I have a rinkon 8" slow speed grinder came with 60 grit and 120 grit wheels. Thinking of getting at least one cbn wheel doesn't anyone have recommendations? What's the finest grit I should consider? Mostly bowl turning.
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Sharpening grit and wheels
- Thread starter Scott Faulkner
- Start date
There are other threads on this if you search! I would recommend a 180 grit if you only have one cbn wheel. I sharpen scrapers, bedan, parting tools, gouges all on 180 grit. I touch up my bowl gouges on a 600cbn wheel several times in between each trip to the 180 grit.
I probably have the same grinder if it's 1/2 hp. I replaced one wheel with a 180 grit cbn like was recommended by Darryn and then I left the coarse friable one on for now because I have used it to do some reshaping/re-purposing for different experiments. I bought an aluminum wheel because that's what people said for lightness with a 1/2 hp.. I'm no expert though.
Thanks. That's what I was wondering about just how fine for a longer lasting sharpening. Seem like the 120 gets dull in about 15 minutes. Does there 600 last longer?
Mine is a 1hp but im surely very similar. I was thinking of keeping the 120 and going with a finer cbn but wasn't debating if that was the right choice.
Keep in mind that the surface of a 12" blank may be going 30 mph. In 15 minutes, the edge of your gouge will have cut through 39,000 feet of wood. There's no benefit in trying to stretch out the time your edge 'lasts', as it will be dull long before 15 minutes are up in that scenario.
Experienced turners understand this and sharpen more often than newbies. I'm a cheapskate and it's hard for me to swallow, but as my good friend always said, "Turning tools are disposables, just like sandpaper."
Wow never even considered that. That being said arr the higher end tools worth it or area the cheaper tools well sharpened a better choice?
IMO depends where you are in your turning journey. As this is under “getting started”, I’ll assume you are early on. Over time each turner will typically use a few tools (2-4 maybe) to do most of the cutting, but those few tools wont be the same for everyone - ex: some may use a skew a lot, I rarely do. Depends on what they make and how they make them.
The advantage of the better, more expensive tools is edge holding (due to the different steel - m42, v10, etc). Cheaper tools (bens best from psi is my recommendation) allows the inexperienced to learn sharpening and develop their methods and not have so much invested in tools that end up not seeing much use.
Particularly with bowl gouges, where there are many combinations of grinds and flute design, cheaper tools enable experimentation and experience with these combinations to determine what works best for them, and not grind away as many $’s.
When the turner determines what tools get used up due to use (vs grinding them away), get a few expensive tools. They dont make you a better turner, the edge just lasts longer reducing resharpening. Those cheaper tools will continue to perform just fine for limited use.
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Like @Doug Freeman said tools you want to have will vary
A great way to get started is to connect with a local club, take a class, get a mentor.
Those experiences will introduce you to tools and sharpening methods as well as how to create turned objects.
With bowl turning you might get taught the Ellsworth grind, 40/40 grind, Michelson grind, Irish grind, traditional grind, scraping.
Each of these will have different tools and sharpening methods.
I can turn any outside shape with
1/2 inch bowl gouge (5/8” bar Dia) Ellsworth grind sharpened using an Ellsworth jig and an 80 grit CBN wheel
3/8” spindle gouge 30 degree fingernail grind hand sharpened on a 180 grit CBN wheel
Diamond parting tool sharpened using a platform on a CBN wheel
My beginning bowl class students learned to use those tools along with
A round nose scraper sharpened using a platform
I teach them to sharpen the spindle gouge with the varigrind.
I have and use dozens of other tools.
But for bowls it is the bowl gouge, spindle gouge, and the scraper if needed.
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If you are getting one CBN wheel, get a 180 grit. It will do 90% of all the sharpening you will need to do. If you get a second wheel, I suggest a 600 grit wheel. The 320 isn't enough of a step up. As for which edge lasts the longest, that is debatable. Coarse wheel has fewer teeth so it lasts longer. Fine wheel has more teeth so it lasts longer. As near as I can tell, I get more mileage out of the 180 grit wheels than out of the 600 grit wheels. Important to remember, there is a big difference between sharpening and grinding. Grinding wastes metal.
robo hippy
robo hippy
Good advice based on plenty of experience above. More things to think about regarding steel and sharpening.
A really capable production turner, like Mike Mahoney or Glenn Lucas, can turn the outside of a green bowl in about 4 passes. That puts a whole lot of wood past the edge in a short time, and they can notice a benefit from more expensive steel because they don't have to stop to sharpen. For them, time is money.
For me, a mere mortal, I sharpen at least 4 times turning a small or medium sized bowl. Once before roughing the outside, once before final turns on the outside, once before roughing the inside, and once before final passes on the inside. (yes, there's other stuff to do, too, like taking off the tenon, but you get the idea.) In this setting, M2 steel will usually last long enough, though not always. If I'm turning big bowls, I'll need to sharpen more often than that and then the more expensive steels, that hold an edge longer, are beneficial to me. There's less interruption in my work, producing more consistent wall thickness, and maybe better curves.
If I'm turning a green blank to a finished bowl, I need to turn quickly, before the wood has a chance to dry and move on me. Stopping to sharpen could create a substantial problem. It can be mitigated by having multiple gouges, but a longer lasting sharp edge and uninterrupted turning is still desirable.
Beginners aren't in a hurry, aren't making their living by turning, usually start with dry blanks for bowls, usually aren't turning green to finished. So the benefit of advanced steels is less noticeable.
My experience may not be as representative of newbies as I previously thought, but I went through a lot of steel learning to sharpen. I felt a lot less anguish over it learning with $20 Benjamin's Best tools than if it had been $100 Crown PM or Carter tools. However, the more expensive tools are likely to also have a better design or shape, which is likely to allow you to do better work earlier than the cheap tools. It's a trade-off. If money is not a concern, by all means, start with Cryo or Powdered Metal or V10 tools and don't look back.
A really capable production turner, like Mike Mahoney or Glenn Lucas, can turn the outside of a green bowl in about 4 passes. That puts a whole lot of wood past the edge in a short time, and they can notice a benefit from more expensive steel because they don't have to stop to sharpen. For them, time is money.
For me, a mere mortal, I sharpen at least 4 times turning a small or medium sized bowl. Once before roughing the outside, once before final turns on the outside, once before roughing the inside, and once before final passes on the inside. (yes, there's other stuff to do, too, like taking off the tenon, but you get the idea.) In this setting, M2 steel will usually last long enough, though not always. If I'm turning big bowls, I'll need to sharpen more often than that and then the more expensive steels, that hold an edge longer, are beneficial to me. There's less interruption in my work, producing more consistent wall thickness, and maybe better curves.
If I'm turning a green blank to a finished bowl, I need to turn quickly, before the wood has a chance to dry and move on me. Stopping to sharpen could create a substantial problem. It can be mitigated by having multiple gouges, but a longer lasting sharp edge and uninterrupted turning is still desirable.
Beginners aren't in a hurry, aren't making their living by turning, usually start with dry blanks for bowls, usually aren't turning green to finished. So the benefit of advanced steels is less noticeable.
My experience may not be as representative of newbies as I previously thought, but I went through a lot of steel learning to sharpen. I felt a lot less anguish over it learning with $20 Benjamin's Best tools than if it had been $100 Crown PM or Carter tools. However, the more expensive tools are likely to also have a better design or shape, which is likely to allow you to do better work earlier than the cheap tools. It's a trade-off. If money is not a concern, by all means, start with Cryo or Powdered Metal or V10 tools and don't look back.
In my experience the 180 grit seems to last longer. The 600 grit is a bit finer edge and helps with getting less tear out on softer woods. The real reason to touch up with the 600 grit is that it takes less steel off of the gouge than the 180. I usually sharpen up with the 180 grit to start and then keep touching up with the 600 often while turning a piece. It may just be in my mind, but I feel like my tool works well and will last longer that way.
Really appreciate the perspective. I will try out some different bowl grinds. I have only tried with the ellsworth so far.
Production turners will also have several gouges ready to go so they don't have to stop and sharpen other than sharpening all the gouges at once. Me, I use my big ugly tool for all of the heavy roughing. The M42HSS and the V10 metal are worth every penny.
robo hippy
robo hippy