sharpening

[Dave Fritz]

I recently purchased a 3/8 inch shallow fluted bowl gauge from Doug Thompson. I'm not clear on how to sharpen it.

Do you take it out of the handle to sharpen it?

Since it has such a steep bevel it rides very close to the center of the wheel while in a Wolverine jig.

Can anyone recommend a video showing a traditional grind sharpening technique using the platform and doing it free hand?

Thanks,

Dave F.

 

[Greg_Haugen]

A shallow fluted bowl gouge? I don't see on Doug's lists.

Do you mean shallow fluted detail gouge or a "V" or "U" shaped bowl gouge?

 

[john lucas]

All of Doug's gouges that I have purchased come with a grind that is pretty close to correct for most turners. That doesn't mean you can't change it. I have his spindle gouge and detail gouge both of which are shallower flutes than the bowl gouge.

 

[Dave Fritz]

U shaped

U shaped bowl gouge 3/8 inch

Any videos on sharpening it with the traditional grind?

Thanks,

Dave F.

 

[Greg_Haugen]

Dave,

Most commonly, these days "traditional" grinds are used for finishing the interior of bowls, as well as "push" cuts on the outside. Is that your purpose?

Traditional grinds are ground simply on the platform. Mike Mahoney has a Youtube video where he covers his methods of sharpening. This grind is sharpened starting at 5:50. This youtube video is one chapter from Mike's Bowl Basics DVD. Highly recommend it.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Bowlmaker10#p/a/u/2/4m8-8MNhpvY

Al Stirt, also has a similar grind, and his is on the gouge in question. Here's a picture of the grind. It's the "Finishing" gouge listed on the page.

http://alstirt.com/Pages/ Tools.html

I have a 1/2" "U" Thompson bowl gouge that I've ground to my preference for an interior bowl gouge. One tip for sharpening "U" and "V" profiled gouges. The side walls of the gouges are "straight". The side wall cannot pass the horizontal plane (parallel to the floor). If it does, the side wall of the gouge will be "hollow" ground and that's not preferred. Also there's a lot of steel under the flute of these gouges. By grinding a secondary bevel, like you can easily see in Stirt's, The steel doesn't rub on the bevel's heel and it makes sharpening easier. If all of that steel, the heel will take a fair amount of time to grind, it's a lot steel, and the wings will disappear like nothing. By cutting that back, it helps the cut and also "equals" out the grind time between the nose and sides of the gouge better. If you want the wings to "tilt" back slightly, angle the gouge ever so slightly. If you want them more vertical, keep the gouge straight.

Another DVD just came out. It's by Glenn Lucas and it's available through woodworker's emporium. He covers the sharpening of every traditional tool and it's use. I'd highly recommend it.

http://www.woodworkersemporium.com/browse.cfm/books-and-dvds/2,35.html

Any more questions, feel free to ask.

 

[MichaelMouse]

Al Stirt, also has a similar grind, and his is on the gouge in question. Here's a picture of the grind. It's the "Finishing" gouge listed on the page.

http://alstirt.com/Pages/ Tools.html

Neat looking grind. Hearkens back to one of the original attempts to get the performance turners were used to out of cylindrical gouges. I just keep some of the old ones available.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d160/GoodOnesGone/Three-Noses.jpg

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d160/GoodOnesGone/Bevels.jpg

http://s108.photobucket.com/albums/n28/MichaelMouse/?action=view&current=CherryPeelIn.mp4

http://s108.photobucket.com/albums/n28/MichaelMouse/?action=view&current=CherryPeelOut.mp4

As to the original question, you might want to use the Underhill approach, where the tool serves as its own guide. Lay the heel of the bevel on the stone, pick up the handle until you have the toe and roll. It's pretty much the same way you'd cut wood at the lathe.

Modify to longer bevels for lower sharpness angles and longer thin shavings, shorter for higher, which work fine on mixed grain presentations.

 

[Dave Fritz]

Thanks for all the feedback.

Greg, check your IM's

Dave F.

 

[Cliff De Witt]

Traditional Gouge bevel angle?

Dave,

What is the angle on that? Looks like it could be close to 450

 

[Greg_Haugen]

Cliff,

for this grind, I'll often use a 50-60 degree angle. This angle will change depending on the gouge's presentation to the wood. My swept back gouges have a 40-45 degree angle and these gouges will go where the steeper grinds can't. Like around the curve and across the bottom of a bowl.

 

[Dave Fritz]

While downstairs starting the wood fire I was looking through David Ellsworth's book and noticed he uses an 85 degree gauge to do the finishing cut inside the bowls. There are several photos comparing it's use to his regular Ellsworth grind gauge for the same application.

He mentions with that steep of a bevel he can always keep the bevel in contact with the wood even at the deepest point of the bowl.

Dave f.

 

[Greg_Haugen]

Yep. It's the same principal. Depending on the bowl, the angle of the gouge can change majorly in order to keep the bevel on the wood. The most I've gone was about 70 degree, but usually keep it in the 50-60 degree range. When turning the interior of a bowl, you want to maintain a "push" to the cut, the handle is behind the cutting edge. At 85 degrees, that can be difficult to maintain the cut. If the gouge becomes more of a perpendicular angle, 90 degrees, you use the support and control. The wood can push the gouge either direction and that's not what you want. You have the control in a push cut and a pull cut, but the angle range between the two is where you have the least control.

Same principal, just different angles and techniques.

 

[DOCworks]

I found this page very helpful when trying to determine what I wanted to do. It is on Wood Central’s site, hope they won't mind the reference.

http://www.woodcentral.com/newforum/grinds.shtml

Our new members find it most helpful, that and the log orientation PDF that is available. I keep it on my Kindle when I am out cutting logs, as this old brain does not always keep up, as it should.

 

[MichaelMouse]

Yep. It's the same principal. Depending on the bowl, the angle of the gouge can change majorly in order to keep the bevel on the wood.

You can do as well with greater clearance angles, of course, and have a more versatile gouge ground for lower sharpness angle work. If you skew the gouge a bit, your bevel contact is a progressive one parallel to the edge, and the heel need never get close to the work.

 

[Dean Center]

I found this page very helpful when trying to determine what I wanted to do. It is on Wood Central’s site, hope they won't mind the reference.
Our new members find it most helpful, that and the log orientation PDF that is available. I keep it on my Kindle when I am out cutting logs, as this old brain does not always keep up, as it should.

Bill,
can you provide a page reference for the log orientation PDF. I can't seem to locate it on WoodCentral.
Thanks.
Dean Center

 

[MichaelMouse]

Not sure, but this might be it. http://www.texaswoodshop.com/turning/Woodgrain_to_Log_handout.pdf

 

[DOCworks]

Bill,
can you provide a page reference for the log orientation PDF. I can't seem to locate it on WoodCentral.
Thanks.
Dean Center

The Log Orientation PDF is on a few sites under different names. But Google finds in on the Ohio Valley Woodturners at http://www.ovwg.org/New-OVWG-Site/Techniques/Todd Hoyer - Grain Orientation.pdf

I find it helpful and so have many members of our club.

Oh just to make sure credit is given, Todd Hoyer is credited with putting the document together.

 

[Dave Fritz]

It appears the link is broken?

 

[john lucas]

Dave I have one old gouge I use just for this. My normal gouges are 45 and 55 degrees. I can turn most bowls with this. When I do closed bowls the lip of the bowls limits how long I can stay on the bevel and can't do the bottom. For those I pick up the old gouge and if necessary put whatever grind I need on it to do the bottom 1/3 of the bowl. Usually it's somewhere around 70 to 80 degrees.
I own a Hunter tool which has a 7 degree bevel on the carbide cutter. This corresponds to about 83 degrees if we talk about it in bowl gouge terminology. For that reason it is excellent at doing these sort of cuts. You can rub the bevel either center out or outside in and turn the bottom through fairly narrow openings.

 

[John Lawson]

Link

Try this:

http://www.ovwg.org/New-OVWG-Site/Techniques/Todd%20Hoyer%20-%20Grain%20Orientation.pdf