Safe to make wood lathe chisels out of metal lathe tool steel?

[Brian Kopp]

Hi folks,
Is it “safe” to make a bedan style lathe chisel out of a piece of 3/8” metal lathe tool steel?

I picked up multiple metal lathe cutting tools with an antique Barnes 4 1/2 velocipede (pedal powered) metal lathe I brought home last week to use as a foot powered wood lathe. It included a wooden box full of original Barnes accessories as well as metal lathe tools, both old ones as well as more modern appearing ones.

I inserted one of them into 1/2” square steel tube as it was too short otherwise. I intend to insert that into an ash handle I’m turning on the lathe to make a cheap version of a 3/8” bedan type chisel. I already roughed out this 2” square piece of ash with this makeshift bedan and it’s a real hogging machine, even without a handle. So it certainly seems effective.

I noticed as I was tapping the metal lathe tool into the 1/2” square steel tube with a hammer, the tip cracked off very easily, as if it was very hard but also fairly brittle. Probably a dumb mistake, I admit.

I subsequently ground a bedan type grind on it. I had previously modified an extra 1/4” thick parting tool into a bedan style grind and find it to be a very handy and effective tool.

I’m assuming that the brittle nature of the metal lathe tool steel won’t be a problem while using it as a bedan style lathe chisel?

 

[Isaac Fisher]

I would be more worried about the strength of the square tube section.

 

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Not all steel is alike, but I have and use some metal turning steel pieces in a 1" square bar for deep hollowing.

I cut sawed, drilled and tapped the bar so that the cutting steel fits in it, I can tighten the the bar to keep the cutter solid in the bar, and easily remove and reinstall it for sharpening it, pretty hard to do that if it is in the 5 feet long steel bar.

 

[Neil S]

I noticed as I was tapping the metal lathe tool into the 1/2” square steel tube with a hammer, the tip cracked off very easily, as if it was very hard but also fairly brittle.

Hitting a hard steel with a hard steel is likely to result one of them shattering. Use a wooden mallet or just a lump of wood. Bumping the back end of the handle on something like the floor will also help to drive the cutter in.

 

[Tim Hunter]

If the age of the cutter is similar to the lathe it came with, it may not be very desirable material by modern standards - It may be nothing more than high-carbon steel.

Tim

 

[Brian Gustin]

Think you'll be fine - Lots of us turners that "DIY" our own tools may use lathe cutter bits, drill rod, and the like (I even have a 1/16 parting tool made from a metal cutting sawzall blade) Your likely quite old tool stock from the metal lathe may likely be carbide which will of course chip very easily if you smack it into something hard , but likely would cut very well (But be VERY hard to sharpen on traditional grinder, so if you ground it on traditional grinding wheel, it probably is NOT carbide) More modern tool steel for both metal and wood lathes is generally at least M2 HSS , so obviously cutter bits made for metal lathe will probably work just fine on wood, provided you can fashion suitable (and durable) holders / handles, and if your square tube section of what appears to be mild steel is going to be used the way it appears in your photos above as a holder, I would be hesitant to use that tool.. I would not want to be trusting my hands/fingers/face to the ability of that square tubing to hold up. I'd want solid bar stock all the way to the handle , not hollow tubing.

I'd sooner mount the whole bit directly in the handle (sacrificing quite a bit of its length of course, which is why it can be difficult to make your own tools out of metal lathe bits)

 

[hughie]

look up Oland woodturning tools

Wood Turning Tools: Making the Oland Tool

How to make an Oland tool for wood turning wooden bowls and doing other faceplate work. Easily and inexpensively made in the typical home workshop.

aroundthewoods.com

 

[Doug Rasmussen]

Interesting how Oland made his own tools, especially his hook tools to clear the bottoms of bowls. He forged the hooks from high carbon steel nails. Hook tools don't get much mention here even though they're very effective. Why not? Is it because none of the mainline gouge makers offer them?

 

[Brian Kopp]

Thanks all for your replies.

Included in this collection of metal lathe tools were also modern looking ones that look bright and shiny with a “W24” etched on the side.

Does that indicate a specific type of tool steel?

 

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Thanks all for your replies.

Included in this collection of metal lathe tools were also modern looking ones that look bright and shiny with a “W24” etched on the side.

Does that indicate a specific type of tool steel?

Don't know about the W24 Brian, but I would have no problem using 1/4 inch or larger steel bits to use on wood, and as we are discussing this subject, I think you would be better off to use toolbit sleeves to hold the bit, rather than the tubing you are thinking of.

These sleeve are used in metal working/turning when making toolholder, here is a picture of these, so you would only need a fitting hole in your handle for the sleeve, and your tool steel would go in there.

sold at different places, here is one.

https://www.mscdirect.com/browse/tn/Turning-Boring/Lathe-Tool-Bits-Holders/Tool-Bit-Holders-Sleeves?navid=2105893

 

[Brian Kopp]

These sleeve are used in metal working/turning when making toolholder, here is a picture of these, so you would only need a fitting hole in your handle for the sleeve, and your tool steel would go in there.

View attachment 51658 sold at different places, here is one.

https://www.mscdirect.com/browse/tn/Turning-Boring/Lathe-Tool-Bits-Holders/Tool-Bit-Holders-Sleeves?navid=2105893

Perfect, thanks!

I went to Lowe’s yesterday and the thin walled 1/2” square steel tube was all I could find to try this out.

 

[Doug Rasmussen]

The square hole sleeves are commonly used in various tooling components. The only drawback I know of is they can not be welded. They can be brazed or silver soldered though. They can be plain with a square through hole or threaded internally on one end to use a set screw to adjust the tool position in the sleeve.

They won't be found in local hardware stores. McMaster-Carr (and others) will have them mail order.

 

[Brian Kopp]

For now, I ended up inserting 3/8” square cold steel into the other end of the 1/2” square steel tube, to hopefully (?) reinforce it.

I also switched out the metal lathe tool steel to one of the more “modern” looking ones, though that is probably relative.

 

[Leo Van Der Loo]

For now, I ended up inserting 3/8” square cold steel into the other end of the 1/2” square steel tube, to hopefully (?) reinforce it.

I also switched out the metal lathe tool steel to one of the more “modern” looking ones, though that is probably relative.



View attachment 51685

Brian you can tell if the steel is high carbon steel or HSS by testing what parks you get from the steel when grinding on a regular grinder wheel.

The high carbon steel gives a forked spark that kind explodes , while the HSS has much redder spark without all the exploding trails.
Kind of like in this picture, the left one is high carbon steel.

 

[Brian Kopp]

Brian you can tell if the steel is high carbon steel or HSS by testing what parks you get from the steel when grinding on a regular grinder wheel.

The high carbon steel gives a forked spark that kind explodes , while the HSS has much redder spark without all the exploding trails.
Kind of like in this picture, the left one is high carbon steel.View attachment 51699

Interestingly, the “more modern” appearing one I ground today hardly made any sparks, and took FOREVER to ground into a bedan style. The one I did the other day looked like an older lathe tool steel, sparked much more, didn’t take quite as long to sharpen and the tip turned blue easily, so I’m assuming that one might have been high carbon steel and today’s some form of HSS.

But I didn’t notice the form the sparks themselves took.

 

[Neil S]

Interestingly, the “more modern” appearing one I ground today hardly made any sparks, and took FOREVER to ground into a bedan style.

Probably one of the cobalt carbides (eg tantung or stellite), you won't get much of a spark off those, or it could also be one of the tungsten carbides. If so, it may not take the sharpest edge but should have good endurance.