Small boxes and green wood

[Richard Patrick]

Good day all. I've recently taken to turning small boxes, roughly 3 x3 inches. I'm wondering, given the diminutive size, do the same rules apply to turning green wood as they do when turning larger items like the typical sized bowls many of us turn ? I've recently received a couple of nice blanks ( olive wood and figured walnut). Do I wait it out for drying? Twice turn ? Thanks for any insight.

 

[Dean Center]

This is a conundrum. If you're making endgrain boxes with some version of snuggish lid, you definitely want dry wood. It can take 2-4 years to dry spindle blanks of the size you want. It's possible to rough turn box blanks to speed that process, but then you're locked into the shape and contours you made at the beginning. The best solution is to get a whole bunch of really nice wood so you will always have some dry stock with which to work. Not the easiest or cheapest solution, though.

 

[Jeff Jackson]

I usually rough turn my boxes from green wood the same as one would do for bowls. I rough turn them square but leave plenty of thickness so I'm not stuck with a particular shape. One thing to keep in mind is even with kild dried wood, still needs to be rough turned because the wood will move slightly because of the stresses being released.

 

[Gabriel Hoff]

Rough turning them is fine, but if the wood it just a little wet, you could turn it and let the friction of the tool and the sandpaper dry it for you. I have done this on a couple of boxes, but not with very wet wood.

 

[hockenbery]

received a couple of nice blanks ( olive wood and figured walnut). Do I wait it out for drying? Twice turn

Wood MC will get in equilibrium with its environment over time.

You will want your wood dried to 8-9% MC
That way the lids will continue to turn inside the average home.

Twice turning and drying in a suitable environment will work


If you have high MC, the lids and base if turned with the same grain orientation will warp in the same directions.
Slightly Loose fitting lids will usually be fine. Lids may not turn but will go on and off in the same grain orientation.



This table shows the MC equilibrium in a table of environments. Check you drying room against the chart.

 

[Jim Reynolds]

I finished turned a green wood box and after drying the fit of the lid varied depending on how you twisted the lid on the base. Everything from sloppy to very tight. If that variability is acceptable, then I'd go with one and done.

 

[Dave Bunge]

And if you want to get real analytical, and estimate how much dimensions will change for a given change in wood moisture content, try the Shrinkulator: https://woodbin.com/calcs/shrinkulator/

You enter the wood species, initial moisture content, final moisture content, and initial dimension. It calculates final dimension for both tangential and radial grain direction. Probably more useful for flat woodworking projects.

 

[Rusty Nesmith]

I rough turn my boxes and leave them a little thick. I do not put any green wood sealer on them. I put them together tenon to tenon and tape around with painters tape to hold them together. Then I put them on a shelf to dry.

 

[Richard Coers]

No one gives better advice on boxes than Richard Raffan and he tells you what to do when you start with green wood.

 

[Richard Patrick]

No one gives better advice on boxes than Richard Raffan and he tells you what to do when you start with green wood.

Wow, you just hit me with a “duh” moment…..my old friend Joe ( RIP) had two rules in life;
rule 1 ; call the guy
rule 2 ; read the book
I have Richard Raffan’s book on box making…..why didn’t I think to read the book?

 

[Alan Weinberg]

call the guy

he actually responds to emails very quickly. Delightful and wise gentleman. raffanr@icloud.com.

 

[robo hippy]

From my experience with boxes, and Richard Raffen was a big influence, I don't care how 'dry' your wood is, it will 'adjust' when you remove bulk. So, like Richard, I rough turn all of my boxes before turning them, and hollow out the inside and leave room for movement so I can return them later. For my threaded boxes, I don't go beyond 1 1/2 inch diameter. End grain will still move, and it can move enough so that you may not be able to get the lid off. I did turn a couple of boxes that are in the 3 to 5 inch diameter range. They have moved a little, so if I spin the lid around, I get a little tight/loose/tight/loose as I spin. I figured that since the top and bottom come from the same chunk of wood, they 'should' move at the same rate, and hopefully the lid will still come off, but you may not be able to spin it all the way around.

The extreme version of this are the boxes that Eric Lofstrom makes, and Soren Berger made them also. The fit is about a 3 to 5 second 'drop off' if you pick it up by the lid. A 1 inch tenon and recess. Recess is spot on flat/parallel to the tenon. The tenon is very slightly convex. Eric rough turns his blanks several times over about 6 months. One he had, he would not pass around because just the warmth from people handling it would make the lid not fit properly.

For my larger boxes, I do rough turn them and tape them together. I like about a 1/2 inch tenon and recess, and strive for the 3 second drop. With these, the recess and tenon need to be spot on parallel.

robo hippy