Simple Tips that Help You Turn Best

[Jon Rista]

I started turning in 2020, right as the pandemic started. Purchased my first lathe (sadly a Nova 14DR, very new at the time, was a disaster!!) in early February, but wasn't able to get all the necessary tools (i.e. chucks, right jaws, etc.) to start turning bowls, which is what I started with, until about April. Started turning a lot in April, and applied things I'd learned watching lots of turning videos over the prior year or so. There have been a number of simple little tips, sayings, that have helped me turn well, and I thought it would be interesting to have a thread where everyone could share their little gems.

Here are a few that have helped me:

* Cutting > Scraping > Sanding
* Let the wood come to the tool
* Faster cuts cleaner
* Sharpen often, cut clean
* Let the (sanding) grit do the work
* Spin the blank fast enough to minimize "air gap time" (initial shaping, square/polygonal/odd shapes, etc.)
* Safety is first and foremost a choice, choose to BE safe first!

 

[Paul Bement]

Jon,
My tip for the day is ALLWAYS wear your face shield. I have only been turning for not quite two years now and have had my face mask knocked off or hit several times.
My gauge got caught and the handle itself jumped up and hit me.

 

[JeffSmith]

Jon,
My tip for the day is ALLWAYS wear your face shield. I have only been turning for not quite two years now and have had my face mask knocked off or hit several times.
My gauge got caught and the handle itself jumped up and hit me.

Good info Paul, but if you’ve had a few run ins with flying wood and tools, a little time with a good mentor can get you through the danger zones without the stress. Are you in a club?

 

[Odie]

Here are a few that have helped me:

* Cutting > Scraping > Sanding
* Let the wood come to the tool
* Faster cuts cleaner
* Sharpen often, cut clean
* Let the (sanding) grit do the work
* Spin the blank fast enough to minimize "air gap time" (initial shaping, square/polygonal/odd shapes, etc.)
* Safety is first and foremost a choice, choose to BE safe first!

Jon.....I think there is a lot of good thought in your rules, but I do question the one I have made bold in your post. Yes.....faster does cut cleaner, but only because you'd be forcing a tool to cut that could be sharper.

Reducing, or eliminating inherent vibration is one of the best ways to create the right circumstances for a sharp tool to cut cleanly. Fine tuning the rpm to reach that goal is a primary element in this effort. Getting the best rpm for the purpose of making a tool cut the wood cleanly isn't a matter of speeding up the cut.....it's more the result of a very sharp and stabilized edge cutting wood that is spinning in one geometrically perfect path......smoothly.....and.....concentrically.

You can't get a perfect clean cut if the wood, or the lathe vibrates. This vibration can be so insignificant that it would be difficult to detect it using your fingers on the bedways......but, it can be detected by using a simple invention called a vibrometer.

Once you understand this, and refine your rpm's to the best possible outcome..........you'll understand that although rpm is a necessary element of the total perfect equation......it's an equation nonetheless.

=o=

Search for "vibrometer": https://www.aawforum.org/community/search/48453/?q=vibrometer&o=relevance

 

[John K Jordan]

I think there is a lot of good thought in your rules, but I do question the one I have made bold in your post. Yes.....faster does cut cleaner, but only because you'd be forcing a tool to cut that could be sharper. … You can't get a perfect clean cut if the wood, or the lathe vibrates.

Something is not clear. Does the word “faster” used here refer to the lathe speed or the tool speed?
Assuming by “faster cuts cleaner” the “faster” means a higher RPM:

I think there are cases where faster cuts cleaner/smoother. For example, consider turning a thin spindle at a given RPM with all vibration under control and using a shaving-sharp skew or spindle gouge. Moving the tool slower down the spindle can result in an ultra smooth cut since the amount of wood removed at each revolution is smaller. Moving the tool rapidly can, in the extreme case, create a visible spiral.

This is equivalent to moving the tool at a constant speed with but cutting with a high RPM vs a slow RPM. With a high RPM, the amount of wood removed at each revolution is smaller with the cuts closer together. In my experience, this can result in a very smooth cut.

An example, I sometimes show these finials at spindle turning demos, both were turned at the highest speed on my lathe, over 3000 RPM.
The one from Holly is straight off the gouge, zero sanding.

I hit the one from ebony with some 800 grit paper. Tools are razor sharp. And with the fingers wrapped around the spindle for support I can feel (and control) even the slightest vibration. Vibration can be fatal to thin spindles. (BTW, the 2MT collets are wonderful for spinning short spindle like this.)



Of course, these are both fine-grained species, easier to cut smoothly.

One of my mantras is turn fast, sand slow. Again, where “fast” refers to lathe speed.
Moving the tool slowly and effectively is a matter of learning fine tool control.

I do the same for bowls and platters, but of course the speed needs to be appropriate for the diameter, mass, and balance. There are other factors, for example how the tool is held, handle supported, tool rest use, and leg/body movement.

JKJ

 

[Kent Reisdorph]

Something is not clear. Does the word “faster” used here refer to the lathe speed or the tool speed?
Assuming by “faster cuts cleaner” the “faster” means a higher RPM:

One of my mantras is turn fast, sand slow. Again, where “fast” refers to lathe speed.
Moving the tool slowly and effectively is a matter of learning fine tool control.

Agree. I don't speed up the lathe for finishing cuts on bowls. Instead, I use a small, sharp gouge and advance it very slowly.

 

[Odie]

I think there are cases where faster cuts cleaner/smoother.

Of course there is, John.......

The point I'm making is there are many cases where rpm is being used as a solution, when sharpness is the real remedy for poor performance.

Also, there are many turners who swear up and down that their tools are sharp......when they could be sharper. Trying to convince them of that is often a difficult proposition.

=o=

 

[Richard Coers]

What the heck does let the wood come to the tool mean? I would suggest that your tips can make you better, but hardly makes you the best. "Best" is used way to much on the internet.

 

[robo hippy]

That "let the wood come to the tool" makes me think of laying the tool on the bench and telling the wood to come..... Almost as bad as a cat. I have been thinking lately, that with roughing cuts, your feed rate is different than your finish cuts. With roughing, you are just getting bulk out of the way, so "clean" doesn't really matter, though your roughing cuts get cleaner as you get more experienced. With finish cuts, they are delicate and your feed rate slows way down. If you use the same feed rate as your roughing cuts, you get more tear out.

Other than that, good posture at the lathe makes every thing easier. Especially if it is a long day. That posture thing really makes a difference.

robo hippy

 

[John K Jordan]

* Spin the blank fast enough to minimize "air gap time" (initial shaping, square/polygonal/odd shapes, etc.)

I know it may seem like a leap, but the “air gap time” obliquely reminds me that the list might include:

* Cut “downhill (relative to grain orientation, with both face grain and end grain pieces)

There is one situation when cutting air that cutting uphill may be helpful. As I describe in one of my documents (not yet posted here) there’s a situation where even cutting downhill can result in chipping on an edge near a corner. When cutting a convex outside/bottom of a shape like this, the gouge motion in the direction of the horizontal arrow can pry chips off the edge as shown in some cases, especially with weak or brittle wood, even with a very sharp tool. In this case I have been successful in taking extremely light cuts in the opposite direction, “uphill” relative to the face grain.



But as for cutting “air” (square, wings, etc), I’m wondering how much difference reducing the “air gap time” would make.

When cutting air, this oft repeated but generally ignored advice might be important:
* Turn off lathe before adjusting the tool rest
(Imagine the disaster of slipping and letting the tool rest contact spinning wings - potentially far worse than contacting a round piece.)

Another one very important to me when I care about the surface (almost all the time!):
* Good lighting of the right type

I heard a demonstrator state once:
* Tighten the chuck in all six places
Depending on the type of chuck (one with internal pinions, etc) and the wood, successively tightening in each socket a few times can take up play and keep the piece more secure. Still good to stop and snug up the chuck occasionally, especially for a large or wet piece.

And for safety:
* Eliminate distractions
(I like to lock the shop door when doing things that might cause injury if I lost concentration - processing log sections at the bandsaw, for example.)

JKJ

 

[hockenbery]

What the heck does let the wood come to the tool mean?

I think it is all about feed rate. That combination of speed and letting the tool work efficiently

Here is a roughing cut Christian Burchard taught me. I sort of hold the tool and let it feed.

Thread 'An easy way to rough turn bowls'

Apr 2, 2024

Many turners don’t enjoy roughing. They get beat up from pointing tools the wrong way and loosing control of the cut.
Many years ago Christian Burchard showed me a very effective pleasant to use cut with the side ground gouge.
Gouge needs around a 60 degree front bevel.

He called it the A frame cut. Two straight arms with the tool as the cross piece.
Rotating the hips cuts a smooth cove.
Sneak up on the first cut swing an arc through air. Move the tool forward a 1/4” between each test cut until you cut.
A 1/4” cut every pass is a good starting point. With practice you can cut the full...

• hockenbery
• Replies: 19
• Forum: Tutorials and Tips

• 

 

[Richard Coers]

I think it is all about feed rate. That combination of speed and letting the tool work efficiently

Here is a roughing cut Christian Burchard taught me. I sort of hold the tool and let it feed.

Thread 'An easy way to rough turn bowls'

Apr 2, 2024

Many turners don’t enjoy roughing. They get beat up from pointing tools the wrong way and loosing control of the cut.
Many years ago Christian Burchard showed me a very effective pleasant to use cut with the side ground gouge.
Gouge needs around a 60 degree front bevel.

He called it the A frame cut. Two straight arms with the tool as the cross piece.
Rotating the hips cuts a smooth cove.
Sneak up on the first cut swing an arc through air. Move the tool forward a 1/4” between each test cut until you cut.
A 1/4” cut every pass is a good starting point. With practice you can cut the full...

• hockenbery
• Replies: 19
• Forum: Tutorials and Tips

• 

It might mean that to him, but I taught a lot of beginners when teaching at Woodcraft. They need real clarity about procedures, if they even can absorb then. I'm sure their eyes would glaze over if I used that tip. It's too close to "don't move the tool"

 

[Jon Rista]

What the heck does let the wood come to the tool mean? I would suggest that your tips can make you better, but hardly makes you the best. "Best" is used way to much on the internet.

It came from a class I watched on youtube, and I guess the meaning is a bit obscure. It means don't force the tool into the wood harshly. Let the rotation of the wood and the sharpness of the tool support the cut.

As for your comment about best, you are overanalyzing that. Best, better, either, or, both, something else...its just a word man. The idea is, what are the tips you've learned with wood turning that help you turn.

 

[Jon Rista]

That "let the wood come to the tool" makes me think of laying the tool on the bench and telling the wood to come..... Almost as bad as a cat. I have been thinking lately, that with roughing cuts, your feed rate is different than your finish cuts. With roughing, you are just getting bulk out of the way, so "clean" doesn't really matter, though your roughing cuts get cleaner as you get more experienced. With finish cuts, they are delicate and your feed rate slows way down. If you use the same feed rate as your roughing cuts, you get more tear out.

Other than that, good posture at the lathe makes every thing easier. Especially if it is a long day. That posture thing really makes a difference.

robo hippy

I guess its an obscure saying. As I responded to Richard, it was something I heard on YT videos of club classes, I think from one particular presenter, that he says to mean don't force your gouge through the wood, let the rotation of the wood and the sharpness of the tool allow the gouge to cut through the wood.

I don't know if I entirely agree with you on roughing. Maybe there is a technique factor to it, but, I try not to rough "roughly" where, I tear out a lot of the fibers of the wood. I have tried it both ways, I've tried to rough fast and dirty, and I've tried to use better techniques to cut cleanly without tearout (which doesn't necessarily mean slow, I don't think its really about slow vs. fast but about how you cut the wood). I HATE tearout. It can often be quite unpredictable, and sometimes result in very deep issues that go far into the blank. I've ruined pieces by quickly roughing them to shape, ignoring tearout, then finding that the tearout was so deep, I had to reduce the size of the bowl, then when I flipped and fast roughed the inside, I had the same problem...and ended up with tearout that couldn't be fixed without over-thinning the bowl.

I guess I would rather, cut without tearout, which may mean being less aggressive and a bit slower, than then have to spend a lot of time later trying to correct that tearout, with finishing cuts, scrapers, whatever it might take. But, its just a little saying, and to each their own.

Regarding posture, good tip.

 

[Jon Rista]

I think it is all about feed rate. That combination of speed and letting the tool work efficiently

Here is a roughing cut Christian Burchard taught me. I sort of hold the tool and let it feed.

Thread 'An easy way to rough turn bowls'

Apr 2, 2024

Many turners don’t enjoy roughing. They get beat up from pointing tools the wrong way and loosing control of the cut.
Many years ago Christian Burchard showed me a very effective pleasant to use cut with the side ground gouge.
Gouge needs around a 60 degree front bevel.

He called it the A frame cut. Two straight arms with the tool as the cross piece.
Rotating the hips cuts a smooth cove.
Sneak up on the first cut swing an arc through air. Move the tool forward a 1/4” between each test cut until you cut.
A 1/4” cut every pass is a good starting point. With practice you can cut the full...

• hockenbery
• Replies: 19
• Forum: Tutorials and Tips

• 

You got it!

 

[Jon Rista]

I know it may seem like a leap, but the “air gap time” obliquely reminds me that the list might include:

“* Cut “downhill” (relative to grain orientation, with both face grain and end grain pieces)

There is one situation when cutting air that cutting uphill may be helpful. As I describe in one of my documents (not yet posted here) there’s a situation where even cutting downhill can result in chipping on an edge near a corner. When cutting a convex outside/bottom of a shape like this, the gouge motion in the direction of the horizontal arrow can pry chips off the edge as shown in some cases, especially with weak or brittle wood, even with a very sharp tool. In this case I have been successful in taking extremely light cuts in the opposite direction, “uphill” relative to the face grain.

View attachment 75147

But as for cutting “air” (square, wings, etc), I’m wondering how much difference reducing the “air gap time” would make.

When cutting air, this oft repeated but generally ignored advice might be important:
* Turn off lathe before adjusting the tool rest
(Imagine the disaster of slipping and letting the tool rest contact spinning wings - potentially far worse than contacting a round piece.)

Another one very important to me when I care about the surface (almost all the time!):
* Good lighting of the right type

I heard a demonstrator state once:
* Tighten the chuck in all six places
Depending on the type of chuck (one with internal pinions, etc) and the wood, successively tightening in each socket a few times can take up play and keep the piece more secure. Still good to stop and snug up the chuck occasionally, especially for a large or wet piece.

And for safety:
* Eliminate distractions
(I like to lock the shop door when doing things that might cause injury if I lost concentration - processing log sections at the bandsaw, for example.)

JKJ

Thanks, John. I think you were the only one who really understood the thread.

Great tips. The tip on cut direction with square (or other oddly shaped) blanks, is excellent. When I turn anything that is not round, for the outside edge, I always cut in from the edge, not out from the wood...otherwise you are just about guaranteed to chip out the edge. Is there a good name for that?

One tip I violate often enough, is "Turn off the lathe before adjusting the tool rest"... Sometimes I adjust with it on.

 

[Jon Rista]

@Odie Thanks for the response. Your thoughts on vibration are interesting. I think there could be more interesting discussion there.


@John K Jordan is correct that I was referring to RPM, not feed rate (which was the "Let the wood come to the tool" comment, which is apparently controversial...meh.) It doesn't mean turn at the fastest speed possible. Its more that, there are a lot of people who insist you shouldn't turn faster than 400-600rpm, and in my experience turning double that, or more, depending on the size of the blank, can lead to significant improvements in both quality of the cut as well as control of the tool. When I did try to turn slow, I really hated the experience, it was all too easy to let the wood move the gouge or skew, especially when roughing. I think it was also Stuart Batty, in a video from many years ago, where he explained that at slower speed the wood will tend to grab the edge of the tool more than at speeds above a certain threshold. His top turning speed is where the surface of the wood is around 40mph, so again, its not about turning with the blank spinning as fast as possible, just not turning with it spinning too slowly.

However, I understand what you are saying about optimizing the RPM to minimize vibration. That is not something I've done explicitly. I think I read something from you, in at least one other thread, maybe more than one, where the kind of metals and fabrication technique used in the manufacture of the lathe, will even affect vibration, and that certain lathes dampen vibration better than others. You got into the consequences of vibration on the quality of the cut at that time, too. At the time, the discussion quickly went over my head, but, I have a Powermatic now which, when I was reading about them when considering the purchase, is apparently cast iron, and I guess cast in such a way to minimize vibration.

I don't know where you can get a vibrometer. I have learned though, to try and set RPM by feel rather than number, and I generally try to. I'll actually have to think more the next time I get out to turn, and see what I'm feeling to set my speed. Maybe I've been intuitively setting the speed to minimize vibration, as I think vibration is what makes turning at not-slow-speeds feel unsafe, and I try to set the speed so my turning feels safe...

I don't know if a deeper discussion on vibrations in turning and how to tune and optimize it out so you have the smoothest turning possible, is a topic best left for another thread? Or maybe there already are threads on that topic from the past? It is an interesting topic for me.

Not that this thread has gone how I had hoped. The idea was to have people share their tips on what can help you be a better turner, but, it seems its just devolved into trivial controversies...so, maybe just let it die.

 

[Jon Rista]

It might mean that to him, but I taught a lot of beginners when teaching at Woodcraft. They need real clarity about procedures, if they even can absorb then. I'm sure their eyes would glaze over if I used that tip. It's too close to "don't move the tool"

*Sigh*

ITs always interesting to see someone drudge up controversy over something relatively trivial...

When I heard it, it was taught as a saying to help you memorize a deeper guideline to turning. I guess I should have put the rest in parentheses or something. In any case, "Let the wood come to the tool" didn't exist in a vacuum. It was stated, then the instructor explained what it meant, sated it again, demonstrated, explained it again, and stated the guideline again. "Let the wood come to the tool" is a lot easier to say, than the full detailed explanation. In other words: Its a mnemonic.




It doesn't seem anyone is really interested in participating in what I had hoped this thread would become. I don't want it to devolve into a bunch of pointless controversy. If that's where its headed, I'd rather just have it closed.

 

[Brian Gustin]

I don't know where you can get a vibrometer.

Odie has a couple posts in these forums describing his home made vibrometer using rubber bands and a laser pointer or bore sight. They can also be called Sirometers - and they are sensitive enough that they can actually read the RPM of the spinning machinery... (I used them a lot in small engine repair before inductive electronic tachs became small enough to be handheld easily) If interested in a Sirometer, just google the term, you'll probably find many versions.

 

[Richard Coers]

I'm sorry the post hasn't gone the way you wanted John. I know your frustration first hand since my almost 4 decades of turning and teaching others is almost always quickly discounted as simply drudging up controversy. It never seems to be considered as help. Good luck to you and your instructor.

 

[Randy Heinemann]

Don't try to hurry and turn like professional or more experienced turners. Unless your goal is to turn as many pieces as you can and trying get a piece done as quickly as possible, there is no reason to try to duplicate the speed of completion of a turned piece seen in a video online or even in person. Videos can be edited to look like it's a faster process than it is. Any professional seen during a class or demo has probably turned many more pieces than you have. Sure he makes it look easy and to do the basics isn't all that hard. To get the result you want, though, you must only move as quickly as your skill and mind work. For me, it's supposed to be relaxing not a race to the finish. That makes turning (in fact any type of woodoworking more enjoyable for those of us who do it just for fun; not for profit.