Rikon 70-450.....anyone seen one of these in person?

[Odie]

http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/20...odfast-Variable-Speed-Lathe-Model-70-450.aspx

In the past I've heard of poor quality with Rikon Woodfast lathes, but this one looks like a winner with a great design. Looks like Rikon is expanding their lineup of lathes, so they must be doing something right. Off hand, I'd say the engineer who designed this is paying attention to what the needs of lathe turners are. If the quality is there, I might be persuaded to buy this lathe. Has anyone seen one of these? The price is right, about $3000 delivered.

I like the swivel head design.....will incrementally swivel outward to allow better access to bowl interiors from one side, while still utilizing the main banjo. I've always felt a fixed head long bed, such as the original Australian Woodfast 16" lathe I have, isn't a handicap at all. It allows leaning on the lathe for front side interior work, and you simply walk around to the back side for access to the most difficult interior wall cut......ok, enough of that! The swivel head design will allow access to exterior and interior from the same side of the lathe, and still allow me a greater stabilized cut while still leaning on the lathe.

I particularly like the design of the headstocks on the original Woodfast, Vicmarc, and Robust....there is great accessibility between the headstock and the back side of the turning. Looks like Rikon had this in mind when they designed this lathe, as well.....

Although I wouldn't be interested in it, it looks like the optional bowl banjo makes this lathe a very huge swing.....and, it would be a very big plus that you wouldn't have to change spindle direction!

My Australian Woodfast is 16" swing, and if just a little more capacity wasn't a plus for me......I'd never think of going with anything else for the rest of my life. In my opinion, and for my use, I think a 20" swing is the best overall size......of course, other's needs will vary with the types of turnings they wish to do.

One thing that seems like an advantage with a swivel headstock, over a sliding headstock, is you don't have to deal with tilt away gadgets, or removing the tailstock.

PS.....I saw the other thread. I could never consider a Stubby 750, or a PM 3520b because of the width of the headstock.....just won't work for me. I'm strictly a faceplate turner, and these lathes would limit accessibility between the headstock and the back side of the bowl.

I love the Robust American Beauty, but it's so expensive, and I'd rather have cast iron. The headstock design on the AB is perfect, though!

I also like the Vicmarc VL300, and if it had a swivel, or sliding head, I'd probably bite the bullet and get one.....

One thing I don't like about the DVRxp is the motor is part of the headstock.....separate is better. Do like the swivel headstock, though.

Could never consider a Oneway, since they don't offer 1 1/4x8tpi. Great looking lathes, though......and, I have a bunch of their great accessories.

ooc

 

[Odie]

I'm beginning to think this Rikon swivel headstock is a brand new offering, and nobody has seen one yet!

Here's a pdf manual, if anyone is interested in seeing it.......

http://hi.atgimg.com/pdf/6960/70450 woodfast wood lathe manual.pdf

The only thing that I saw that could have been better, is the indexing pin would have been in a better location if it had been put on the back side of the spindle. Not completely sure, but it still looks like it might be out of the way for sanding, but still.....back side would be better. I like the idea that there are positive stops for incrementally swiveling the headstock......

Anybody else see anything that could be a problem?

ooc

 

[Odie]

I also see there is a warning about using the index pin (or spindle lock, as Rikon calls it) and turning on the power. This is the way my Woodfast lathe is, as well as many other past and current production lathes.

I was impressed with the Robust AB lathe.....using the index pin disconnects the power......that is a huge improvement to any wood lathe, and Robust has solved the problem most of us have with forgetting this "small" detail......

ooc

 

[Odie]

No comments at all?

Interesting......I would have thought there would have been some comments from those who are dedicated/loyal to their own choices in lathes.

OK.....another enquiry: Does anyone here have experience with Rikon products at all? What is your experience with this company? Good customer service? Current production good/bad? Older production good/bad? I've heard, in the past, that the original Rikon Woodfast lathe was substandard, but I never really heard in what way. So, what about the older Rikon lathe? What was wrong with it? How about the bandsaw? Any other equipment by Rikon worth commenting on? Good or bad.

Other than those things I've already mentioned, the only thing I can comment on, is Rikon is made in China. That, in itself, wouldn't stop me from purchasing a lathe.....if what I wanted wasn't available from a domestic manufacturer. I'll have to tell you though......I like the concept behind this Rikon 70-450, the engineering. To me, this particular lathe is the most adapted to my needs/wants of any of the current production lathes. I hope some of the other lathe manufacturers take note of this design.

Thanks.

ooc

 

[hockenbery]

Haven't seen one in person.

 

[Bill Weaver]

Odie
I have the mini Rikon and I like all it's features. Just viewed the PDF on model you spoke of and I see it is very similar to the Craftsman Professional I have had for several years and like the feature of head swivel. Mine has a positive pin and hole it locks in to both in swing out and in natural position, plus a locking handle. Both lathes use a 1x8 spindle thread.

 

[Donna Banfield]

Oldie, can't offer any comment about the Rikon lathes, but I have a Rikon bandsaw. 22", serial number 4. I have put it through some pretty demanding cutting; wet bowl blanks that are so large they barely fit on the table. The only thing I don't like is that is goes through bearings. The saw is a little over 3 years old, and I've replaced both sets of bearings (upper and lower).

 

[Odie]

Odie
I have the mini Rikon and I like all it's features. Just viewed the PDF on model you spoke of and I see it is very similar to the Craftsman Professional I have had for several years and like the feature of head swivel. Mine has a positive pin and hole it locks in to both in swing out and in natural position, plus a locking handle. Both lathes use a 1x8 spindle thread.

Hi Bill......

Yep, the Rikon is probably more comparable to the Teknatool Nova DVRxp.....a little more heavy duty than the Craftsman. You could call it a 20" hybrid incorporating the swivel head of the DVRxp, the cast iron bed and tooling from the original Woodfast, and the position-able control box from the Robust AB......something like that!

One thing I do like about my original Australian Woodfast, the Vicmarc VL300, Powermatic, Rikon, etc., is cast iron. Cast iron is the choice of precision industrial equipment, because it maintains it's shape with age and temperature. This is why we see non-cast iron lathes with lots of support braces, such as the Robust, and even things like those big tubes we see on the Oneway. These things are an attempt to overcome the tendency of steel to flex with weather, temperature, and such. I'm not saying all these extreme measures don't work to control flexing, but I'm just more comfortable with cast iron for it's inherent longevity and trustworthiness.

Oldie, can't offer any comment about the Rikon lathes, but I have a Rikon bandsaw. 22", serial number 4. I have put it through some pretty demanding cutting; wet bowl blanks that are so large they barely fit on the table. The only thing I don't like is that is goes through bearings. The saw is a little over 3 years old, and I've replaced both sets of bearings (upper and lower).

Hello Donna......When you replaced the bearings on your Rikon bandsaw, did you get replacements from an industrial supply......or, from Rikon? If they were substandard bearings from the git-go, then making sure you replaced them with quality bearings would be a way to see if bad bearings installed at the factory could be the problem. If a good set of bearings are wearing out prematurely, then possibly something about the design of the bandsaw is causing the bearings to fail.....or even over tension could do it, too........????? You did mention that you put a lot of stress on those bearings, because of the kind of sawing you require. Is it possible that could be a contributing factor?

ooc

 

[Hu Lowery]

Swivel heads are evil!

Odie,

The design of that lathe stinks best I can read the exploded view in the manual. First off, there is a mounting plate between the headstock and the bed, looks like far from a massive one. Second off, it looks like the headstock only positively locks in two positions in it's swivel, in line with the tailstock and facing ninety degrees forward. Very real danger of creep or movement when there isn't any kind of positive locking device at the ten or fifteen degree angle it is nice to move the head to when hollowing. If you plan to take advantage of the swiveling feature you will need to buy the outboard set-up and plan to swivel ninety degrees only. This can be remedied by machining a new lock plate, probably need one to hold the headstock straight and true without excessive runout anyway. There is far from a positive lock between the headstock and bed allowing the head to oscillate when starting to rough an out of balance load. A small camlock rod isn't adequate.

Based on my year long study of all that is flawed with my swivel head lathe, this one has most of the same flaws. Someone that stays well away from the limits of the lathe might be happy with it. Someone planning to push the recommended limits as it seems you plan to, isn't likely to be happy at all with this lathe in my opinion. The engineering bites on it, again in my opinion, and as I have said until I'm starting to sound like a broken record, the metals in my beautiful jet lathe were garbage. The last I knew pretty much every large casting in China came out of the same government owned facility. That is why all of the metal lathes are basically the same after you strip the bells and whistles off of them, they all start out with the same castings and then are finished and trimmed out to suit the manufacturer.

The design of the lathe looks marginal made out of top quality materials. Less than top quality materials, . . .
I'll bet you a dollar against a hole in a donut that you can turn bigger pieces on your current lathe than you can on this "bigger" lathe. Everything about this lathe screams light duty and you are wanting it to exceed the 16" capabilities of your current lathe. Ain't gonna happen in my opinion.

I have been less than complimentary concerning this lathe so to be fair I should point out an advantage. Per the manual, you only need a Phillips head screw driver and crescent wrench to assemble it.

To be genuinely fair, I will never own another swivel head lathe with anything resembling the design of this craftsman. Most everything important about the Rikon other than the drive closely resembles the craftsman so I do have a real bias against the design of the lathe. It is an earned bias though, not one I had against the design when I purchased my lathe.

Hu

 

[Odie]

Odie,

The design of that lathe stinks best I can read the exploded view in the manual. First off, there is a mounting plate between the headstock and the bed, looks like far from a massive one. Second off, it looks like the headstock only positively locks in two positions in it's swivel, in line with the tailstock and facing ninety degrees forward. Very real danger of creep or movement when there isn't any kind of positive locking device at the ten or fifteen degree angle it is nice to move the head to when hollowing. If you plan to take advantage of the swiveling feature you will need to buy the outboard set-up and plan to swivel ninety degrees only. This can be remedied by machining a new lock plate, probably need one to hold the headstock straight and true without excessive runout anyway. There is far from a positive lock between the headstock and bed allowing the head to oscillate when starting to rough an out of balance load. A small camlock rod isn't adequate.

Based on my year long study of all that is flawed with my swivel head lathe, this one has most of the same flaws. Someone that stays well away from the limits of the lathe might be happy with it. Someone planning to push the recommended limits as it seems you plan to, isn't likely to be happy at all with this lathe in my opinion. The engineering bites on it, again in my opinion, and as I have said until I'm starting to sound like a broken record, the metals in my beautiful jet lathe were garbage. The last I knew pretty much every large casting in China came out of the same government owned facility. That is why all of the metal lathes are basically the same after you strip the bells and whistles off of them, they all start out with the same castings and then are finished and trimmed out to suit the manufacturer.

The design of the lathe looks marginal made out of top quality materials. Less than top quality materials, . . .
I'll bet you a dollar against a hole in a donut that you can turn bigger pieces on your current lathe than you can on this "bigger" lathe. Everything about this lathe screams light duty and you are wanting it to exceed the 16" capabilities of your current lathe. Ain't gonna happen in my opinion.

I have been less than complimentary concerning this lathe so to be fair I should point out an advantage. Per the manual, you only need a Phillips head screw driver and crescent wrench to assemble it.

To be genuinely fair, I will never own another swivel head lathe with anything resembling the design of this craftsman. Most everything important about the Rikon other than the drive closely resembles the craftsman so I do have a real bias against the design of the lathe. It is an earned bias though, not one I had against the design when I purchased my lathe.

Hu

Thanks for your opinion, Hu........

As you said yourself, you are biased against a swivel head based on the experiences you had with a Craftsman lathe.....and, it shows! Since it's foolishness to think that no lathe can possibly hold solid under the out-of-balance conditions you base your opinions on, your emotions are more than likely to be guiding your response. I wonder if the Nova DVRxp owners share your opinion......? At this point, I've not heard that they do, but I'm listening. If you are right that there is no such thing as a swivel head lathe that won't oscillate with an out-of-balance workpiece on everything but 90° and 0°, I'm sure we'll be hearing of it. I guess it all would depend on how good the pin and hole fit were, and the ability of the locking device to hold solid......and, these things are something you are assuming can't hold at all, considering experience with another lathe entirely......

It appears the basic concept of a swivel headstock, and the quality of the metal used in castings, are your main emphasis. OK, tell us about your opinions concerning the metal used in the castings in everything made in China. What about the quality of the metal? What is it that makes the metal unsuitable for use in lathe construction? I probably don't need to remind you that some very high-end machinery is now made in China. I can remember a time when we used to bad-mouth Japanese products, but now some of the best engineered and manufactured things are made in Japan......so, if you are basing your opinions on Chinese equipment that was made sometime in the distant past......maybe you should think again about the Chinese being able to improve their industrial quality and capacity. I don't think the Chinese are stagnating in their attempts to continually improve.

Obviously, I have some skepticism of the validity of your opinions. Who knows, you could be right as rain, but I'm not going to base my beliefs on your opinion, specifically because here, and in the past, you've given us reasons to be skeptical. If you are right, then those who will eventually purchase this lathe, and those who have the Nova DVRxp are bound to express an opinion, given a little time.......and time is what I have, since I have no intention of replacing my Woodfast lathe without more information based on experiences, rather than beliefs.

ooc

 

[Hu Lowery]

Good Luck!

Odie,

Your reply indicated you didn't grasp much of what I said addressing design concerns. The general design of a swivel head lathe has more issues to be dealt with than other designs. Those issues weren't addressed adequately in the craftsman or the rikon either judging by the exploded view. I spent about an hour studying the design of the rikon for you, I have no intention of studying the Nova and every other swivel head lathe to see if they have the same flaws. It is very possible to build a functional swivel head lathe, just not likely to happen trying to build it for minimum costs. You read a lot into my post that I didn't write. My mill was a piece of precision equipment that had three pivot points between the base and spindle. Settings on the mill were accurate, stable, and repeatable. No reason other than costs that a lathe couldn't be equally well made with a swivel head.

I do sincerely wish you luck if you decide to move ahead with a purchase of one of these units. Perhaps I am wrong. If not it would be fun to try to make the rikon into an adequate unit to turn large pieces on somebody else's dime. I do miss working in R&D sometimes. I had a lot of fun designing equipment and repurposing parts of other equipment to make it functional for our uses.

Hu

 

[Odie]

Odie,

Your reply indicated you didn't grasp much of what I said addressing design concerns. The general design of a swivel head lathe has more issues to be dealt with than other designs. Those issues weren't addressed adequately in the craftsman or the rikon either judging by the exploded view. I spent about an hour studying the design of the rikon for you, I have no intention of studying the Nova and every other swivel head lathe to see if they have the same flaws. It is very possible to build a functional swivel head lathe, just not likely to happen trying to build it for minimum costs. You read a lot into my post that I didn't write. My mill was a piece of precision equipment that had three pivot points between the base and spindle. Settings on the mill were accurate, stable, and repeatable. No reason other than costs that a lathe couldn't be equally well made with a swivel head.

I do sincerely wish you luck if you decide to move ahead with a purchase of one of these units. Perhaps I am wrong. If not it would be fun to try to make the rikon into an adequate unit to turn large pieces on somebody else's dime. I do miss working in R&D sometimes. I had a lot of fun designing equipment and repurposing parts of other equipment to make it functional for our uses.

Hu

OK, Hu.......thanks for your opinion.

If you are correct, we'll find out. If not, we'll find out that, too. In either case, it won't be by my input......I guess you didn't read all of my post!

ooc

 

[Rob Wallace]

A sliding-headstock is a no-brainer - I would avoid "the swivel"....

A few points to consider:

1. If a 20" lathe is what you want, one with a fairly long-term well-proven positive record is the Powermatic 3520 - I personally don't see anything wrong with the design of the headstock - I have turned on these lathes for years during demonstrations, and for thousands of turners this is the lathe of choice in that size range. It is one of the best 'bangs for the buck' in my opinion.

2. Given the current new lathe designs, I would not advise anyone to buy a fixed headstock long bed lathe if the primary function of the lathe is for bowl/vessel turning. The versatility of sliding headstock lathes is obvious, and the benefits of this lathe design become very useful when you need to adapt one's turning activities to a wide range of situations. Given that the sliding headstock readily converts from a long bed lathe to a short bed ("bowl") lathe, the ergonomic advantages are HUGE compared to a fixed-headstock, long bed lathe where the turner is forced to 'assume the position' and do the 'over-the-bed lean' for hollowing and other operations. For me this design consideration alone is a no-brainer.....

3. I agree with Hu that swivel head lathes are (at best) a compromise design and are "trouble" - regardless of manufacturer; I would not like to spend my money on compromises.... From my observations and hands-on use, the swivel head lathe is a fundamentally poor design, and is a result of manufacturers trying to improve the ergonomics of fixed-headstock lathes to allow better accessibility for hollowing, etc. (a laudable goal). In contrast, the sliding headstock lathe has successfully accomplished the same goal without all of the inherent negatives associated with swivel head lathes (alignment, vibration, accessory tool rest adaptations, etc.). I have owned a few fixed head (full size) lathes, including one swivel head lathe, and have turned on a variety of them over the years. It is completely clear to me that the swivel head design will work, but, as a compromise design, has problems associated with it that I personally don't want to deal with. I have advised (and will continue to advise) newcomers to woodturning to stay away from swivel head lathes almost as aggressively as I advise them to stay away from used "tube" lathes! Sorry, but that's based on my experience.

4. If you are looking for a 20" lathe, then your options are a bit fewer than for 16" lathes, but there are still some great machines out there. I now own a Robust American Beauty, and frankly the points raised about cast iron and stability are, for me, non issues. This lathe is heavy, rock solid, easily adjustable for height and level while maintaining stability, and in the 1.5 years I've been turning on it, the American Beauty has never presented any problems; nor have I ever heard ANY comments about lathe bed metal movement in this lathe, or, for that matter, in Oneway lathes either. While I agree cast iron is a good quality to have in stationary tools in general, it is by no means a requirement. I also have kept my Jet 1642 lathe (cast iron) because it is another very versatile, sliding headstock lathe that provides me a bit more between-centers capacity for turning longer spindles when required. (I also have Jet 1220 and Jet 1014 'Mini' lathes that I use for travel/demonstrations and turning small items, and while these are "fixed headstock" lathes, they are, by default, short bed lathes which have all the advantages of a sliding headstock, (at a reduced swing capacity) without the "issues" that a swivel head lathe brings. The "bowl" lathes like the Vega, VB-36, or the old Union Graduate lathe, also fit in this short-bed category, and maintain the goal of providing good overall ergonomics for the turner as s/he interfaces with the lathe while turning.

Prior to buying my Robust AB lathe, I did a fairly analytical review of the higher capacity (20" +) lathes available on the market, and came to the conclusion that the most versatile design was a sliding headstock lathe. The other evaluation criteria were based on the primary in-use features like adjustability, fixed-position holding, and smoothness of moving the banjo and tailstock, form and finish of the lathe bed, speed and reversability controls, and other user-friendly aspects/features (i.e. remote start/stop/speed control, motor horsepower options, vacuum chucking ability, etc. BTW ...the tailstock tilt-away feature is outstanding!). As with any tool purchase, it is a matter of personal decision-making, what will work best for you, and what you can afford to spend. You now have my opinions (which is what you asked for) that are based on using a fairly wide range of lathe styles over the years, and what I have found to be the best features to include in the deliberations of different lathe designs before one drops their cash for a potential long-term investment.

Good luck!

Rob

 

[Bill Blasic]

Well I can't agree with all that Rob has said as Cast Iron is so much different than steel and for me cast iron is what I like. Forty + years using cast iron machinery and then using steel is like night and day for me. Obviously folks like steel bed lathes but I'm not one of them and I am not saying they are not good just my preference. As far as the DVR and it's swivel head go I know folks who love it and use it. I have the outboard unit on my DVR but have never used it with the swivel, never needed to. As far as that goes I've never used the sliding head feature of my Powermatic and Jet lathes. All I would tell anybody is that they should find the lathe they are looking at and try it and make sure that you try some other brands.
Bill

 

[Odie]

Many thanks to Rob and Bill for additional opinions........

First, let me state that I don't know if the Rikon swivel head lathe will stand up to the stresses expected of it, or not. My hopes were to find someone who has seen one, used one, or better yet, owns one. Someone who can give some opinions based on more than speculation considering other smaller lathes of it's type, or looking at a schematic.

Rob, I do think your analysis does hold true for many turners, and very likely the majority of turners, but somewhat "tunnel vision" when taking into consideration my specific needs as a turner. In examining my needs, I find that leaning on the lathe allows me to get the best cut. You are obviously not alone in your beliefs that eliminating any bedways from your standing position is the best solution.....and, for some, it is. For me, it isn't. A refined finishing cut is what we all strive for, and there are many ways to reach that goal. Some do it in ways that the majority of accepted thought doesn't allow!

To my thinking, a swivel head would be a great advantage, in that it does allow me an "incremental" swing of the headstock to the best advantage, considering my desire to use the bedways as a steadying point for my body. On the other hand, I'm not totally opposed to a sliding headstock either, because I still may be able to position the length of the bedways extension from the spindle to take advantage of my needs. It does seem like angling the bedways away from the axial direction of the spindle would probably be best for me......but, I don't know the answers, only can make guesses based on my personal experiences.

I did rule out the Powermatic 3520b, not because it has a sliding headstock, but because the headstock width. Again, understand that my needs are not the same as the majority of turners, specifically because I'm a faceplate turner. Since a faceplate extends the bowl out a lesser distance from the spindle, than a chuck would, the available space becomes a critical factor. I need as much room as I can get, both for lathe tools and power sanding. The Powermatic, for my turning style is not a good choice......and that's a no-brainer!

I've been doing my bowl turning on a fixed head long bed lathe for so long now, that I've discovered things that most turners will never understand, without going through the same process as I have. It might be an advantage for some, as I've found it is for me.....and probably for most, they wouldn't agree with that at all. I have very little problems with turning bowls on my Australian Woodfast long bed lathe, and feel there are certain advantages that most won't discover because they will naturally follow the herd!.....and, the herd doesn't agree with me. My only response to them is.......results are the ONLY thing that matters! What I can't do from one side of my lathe is easily done by merely walking to the other side, and doing it there!.....and this walking to the other side is the only reason why I feel I might like to have a swivel, or sliding headstock. Not that much of a problem, but if I did buy another lathe, I'd be interested first in a swivel head (if I felt I could trust it), or a sliding head.

If it were not for my desire to increase the capacity of my lathe from 16" to 20", I wouldn't be participating in this thread at all!

=================================

Bill, you and I are in agreement about the cast iron. Still, much of the high end precision machinery still uses cast iron.....and, they do it because of the flexing issues I described earlier......basically inherent stability is the reason for it. Cast iron is more expensive, because you either invest in the equipment to do the castings, or pay someone to do it for you. There is much less investment in equipment to weld steel together, and is subsequently why that choice is made. I also place my trust in cast iron.......

ooc

 

[hockenbery]

A few points to consider: . 2. Given the current new lathe designs, I would not advise anyone to buy a fixed headstock long bed lathe if the primary function of the lathe is for bowl/vessel turning. The versatility of sliding headstock lathes is obvious, and the benefits of this lathe design become very useful when you need to adapt one's turning activities to a wide range of situations. Given that the sliding headstock readily converts from a long bed lathe to a short bed ("bowl") lathe, the ergonomic advantages are HUGE compared to a fixed-headstock, long bed lathe where the turner is forced to 'assume the position' and do the 'over-the-bed lean' for hollowing and other operations. For me this design consideration alone is a no-brainer..... Good luck! Rob

Rob,
I agree with you ergonomic outlook. I disagree that you need a sliding headstock to get it.

A large ONEWAY with a 17" bed on the outboard gives you the same ergonomics. Maybe better as there are no legs in your way.

The short bed side is always there ready to go. No bending over to push the headstock .

Just walk 2 feet. Move the controls and Switch to reverse.

Another way to skin the same cat.

Al

 

[Bart Leetch]

Rob,
I agree with you ergonomic outlook. I disagree that you need a sliding headstock to get it.

A large ONEWAY with a 17" bed on the outboard gives you the same ergonomics. Maybe better as there are no legs in your way.

The short bed side is always there ready to go. No bending over to push the headstock .

Just walk 2 feet. Move the controls and Switch to reverse.

Another way to skin the same cat.

Al

Hockenbery

Doesn't the Oneway Lathe configured this way run about $10,000 & the Powermatic 3520B $3999.99 In this case I can give you $6000.02 reasons not to buy Oneway unless your using it for commercial turning. Even the Robust AB long bed is about $2000 less expensive.

"No bending over to push the headstock ".

You must be awfully tall.

Don't most people try to have the spindle at elbow height?

 

[hockenbery]

Hockenbery Doesn't the Oneway Lathe configured this way run about $10,000 & the Powermatic 3520B $3999.99 In this case I can give you $6000.02 reasons not to buy Oneway unless your using it for commercial turning. Even the Robust AB long bed is about $2000 less expensive. "No bending over to push the headstock ". You must be awfully tall. Don't most people try to have the spindle at elbow height?

No. You might be thinking of the big outboard and all it bells and whistles.

ONEWAY : A standard 2436 about $5900, 17" outboard about $300, second banjo about 300. 24" swing 36" between centers
Robust : a standard AB About $6600. 25" swing 28" between centers

Just about the same price.

I am a big fan of the Robust lathes excellent machines
I am a big fan of the Oneway lathes excellent machines.

If you push on the top of the sliding headstocks close to spindle height they tend not to slide easily and sometimes bind.
Pushing close to the ways slides them easily.

You are right about the high costs of all the machines
I would recommend a Oneway, Robust, or Powermatic only to serious turners.

Al

 

[Mike Brazeau]

If you take resale into consideration, any of the Oneway, Robust or Powermatic easily move into the realm of the hobby turner. I have had my 2436 ten years and could easily sell it for 2/3 of what I paid for it. Works out to about a dollar a day to turn on a great lathe. I am leary of any lathe that doesn't use a readily available Off the shelf VFD.

 

[dbonertz]

Or you can get a vicmarc VL300 - 3hp - shortbed cast iron for $4995 from Craft supplies. Add a 19" bed extender to put on the out board side of the head stock for $380. Then add a swing away, if you feel the need, for $600 (also can be used as tail end bed extender) and a second banjo $325. A total of $6300 and have one nice sweet easy to use set up without having to move/slide head stocks. Very solid with no worries and still less money than the rest. They now come with remote for any location and digital speed readout which I don't need nor do I think I would ever use. And besides they are a very pretty blue.

 

[hockenbery]

digital speed readout which I don't need nor do I think I would ever use. )

Digital read outs are great is someone asks you: at what speed you are turning?

Speaking of Vicmarcs,
Is anyone in the US selling the Vicmarc Vl 600 ? That lathe appears to be a beast and a half.

 

[dbonertz]

I haven't seen anyone selling the vl600 anywhere. It is a beast. Much more lathe than I think I'll ever need. You have my permission to come over and slap me if I ever think I need a lathe like that.

Since I don't have many in my shop when turning I don't anticipate getting asked what speed. I demo so little that to is not a big deal for me. Also I get to know my lathe and can tell about what speed I am turning. I know what range I am in and the dial lets me know from there. For me I turn at slower safe speeds and don't really care if that is 400 or 600 or 800 or etc. It depends more on how my cut is accomplishing the job for the task at hand. One of those bells and whistles that certainly doesn't do any harm but in my mind not necessary. I suppose if I had it I may use it more than I think I would, kind of like my smart phone.

 

[Sergio Villa]

http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/20...n the head is swiveled if so desired. Regards

 

[Odie]

Odie, Vicmarc has a new lathe out: 20 inch swing, swiveling headstock, 2HP (I believe) and is a big brother of the VL175, a very good lathe.
I believe that you can get more informations, if interested, calling Christian at Woodworkers Emporium.
By the way, the Vicmarc outboard attachment is very heavy duty, I just bought one, and can be used with the VL 175 and VL240 when the head is swiveled if so desired.
Regards

Thanks Sergio.......I'll be checking on it.......off to work for now!

ooc

 

[Sergio Villa]

Odie, check this out
https://www.facebook.com/glennlucaswoodturning

 

[Odie]

Odie, check this out
https://www.facebook.com/glennlucaswoodturning

Thanks for the heads up, Sergio......

That Vicmarc VL240 does look interesting. In the photo from Glen Lucas, the VL240 doesn't look like the head swivels......or does it? Doesn't seem like it could with the motor mounted low like that.......

You know, I would probably bite the bullet and get the VL300 if it had either a sliding head, or swivel head.....even if the capacity of 24" is larger than I think I'll ever use......

Looking forward to see a Vicmarc swivel head lathe......I've got lots of time, because my old Aussie Woodfast lathe does everything I need it to do.......but, would like at least 20" swing and a swivel/sliding head would be a plus.

thanks

ooc

 

[Sergio Villa]

Thanks for the heads up, Sergio......

That Vicmarc VL240 does look interesting. In the photo from Glen Lucas, the VL240 doesn't look like the head swivels......or does it? Doesn't seem like it could with the motor mounted low like that.......

ooc

Odie is is a link for the manual for the Vicmarc lathes. The 175 and 240 have a swiveling head. If I'm not wrong the motor swivels with the head.
http://www.vicmarc.com/downloads/Lathe Owners Manual Dec 2013.pdf
I' m not sure why you need a VL 300 with the swiveling or movable head. The new model, that now come in two or three HP, has the possibility of attaching a 19 inch extension on the outboards side so that you can turn outboard without any obstacle. I do not have this feature and I' m starting to miss it a little although the outboard attachment I just got works very well and, by the way, can be used by the 175 and 240.
Here is the Vicmarc sites where you can see the two new VL300
http://www.vicmarc.com/default.asp?contentID=536
http://www.vicmarc.com/default.asp?contentID=741
Regards

 

[Odie]

Odie is is a link for the manual for the Vicmarc lathes. The 175 and 240 have a swiveling head. If I'm not wrong the motor swivels with the head.
http://www.vicmarc.com/downloads/Lathe Owners Manual Dec 2013.pdf
I' m not sure why you need a VL 300 with the swiveling or movable head. The new model, that now come in two or three HP, has the possibility of attaching a 19 inch extension on the outboards side so that you can turn outboard without any obstacle. I do not have this feature and I' m starting to miss it a little although the outboard attachment I just got works very well and, by the way, can be used by the 175 and 240.
Here is the Vicmarc sites where you can see the two new VL300
http://www.vicmarc.com/default.asp?contentID=536
http://www.vicmarc.com/default.asp?contentID=741
Regards

Yep, you are absolutely right, Sergio. The VL240 is a swivel headstock. Pages 17-18 in the manual show this clearly. I didn't see the spindle thread size, but assume 1 1/4x8tpi is available. That and #2MT, 1" tool post, all are necessary for me to be interested. I see the manual lists the tool post size as 30mm, which is 1.18". It certainly looks like a great lathe. Thanks for enlightening me. I hope someone decides to import this lathe with accommodations for accessories we are using here in the USA.

I wouldn't be opposed to a sliding headstock, but to my current thinking, I'd rather have a swivel headstock. The Rikon isn't out of the question either, but I'd certainly have to have some assurance that the design there is adequate for the loads it will be expected to handle. I don't want to be the Ginny pig, but I'm certain that if Woodcraft is carrying it, we'll be hearing about whether or not they are up to the task in a short amount of time. One thing the Rikon has going for it, is 1 1/4"x8tpi spindle threads, #2MT, 1" tool post.....so, all of my current lathe accessories would fit.

The VL240 has a 19.29" swing, and still don't see where the spindle thread size is listed.



ooc

 

[Bart Leetch]

Yep, you are absolutely right, Sergio. The VL240 is a swivel headstock. Pages 17-18 in the manual show this clearly. I didn't see the spindle thread size, but assume 1 1/4x8tpi is available. That and #2MT, 1" tool post, all are necessary for me to be interested. I see the manual lists the tool post size as 30mm, which is 1.18". It certainly looks like a great lathe. Thanks for enlightening me. I hope someone decides to import this lathe with accommodations for accessories we are using here in the USA.

I wouldn't be opposed to a sliding headstock, but to my current thinking, I'd rather have a swivel headstock. The Rikon isn't out of the question either, but I'd certainly have to have some assurance that the design there is adequate for the loads it will be expected to handle. I don't want to be the Ginny pig, but I'm certain that if Woodcraft is carrying it, we'll be hearing about whether or not they are up to the task in a short amount of time. One thing the Rikon has going for it, is 1 1/4"x8tpi spindle threads, #2MT, 1" tool post.....so, all of my current lathe accessories would fit.

The VL240 has a 19.29" swing, and still don't see where the spindle thread size is listed.

ooc

Odie

On page 17 it saays this.



www.vicmarc.com

Lathe Models 175, 200,240 and 300 are equipped with the
same headstock spindle, tail-stock spindle, hand-wheels,
handbrake wheels and bearings. Therefore all adjustments
and assembly methods on the headstock and the tail-stock
on those models are the same. The cam-lock assemblies are
of the same system but different sizes.

We already know the Vicmarc 300 has a 1 1/4" x 8 TPI spindle.

 

[Odie]

Odie

On page 17 it saays this.



www.vicmarc.com

Lathe Models 175, 200,240 and 300 are equipped with the
same headstock spindle, tail-stock spindle, hand-wheels,
handbrake wheels and bearings. Therefore all adjustments
and assembly methods on the headstock and the tail-stock
on those models are the same. The cam-lock assemblies are
of the same system but different sizes.

We already know the Vicmarc 300 has a 1 1/4" x 8 TPI spindle.

Hello Bart......

We do know that the VL300 lathe that CSUSA sells is imported under a license, contract, or agreement of some sort. It is classified as the "CS series". I'm not sure what that means to the specifications, but it probably means that there are aspects to it that aren't available with the standard models available on the international market. I suspect the spindle has metric threads, more common with that market.

I'd like to see the VL240 lathe imported for domestic sales, but it will probably take a minimum quantity purchase for someone to import them with common specifications to this market......

ooc

 

[Sergio Villa]

Odie, you can ask all the information you need be email to Vicmarc itself or to Christian at Woodworkers Emporium that imports the unmodified Vicmarc lathes.
I have an Australian VL300 and thread is 11/4x8, the post is 30 mm but you can get a bushing that reduces it to 1 inch. I use three 1inch Robust posts without any problem.
Regards

 

[Odie]

Odie, you can ask all the information you need be email to Vicmarc itself or to Christian at Woodworkers Emporium that imports the unmodified Vicmarc lathes.
I have an Australian VL300 and thread is 11/4x8, the post is 30 mm but you can get a bushing that reduces it to 1 inch. I use three 1inch Robust posts without any problem.
Regards

Thanks Sergio......

I sent the following email to Vicmarc.......we'll see what happens!

Hello......

I'm interested in getting any available information you can send me regarding the new VL240 swivel head lathe. I downloaded your manual for it.

Is this VL240 lathe available in 1 1/4"x8tpi spindle thread?

Can it be purchased to use 1" tool rest posts?

I'd be interested to purchase this lathe, if I can use the equipment I already own and use on the Australian Woodfast lathe I purchased 22 years ago.....

Is there any current dealers in the USA, where this lathe can be seen?

Thank you sincerely,

ooc

 

[Bill Boehme]

Late to the party, but a few thoughts ...

I was impressed with the Robust AB lathe.....using the index pin disconnects the power......that is a huge improvement to any wood lathe, and Robust has solved the problem most of us have with forgetting this "small" detail......

ooc

The Robust has both an index pin and a spindle lock. The spindle lock has a switch to prevent the lathe from powering the motor, but the index pin does not or not on my model which isn't the current design. It would take some complicated design to put a lockout in the tight space wheree the index pin is located. Brent's reason for not having a lockout tthere, if I remember correctly is that doing indexing work with a router or carving tools requires a set of deliberate actions that should be sufficient to remind the user that the spindle is locked. If the user is very absent minded and starts up the lathe, the worst that will happen is that the belt will squeal loud enough to get the users attention and make him/her more alert in the future. So far, I have not squealed the belt. I use the spindle lock (which does have a lockout) every time that I remove a chuck or faceplate.

I have used cast iron lathes a lot more years than welded steel body lathes and I don't see any difference between the two types. The Robust is actually a hybrid -- the headstock and tailstock are cast iron (made in USA) while the chassis is welded steel construction -- very heavy steel, I might add, half inch thick. The legs and aprons are quarter inch thick.

I'm off to Empty Bowls so I'll see you later.

 

[Donna Banfield]

"Hello Donna......When you replaced the bearings on your Rikon bandsaw, did you get replacements from an industrial supply......or, from Rikon? If they were substandard bearings from the git-go, then making sure you replaced them with quality bearings would be a way to see if bad bearings installed at the factory could be the problem. If a good set of bearings are wearing out prematurely, then possibly something about the design of the bandsaw is causing the bearings to fail.....or even over tension could do it, too........????? You did mention that you put a lot of stress on those bearings, because of the kind of sawing you require. Is it possible that could be a contributing factor?"

Sorry for the delay in reply Odie. Out of town with limited access to the internet. Yes, I have no doubt I was putting stress on the blade/bearings with the type of cutting. I was pushing the limits to see what the saw could do. Replacement bearings were purchased from a supply house, and seem to be working fine. But then I'm also not trying to push the limits anymore, either.

 

[Bart Leetch]

Here you go Odie

http://www.artistryinwood.info/?p=291

 

[Odie]

http://www.artistryinwood.info/?p=291

Hey, thank you very much, Bart!

So far, that Rikon sounds pretty good, but I don't know to what extent this reviewer has tested the lock up of the headstock. Overall, the Rikon seems to have a perfect design......well, from my point of view, anyway!

The Rikon isn't deleted from my short list.......but, who knows, I may take years to come to the conclusion that it's time to get rid of my Australian Woodfast......it's such a great lathe with very few drawbacks.

ooc

Sergio......I tried to call Christian at Woodworker's Emporium, and he's not there today. Anyway, I doubt that he has any more information that we don't already know......

 

[Bill Boehme]

Rotating headstocks

My Delta 1440 lathe has a rotating headstock that uses a large spring-loaded ball bearing that goes into a hole in the bottom of the headstock. I imagine that other lathes with rotating headstocks work in a similar fashion. The GOOD: it is quick and easy to move the headstock. The BAD: it is inherently not very accurate or repeatable. If the hole is large, it is more accurate, but the ball can get stuck in a hole. If the hole is small the ball won't get stuck, but positioning is not as repeatable. The WORST: even sliding the headstock can result in the rotation angle shifting slightly. The RESULT: I left the headstock parked in one spot so it was, in effect, a fixed headstock lathe.

 

[hockenbery]

I would like to point out here that :

Oneway , Walter Meier ( Powermatic, jet), Robust, and Wood Workers Emporium (Vicmarc)

Are all providing lathes for the AAW symposium in Phoenix this June.

If you are coming to the symposium this is an excellent place to see:
these lathes in use by the demonstrators
them in the trade show
the owners of the respective companies.

Talk to the owners, talk to the demonstrators, watch how the lathes perform.

Also if you have machine in mind. ONEWAY, Robust , and Woodworkers Emporium will take orders.
You might even save some money

I took delivery of a lathe in Richmond and saved $700 in shipping.

Al

 

[Gary Barone]

1.5 hp motor its to small

 

[Sergio Villa]

1.5 hp motor its to small

What are you referring to?