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Searching for Information Using Artificial Intelligence

RichColvin

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The proliferation of AI has made searching for information about woodturning significantly easier than using search tools like Google and DuckDuckGo. The great benefit provided by the AI tool is that it gives the answer to the question posed, with links to where it got that answer. It does not simply provide a list of places which might give you the information, but more notably, this is a list of sites through which I must go seek the information.

I prefer to use Perplexity.ai, but there are certainly others such as ChatGPT, Gemini, and Microsoft Copilot (that list is not complete; there are many more).

Note: Most AI systems require you to "sign up", but at least Perplexity and ChatGPT do not require you to pay anything at the lowest tier of usage. And I have not seen a large influx of spam email from this (like when I switched to using Gmail).

To give you an example of where this may be of use to you, I used a question posed recently by Michael Nathal titled, "Looking for an article". I posed this query to Perplexity & ChatGPT:

Please show me an article on woodturner.org about turning a hollow piece through the bottom

The responses I received are below. The web links noted are presented a little differently on each site, but this will give you a link to the same place.


Response from Perplexity.ai
Turning a Hollow Piece Through the Bottom: Overview

The technique of hollowing a vessel through the bottom-rather than the traditional approach of hollowing through the top opening-allows woodturners to create pieces with extremely small or even non-existent top openings, resulting in an "impossible" hollow form. This method is particularly useful for decorative vessels that appear solid or have only a tiny hole at the top, challenging the viewer’s expectations and showcasing advanced turning skills. (https://www.woodturner.org/Woodturn...Display.aspx?iProductCode=AW3604&Category=PUB)​

Key Article Reference

Wes Jones’s article, featured in American Woodturner (Volume 36, Issue 4), specifically addresses this technique. The article details how to create a hollow vessel with a very small or no opening at the top by hollowing through the bottom while the piece is mounted on the lathe.​

Process Summary

1. Initial Shaping​
  • Begin by shaping the exterior of the vessel as usual, focusing on the desired final form.
  • The top opening is kept very small or closed entirely, which is the hallmark of this method.
2. Hollowing Through the Bottom​
  • Instead of hollowing through the top, the piece is hollowed from the bottom.
  • The vessel is mounted on the lathe, and a hole is created in the bottom large enough to accommodate hollowing tools.
  • Specialized hollowing tools or systems are used to remove the interior wood, working carefully to achieve even wall thickness and avoid breaking through the sides.
3. Closing the Bottom​
  • After hollowing is complete, the bottom opening is closed.
  • This can be done by turning a plug or matching the grain as closely as possible, then gluing it in place.
  • The bottom is then finished and blended to hide the seam, making the hollowing process virtually undetectable.
Advantages of Bottom Hollowing
  • Enables the creation of vessels with minimal or no top opening.
  • Expands artistic possibilities and allows for "impossible" forms.
  • The technique is particularly useful for show pieces or competition work where visual intrigue and technical skill are valued.
Related Techniques
Other articles and resources from woodturner.org and the broader woodturning community discuss similar methods, such as:​
Considerations
  • Precision is critical when closing the bottom to ensure the seam is invisible.
  • Matching grain and finish are essential for a seamless appearance.
  • The technique requires careful planning and advanced turning skills.
Conclusion

Hollowing through the bottom is a specialized woodturning technique that allows for the creation of visually striking vessels with tiny or no openings at the top. Wes Jones’s article in American Woodturner provides a detailed guide to this process, highlighting the creative and technical challenges involved. (https://www.woodturner.org/Woodturn...Display.aspx?iProductCode=AW3604&Category=PUB) This approach pushes the boundaries of traditional woodturning and is a testament to the ingenuity of skilled turners.​


Response from ChatGPT.com
The American Association of Woodturners (AAW) has published several resources on the technique of hollowing woodturning projects through the bottom. This method is particularly useful for creating vessels with minimal or no openings at the top, allowing for unique design possibilities.​
Key Resources on Hollowing Through the Bottom
  1. "Hollowing Through the Bottom" by Wes Jones
    Featured in American Woodturner, Volume 36, Issue 4 (August 2021), this article by Wes Jones provides a comprehensive guide to hollowing vessels from the bottom. Jones discusses the use of lathe-mounted jigs and specialized tools to achieve this technique, enabling turners to create hollow forms with small or nonexistent top openings. The article includes detailed explanations and illustrations to assist woodturners in mastering this method.

  2. "Deep Hollowing from the Bottom Up" by Dennis
    In the Woodturning FUNdamentals publication (August 2019), Dennis presents a demonstration titled "Deep Hollowing from the Bottom Up." This resource offers insights into the process of hollowing deep vessels starting from the bottom, including discussions on jar shapes, styles, and the tools used for such projects. The article is rich with information beneficial for both novice and experienced woodturners.

  3. "Carved Turnings"
    An earlier article from American Woodturner (1994) titled "Carved Turnings" touches upon the technique of hollowing the base by first sawing off the excess piece and drilling through the base bottom. It then describes the removal of material using a bent scraper, providing foundational knowledge for those interested in bottom-up hollowing methods.
For more detailed information and to access these articles, you can visit the American Association of Woodturners website. Membership may be required to access certain publications.​
If you're interested in specific techniques, tools, or project ideas related to hollowing through the bottom, feel free to ask!​
 
I might have to start using AI for searches. I have been using AI for generating images and writing code but not for searches. Silly me.

Its vastly more efficient! I'm not a huge fan of where I think "AI" (really, just LLMs) are likely taking us societally, but...compared to spending hours searching search engines manually, reading any articles I find, and compiling some kind of meaningful result from it all....asking AI to search for me and summarize whatever it finds is just a vastly more efficient means of finding and learning things.

I still program by hand most of the time, as I find LLMs get "tongue tied" too often, or otherwise lost, hallucinating and unable to provide the correct results after a while. But they are an immensely useful research tool, and for quick answers, algorithms, etc. they are extremely efficient.
 
Interesting, but not what I wanted. I wanted the article where the top opening in a hollow form was offset from the center. Bill Blasic remembered it as Spring 2007 Vol 22 #1 "Something Different" by Tom Crabb.
 
Interesting, but not what I wanted. I wanted the article where the top opening in a hollow form was offset from the center. Bill Blasic remembered it as Spring 2007 Vol 22 #1 "Something Different" by Tom Crabb.
I think that was just an example of how AI can be used for searching. You could rephrase the question to suit your needs and try your own AI search.
 
I think that was just an example of how AI can be used for searching. You could rephrase the question to suit your needs and try your own AI search.
Yes, but when the article has a title like "Something Different" it would be an uphill battle. I tried a lot of different keywords and phrases including terms like "off-center" "hollowing through the bottom" and "multi axis" and without success.
 
I use Claude myself. Tried searching with your original post from "Looking for an article", then had it expand to before 2011. Here is the result:

I'll expand my search to look for articles published before 2011 that might cover hollow forms with off-centered entry holes.

Searched for "American Woodturner article "hollowing through bottom" "asymmetrical opening" "offset entry" John Jordan David Ellsworth 2000-2011"

Let me try a different search approach to find that specific article:

Searched for "American Woodturner article "asymmetrical opening" hollow form technique "off-center hole" pre-2010 Smithsonian"

Let me try one more search with a specific focus on hollow forms with access through the bottom:

Searched for "American Woodturner article "hollow form" "hollowing through bottom" "plug" "off-center opening" 2000-2011"

I'll try one final search approach focusing on John Jordan's technique for hollow forms with small openings:

Searched for "American Woodturner John Jordan "contrasting collar" "small opening" hollow form technique "turned and carved hollow vessel" 2000-2011"

After extensive searching through American Woodturner articles and related resources, I've found some relevant information about techniques for creating hollow forms with off-centered entry holes, but I haven't been able to locate the specific article you're remembering about hollowing through the bottom.

Here's what I've discovered that might be helpful:

1. I found a mention in one of the AAW forum discussions of John Jordan's technique where he would "hollow through a larger hole, then add a contrasting material to make a collar with a smaller opening" [Aawforum](https://www.aawforum.org/community/threads/i-tried-my-lyle-jamieson-system.22679/) . This technique allows for easier hollowing through a larger opening while creating the appearance of a smaller entry hole in the finished piece.

2. Another related technique was described where you can "hollow a 9" deep piece through the bottom with 1.5" bar and disguise the plug with grooves. Then you can have a 1/2" or 1/4" opening" [Aawforum](https://www.aawforum.org/community/threads/hollowing-vessels.20559/) . The groove helps hide the glue joint where the plug is inserted.

3. In Richard Findley's article on hollow forms, he mentions that a technique for dealing with the pith is to "drill out and plug the pith in the base of the form" [Woodworkersinstitute](https://woodworkersinstitute.com/first-hollow-form/) , which is somewhat similar to the technique you're describing.

4. According to forum posts, John Jordan wrote an article titled "Turned and Carved Hollow Vessel" that appeared in the Spring 2009 issue of American Woodturner. This might contain information related to the technique you're looking for.

I'd recommend checking these specific resources:

1. The Spring 2009 issue of American Woodturner with John Jordan's article "Turned and Carved Hollow Vessel"

2. John Jordan's instructional DVD titled "Hollow Turning," which "guides you through the steps in making deep hollow turnings with a small opening at the top" [Packardwoodworks](https://www.packardwoodworks.com/182702.html)

3. Looking through back issues of American Woodturner between 2000-2010, especially for articles by John Jordan, David Ellsworth, or other well-known hollow form turners

If you have access to the AAW's digital archives, you might try searching specifically for terms like "off-center entry," "asymmetrical opening," or "hollowing through bottom" to locate the article you remember.

Would any of these resources be helpful in your search, or did you remember any other details about the article that might help narrow it down?

Citations:
- [I tried my Lyle Jamieson System | American Association of Woodturners](https://www.aawforum.org/community/threads/i-tried-my-lyle-jamieson-system.22679/)
- [Hollowing Vessels | American Association of Woodturners](https://www.aawforum.org/community/threads/hollowing-vessels.20559/)
- [Richard Findley's First Hollow Form: A Journey in Woodturning](https://woodworkersinstitute.com/first-hollow-form/)
- [Packard Woodworks: The Woodturner's Source: Hollow Turning by John Jordan - DVD](https://www.packardwoodworks.com/182702.html)

More sources:
- [Plagiarism Article | Page 2 | American Association of Woodturners](https://www.aawforum.org/community/threads/plagiarism-article.549/page-2)
- [Any tips for using Ellsworth hollowing tools? | American Association of Woodturners](https://www.aawforum.org/community/threads/any-tips-for-using-ellsworth-hollowing-tools.15900/)
- [Resources/Articles - JOHN JORDAN WOODTURNING](https://www.johnjordanwoodturning.com/resourcesarticles.html)
- [Woodturner](https://www.woodturner.org/common/Uploaded%20files/AmericanWoodturner/AW2000s/AW2303-2008.pdf)
- [Hollowing](https://s3.amazonaws.com/media.guidebook.com/upload/121752/fCvdt70ApE6OSMh4Ro0e6m8YlDCNfdanc3vI.pdf)
- [JOHN JORDAN WOODTURNING - Home](https://www.johnjordanwoodturning.com/)
- [American Woodturner](https://www.woodturner.org/common/Uploaded%20files/AmericanWoodturner/Index/AW3703-2022Index.pdf)
- [Woodturner Lathed On Through to the Other Side – Asheville Made](https://ashevillemade.com/woodturner-lathed-on-through-to-the-other-side/)
- [7 Valuable David Ellsworth Wood Bowl Turning Insights](https://turnawoodbowl.com/7-valuable-david-ellsworth-wood-bowl-turning-insights/)
- [Hollowing tools | American Association of Woodturners](https://www.aawforum.org/community/threads/hollowing-tools.12025/)
- [Peek Into Hollow Turning](https://www.woodmagazine.com/woodworking-how-to/woodworking-scrolling-carving/peek-into-hollow-turning)
- [Hohlfeld's Hollow Form — Bucks Woodturners](https://www.bucksturners.com/bucksblog/2019/3/7/hohlfelds-hollow-form)
- [First Larger Hollow Form | American Association of Woodturners](https://www.aawforum.org/community/threads/first-larger-hollow-form.22314/)
- [Hollow Form Templates | American Association of Woodturners](https://www.aawforum.org/community/threads/hollow-form-templates.19699/)
- [Woodturning - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodturning)
- [Woodturner David Ellsworth Received the Smithsonian Institute’s 2021 Visionary Award | Alumni Association | University of Colorado Boulder](https://www.colorado.edu/coloradan/2021/11/05/woodturner-david-ellsworth-received-smithsonian-institutes-2021-visionary-award)
- [Woodturning Discussion Forum | American Association of Woodturners](https://www.aawforum.org/community/forums/woodturning-discussion-forum.2/)
- [Bowl interior technique | American Association of Woodturners](https://www.aawforum.org/community/threads/bowl-interior-technique.18711/)
- [Turning Hollow Forms - Techniques and Projects | Hollow Form Woodturning Books](https://www.highlandwoodworking.com/turning-hollow-forms-techniques-and-projects.aspx)
- [Holding Hollow Forms for Bottom Finishing? | American Association of Woodturners](https://www.aawforum.org/community/threads/holding-hollow-forms-for-bottom-finishing.12589/)
- [Hollow forms - getting started | American Association of Woodturners](https://www.aawforum.org/community/threads/hollow-forms-getting-started.15487/)
- [Hollowing systems | American Association of Woodturners](https://www.aawforum.org/community/threads/hollowing-systems.20647/)
- [Hollowing system | American Association of Woodturners](https://www.aawforum.org/community/threads/hollowing-system.16651/)
- [John Jordan (woodturner) - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Jordan_(woodturner))
- [John Jordan | American Association of Woodturners](https://www.aawforum.org/community/threads/john-jordan.14855/)
- [John Jordan: a turned and textured vessel - Australian Wood Review](https://www.woodreview.com.au/how-to/john-jordan-a-turned-and-textured-vessel)
- [Hollowing with John Jordan tools | American Association of Woodturners](https://www.aawforum.org/community/threads/hollowing-with-john-jordan-tools.16058/)
- [John Jordan | Smithsonian American Art Museum](https://americanart.si.edu/artist/john-jordan-6796)
- [John Jordan | Small Lidded Jar | November 21, 2020](https://www.woodturner.org/Woodturner/2020-Virtual-Events/John%20Jordan-Small-Lidded-Jar-November-21-2020.aspx)
- [John Jordan – U.S. Department of State](https://www.art.state.gov/personnel/john_jordan/)
- [John Jordan Demonstrates for CMW – March 19, 2022](https://carolinamountainwoodturners.org/demonstrations/john-jordan-demonstrates-for-cmw-march-19-2022/)
 
Would any of these resources be helpful in your search, or did you remember any other details about the article that might help narrow it down?
Thanks for your efforts. The articles you refer to are fine as general interest, but were relatively easy to find with Google and/or Explore searches. I have tried a few more search terms without success. My suspicion is that the article's title of "Something Different" has little relevance to the contents of the article. And all of these search tools seem to have problems in searching for the contents of the article in addition to the title. I will say that the author Tom Crabb called these hollow forms "pods" and "pod forms" terms that I did not associate with my memory of the article. Searching with a keyword "pod" does reveal the article within Explore. Searching in Google with "pod" or "pod form" was not successful.

Since I have the article now, I am happy.

My interest now is to push for an improved Explore function. Some examples:
1. "hollow vessel" as the search term gives totally different results compared to "hollow form".
2. The AI search above suggests a 1994 article titled "Carved Turnings". Searching using Explore and the term "Carved Turnings" does not produce the article.
3. I searched with the following key words: Drozda, burl, figure, dye, dyes. None of these searches hit on "Enhance Burl Figure with Dye" by Cindy Drozda, in the Oct 2022 issue
 
A search engine (or search function on a web site) is only as good as its index. A decent search function will have indexed the appropriate content and accounted for root/stem words (so that for example hollow, hollowed, hollowing are considered the same) and possibly/probably synonyms. I don't see a lot of evidence of this in the "Explore" function.

The ideal "Explore" (IMO) would be to properly index the content of each article (text/title/author/photo captions/etc). It appears that didn't happen, and the index just is way too simple to be really useful in real life. (And in some cases, it almost appears to me that parts of the index was manually hand-crafted).
 
Thanks for your efforts. The articles you refer to are fine as general interest, but were relatively easy to find with Google and/or Explore searches. I have tried a few more search terms without success. My suspicion is that the article's title of "Something Different" has little relevance to the contents of the article. And all of these search tools seem to have problems in searching for the contents of the article in addition to the title. I will say that the author Tom Crabb called these hollow forms "pods" and "pod forms" terms that I did not associate with my memory of the article. Searching with a keyword "pod" does reveal the article within Explore. Searching in Google with "pod" or "pod form" was not successful.

Since I have the article now, I am happy.

My interest now is to push for an improved Explore function. Some examples:
1. "hollow vessel" as the search term gives totally different results compared to "hollow form".
2. The AI search above suggests a 1994 article titled "Carved Turnings". Searching using Explore and the term "Carved Turnings" does not produce the article.
3. I searched with the following key words: Drozda, burl, figure, dye, dyes. None of these searches hit on "Enhance Burl Figure with Dye" by Cindy Drozda, in the Oct 2022 issue

All of those references were produced by Claude. All I did was take your original question in the original thread, and prompt Claude with it, then ask it to expand the date range. Everything else was what Claude produced, including all the references.

AI and search engines can only search what they have been provided. A LOT of the time, certain content is private and protected, allowing only members or paying customers access. Such information will not be available to either search engines or AI/LLM tools. There is really nothing that can be done about that...and in the long run, it took another human with familiarity with the specific article to state its exact designation and date of publication. To a degree, ONLY humans are capable of something like that, and only those who have the necessary knowledge.
 
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