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Setup for Mahoney Wood Beater 3/4 Grind?

Randy Anderson

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A friend of mine ordered a 3/4 Wood Beater gouge from Carter. When it arrived he realized that what he got was the standard grind gouge, not the special grind they listed. He also didn't receive the setup info for the Wolverine jig as the web site states can be done for their grinds. Does anyone have that info? He says the nose angle is 50 degrees and the shaft should be out of the jig by 2”. He saw that piece of info in a video but nothing more was provided. Mahoney states in his video that the wing shoulders are to be left thicker, but does not tell how to do the grind. He's reaching out to where he purchased it and has searched for info but can't find anyone that shows how to setup the Wolvering jig for the Mahoney Wood Beater grind setup on a 3/4 gouge. Anyone have any info that will help?
 
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Not really familiar with that specific tool. Most of the BOB tools tend to have very little sweep to the wings, and a more blunt bevel angle. I keep mine in the 70 degree bevel range, and a nose that is ) shaped. 50 degrees will get through a very shallow arc. 60 degrees, which is a common angle for the swept back grinds, will get through most bowls. I have seen some with 80 degree bevels. I think most of these are platform sharpened rather than in a jig. I also think that most people will sharpen their spindle roughing gouges on a platform rather than use a jig. I think, but am not positive, that Mike uses a half round flute shape for his BOB tools. He cuts with the flutes pretty much straight up, so the wing is at a higher shear angle, and the bottom is almost at a scraping angle. I always use mine with the flutes on the side rather than up, so the bottom of the flute is at almost 90 degrees.

Hope this helps a little.

robo hippy
 
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From their sharpening guide for 3/4in Mahoney Wood Beater:
40 Deg Angle of flat platform or angle to set distance from wheel to Wolverine Jig v-arm pivot.
2" Protrusion of tool from vari-grind jig.
23 Deg angle of vari-grind jig arm.

V-Flute Fingernail Grind is 50Deg, 2" protrusion and 23Deg
 
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Carter’s site says 40 deg bevel, and it appears the wings are close to 40, with long wings and a concave wing profile. Similar to a Michelsen grind in that nose and wing angles are about equal. Suspect Mahoney’s comment about “leaving wings thicker” relates to maintaining the bevel angle around the wing, unlike an Ellsworth grind which has less wing bevel vs the nose.
 
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Okay, now I understand, his woodbeater is the 40/40 grind. His bottom feeder is more regular. His nose is a bit pointy for my tastes, but I guess that depends on if you are using the wing for your main cutting surface, or the nose. Since I hold my tools more level, I tend to use the nose. Stuart tends to do that as well. Mike, I think, prefers a more dropped handle method. That 40/40 grind really works great.

robo hippy
 
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Hmm, looking at again, it is more swept back than the standard 40/40, but not as swept back as the Irish grind. Mike does cut more with the wing than the nose.

This just made me think about a possible invention. Some thing like the Varigrind, but the gouge goes into a sleeve that is able to pivot, in addition to the pivoting of the arm it is in. Should be possible. I do like the idea of having more meat on the wings of the gouges. I don't like the pointy nose on Mike's grind, though I haven't played with it. When I grind one like that, I fix it to more rounded.

robo hippy
 
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@Reed: An old project mockup that didn't really go anywhere, but:
Same slide-and-turn idea, you're thinking about?
Lars
 

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Perhaps Tormek has already invented it, many years ago. Current model SVD-186. It leaves the cheeks “fatter” and the bevel angle more consistant nose to wing, like a Hans Michelsen grin


They have a toolbar/stand setup for bench grinders, so a wet grinder is not necessary.

 
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Lars, that looks very much like what I had in mind. That set up provides a locking nut, so the gouge stays in place. I think I would go with a knob so I don't have to hunt for a hex wrench, and it would be on a pivot arm like the Varigrind. Excellent idea! You could also do swept back grinds. You could have different inserts for different sized gouges..... Mount it on one longer rod rather than 2 piece like you show. Maybe weld the rod into the tube so it doesn't unscrew when you are sharpening.....

The problem with the Tormek and the Varigrind is that by locking the gouge in a frame, you can't get enough roll when you sharpen. By roll, I mean a scraper has no roll when you platform sharpen, a spindle roughing gouge has roll only with no sweep, and the swept back grind has roll and a very wide sweep to the sides. You need that extra roll to get a true 40/40 grind.

robo hippy
 
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The problem with the Tormek and the Varigrind is that by locking the gouge in a frame, you can't get enough roll when you sharpen.
Have you used the Tormek jig? It rolls by virtue of the shaft, to which the tool is mounted, pivots within the housing that slides on the tool bar. The sliding allows the tool to roll more than the varigrind, giving a steeper angle on the wings. My 40/40 done with the jig looks and measures just like Stuarts grind, and he says in one of videos the Tormek jig is capable of his 40/40 grind. What I’m not positive of, is whether the Tormek jig is capable of the Ellsworth grind with steep wings. My long wing 60 deg gouges are more equal bevel angle nose to wings, like Michelsen’s grind. I like it so havent pursued an Ellsworth style.
 
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Well, I have a really old Tormek, and the only thing I use it for is the leather honing wheel. Maybe if I get one of those diamond wheels for it, I would use it for sharpening turning tools. I would also have to figure out how to mount my robo rest grinder platform to it.

robo hippy
 
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