lips on the pipe, a good blow will push it all out. I do use this on some of my deeper boxes. I did see one turner who had a spoon they twisted, and they could insert that into the spinning form and scoop the shavings/chips out. I don't think you want to remove them from the chuck each time you need to clear the shavings, so the alternative is to unscrew your chuck and turn the form up side down and shake. Other than that, you need a compressor. You could move the dust collector outside, not too difficult to build a 4 by 4 shed on a slab and you wouldn't need a permit, at least not in most places. You may even be able to have a small compressor and your dust collector in the one room.

robo hippy
 
Richard Coers said:
If you use one hand as a deflector shield and have an air gun with a long tube on it in the other hand, you get far less of a mess than turning the outside
Click to expand...
I do this too. Drag the dust collector port near the hollow form opening and use one hand to try to direct stuff over there. Doesn't get everything but works to some degree for me. Is most helpful on dry end-grain pieces where the stuff inside is mostly dust.

For forms with larger openings, especially wet side-grain pieces that make shavings that just don't blow out, I have a 3/4 or 1" (I forget which) pipe duct-taped to an old shop vac attachment. The end of the pipe does clog with shavings, but I just peel them off.

IMG_8801.JPG

I also have a tool (I think it's some dental spatula thing) that I bent the end into a curve. Could easily make the same sort of thing from an old (thrift store) table knife. Just use it to drag shavings out - and/or unstick them from the walls of the form.
 
Dave Landers said:
I do this too. Drag the dust collector port near the hollow form opening and use one hand to try to direct stuff over there. Doesn't get everything but works to some degree for me. Is most helpful on dry end-grain pieces where the stuff inside is mostly dust.

For forms with larger openings, especially wet side-grain pieces that make shavings that just don't blow out, I have a 3/4 or 1" (I forget which) pipe duct-taped to an old shop vac attachment. The end of the pipe does clog with shavings, but I just peel them off.

View attachment 84526

I also have a tool (I think it's some dental spatula thing) that I bent the end into a curve. Could easily make the same sort of thing from an old (thrift store) table knife. Just use it to drag shavings out - and/or unstick them from the walls of the form.
Click to expand...
How about making something like a gas pump filler. Air pipe in the middle and a rubber sleeve to seal against the top of the hollow form to a shop vac? I bet I could make a million dollars with that idea!!!! I’d just need a to invent a dust collector to make dumping the shop vac dustless, and then a way to make cleaning that dustless, etc.....
 
Dust collectors just don't wptk all that well when choked down that much. You could try it and see what happens, but I suspect you'll be stuck with the vac and the DC.
 
Richard Coers said:
I’d just need a to invent a dust collector to make dumping the shop vac dustless, and then a way to make cleaning that dustless, etc.....
Click to expand...
No kidding. I poke my dust collector nozzle in the top of the trash can when I empty the shop vac. It does help, but all I've done is postponed the problem till it's time to empty the DC.... Maybe I should use the shop vac for that... :)
 
I'm no engineer/expert in the field (OK, any field) and I'd expect I'll be corrected if wrong, but I'm guessing that choking down a dust collector will have suction, but probably not enough airflow to keep debris moving all the way thru it. As the tubing gets larger, the flow may drop enough to deposit stuff inside the DC line somewhere. It's possible that it might clear itself when the restriction is removed, but I would also guess there's a possibility that some collected debris could stay, potentially accumulating more, potentially blocking things up.

Have you ever tried blowing in a short hose/tube or even a drinking straw? It can be very effective and there's not the risk of blowing up (literally) a fragile/thin piece.
 
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