Something your customers don't understand, but you must price your bowls accordingly.

[Mike Novak]

This is an interesting discussion. I’m still relatively new at turning. Since I work mostly with “free” wood, I don’t need to recover materials cost. Since it’s what I do for relaxation I don’t need to consider my time. It could be like catch and release fishing (turn and burn?)

I heard somewhere that an artist should never sell seconds, which kind of fits with Mark’s rules, but not sure any of my pieces fully meet that standard. So do I burn what I have and make better ones? If I sell them, how do I price them? Needs to be high enough to not devalue the craft, but not top dollar either.

I have never sold a piece, but would not mind getting some “applause”.

 

[Dean Center]

I have a hybrid way of pricing bowls. For most of my bowls, it's more a matter of, "What will I let it go for?" I used this mostly on pieces I'm not very attached to. For those pieces that I'm especially proud of, I use height x width, then multiply it by a grade (A, B, C...). If the wood is spectacular and there are no tool marks... If the shape causes a person to just stare at the lines... If the finish is perfect... It gets an A. I post the pricing schedule (but not the price) and tell people to make me an offer. When combined with "What will I let it go for?" it seems to work pretty well.

(Since I've only been turning for a few years, I'd both welcome and be interested in feedback on this approach.)

You only get one chance to make a first impression. If you're selling work with tear out, tool marks, or other flaws, that first impression is going to be "This guy's not very good." Maybe anything less than an A should stay home.

 

[hughie]

What I've come to believe is most people who don't turn on a lathe, have no concept of what size means to the effort required to produce a bowl. When they look at finished bowls, they automatically assume an 12" bowl takes much more effort than an 8" bowl. From my experience, and POV, the difference size makes in the total effort required is very minimal.....but, I consider the selling price of my bowls according to how I have concluded the average person will think.

Of course, size is only one element of of the total equation, but it's something people who don't know what the process involves, consider in a major way. This imprint on their psyche has to be addressed from their POV...and not from mine!

Most new turners will think: Hourly wage x hours, plus cost of materials = selling price......but, I've totally abandoned this concept.

One of the most important parts of the selling price equation is what I consider "artistic value". This, along with cost of materials. Size is a minor element, but most assuredly it is an element that most people consider in a major way......so, it must be included in the overall equation.

Also, the cost of certain woods will vary, depending on the current availability and desirability. There are times where these (mostly exotic) woods are more expensive, depending on the availability. Sometimes, it doesn't matter what you paid for your wood. It's more appropriate to consider the current rate, rather than what you paid years ago for it for an equivalent piece.

Your thoughts considered...

-----odie-----

Absolutely and often equate the machine made production bowl with hand turned art. "I can get one of these made in China" blah blah, It so expensive... I could go on. I never sell to them, and they never intended to buy , just tyre kickers.

 

[hughie]

Thanks, Hughie. Sometime I'd enjoy learning more about the way you finish bowls. They sound beautiful. But, I suppose that would be a topicfor another thread. What I can say is that you're absolutely right about the market you're selling to. If I moved shop to Ashville, NC, my bowls woould double in price. ...If northern Indiana, they'd be halved.

Paul I have something coming up on DIY gouge tips, just gathering my thoughts at present.

 

[Darryn Achall]

This is an interesting discussion. I’m still relatively new at turning. Since I work mostly with “free” wood, I don’t need to recover materials cost. Since it’s what I do for relaxation I don’t need to consider my time. It could be like catch and release fishing (turn and burn?)

I heard somewhere that an artist should never sell seconds, which kind of fits with Mark’s rules, but not sure any of my pieces fully meet that standard. So do I burn what I have and make better ones? If I sell them, how do I price them? Needs to be high enough to not devalue the craft, but not top dollar either.

I have never sold a piece, but would not mind getting some “applause”.

I give seconds away, sell them cheap to acquaintances, put them in the fire pit. Important part is that I don't sign them.

 

[Darryn Achall]

Used to give a lot of thought to time and materials, cost of supplies and utilities but it doesn't work for pricing artistic pieces. My best luck is just in asking my wife what she would pay for this item.

 

[odie]

I give seconds away

Same here......I estimate that I've given over 500 bowls away to the ladies at my church. If they are seconds, I won't sell them, but I do sign them.

-----odie-----

 

[RichColvin]

I’m interested in knowing if anyone has taken the time to capture the costs and revenue for this “hobby income”. If so, what did you find?

 

[Mark Jundanian]

I’m interested in knowing if anyone has taken the time to capture the costs and revenue for this “hobby income”. If so, what did you find?

Well, when you do the math and look at the bottom line... the national debt doesn't actually look so bad.

 

[Brian Gustin]

How to make a million dollars in woodworking: Start with 2 Million dollars.

 

[odie]

If I made $5/hr I'd feel relieved that it wasn't less.

 

[dbonertz]

I have been trying to stay out of this discussion because pricing is an individual thing, however I obviously couldn't. You first need to understand what you are trying to accomplish. Are you going to run a business? Are you trying to earn grocery money? Are you trying to part with what you made so it doesn't lay around and take up space (don't need the money)?

If you are going to run a business you need to now all of your costs so you can price your goods at a profit like Mike said above. Think of folks like Glenn Lucas or Mike Mahoney.

If you are trying to earn grocery money you also need to know costs however maybe not as in-depth as running a business. If you don't you may be investing your grocery money to earn grocery money. So you need to know if that is worth the risk of not selling enough or selling to low.

If you are making and just enjoy the process or enjoy having a booth and visiting with people then sell for whatever you can get or want. If you don't need the money then you are most likely selling to keep your shop and home somewhat clear of everything your making. Just as well make a dollar since not selling is not making anything. You most likely will be selling at a loss but who cares that's not what you're trying to accomplish, a real profit. This is probably the group that most of us are in. Make a little to replenish sand paper, favorite finish or buy a new tool.

Happy turning.

 

[Paul Zimmermann]

This is an interesting discussion. I’m still relatively new at turning. Since I work mostly with “free” wood, I don’t need to recover materials cost. Since it’s what I do for relaxation I don’t need to consider my time. It could be like catch and release fishing (turn and burn?)

I heard somewhere that an artist should never sell seconds, which kind of fits with Mark’s rules, but not sure any of my pieces fully meet that standard. So do I burn what I have and make better ones? If I sell them, how do I price them? Needs to be high enough to not devalue the craft, but not top dollar either.

I have never sold a piece, but would not mind getting some “applause”.

I don't think I'd be quick to burn something you spent time on. While you might not find value in it, someone else may. My suggestion would be that if you don't plan on keeping it, donate to a charity/thrift store. Not only does it help them, but in helping them, you help people in your community. Also... If you are so inclined (and itemize your taxes), you can claim a donation. Just sayin'.

 

[Dave Landers]

Since I work mostly with “free” wood, I don’t need to recover materials cost.

Remember that just because the wood itself is "free" doesn't mean there's no cost. You used your time to find the wood. Used your experience to know if / how / why / when to process it. And the chainsaw and/or bandsaw (blade/chain and fuel), plus transportation (i.e. the main reason I own a pickup rather than a ragtop sports car is to haul wood).

 

[Dave Landers]

I’m interested in knowing if anyone has taken the time to capture the costs and revenue for this “hobby income”. If so, what did you find?

I have been keeping track for the last several years. I track tool and supply purchases, dues for AAW and club, symposium and class fees (even travel/hotel) and balance that vs sales, demos, and other income. Most years I break even, or near enough.

But I starting tracking after I had acquired most of my tools and machines, and no way I've dug out of that hole. The new shop I'm going to have built this year will also be a challenge to offset

 

[Michael Anderson]

I don't think I'd be quick to burn something you spent time on.

Although I like your reasonings for keeping a piece around, I have to disagree with this. I think culling is an important part of the process. Someone once told me that potters have their smashed ceramics pile, and that turners have their fancy firewood. Of course, not everything discarded should be burned (thinking about functional items that someone might actually need). BUT approaching your work with the mindset that “if it’s not good enough, it shouldn’t survive” is a helpful metacognitive strategy for improving the quality of your work overall. Just my opinion though.

 

[Dean Center]

Although I like your reasonings for keeping a piece around, I have to disagree with this. I think culling is an important part of the process. Someone once told me that potters have their smashed ceramics pile, and that turners have their fancy firewood. Of course, not everything discarded should be burned (thinking about functional items that someone might actually need). BUT approaching your work with the mindset that “if it’s not good enough, it shouldn’t survive” is a helpful metacognitive strategy for improving the quality of your work overall. Just my opinion though.

This made me think about the periodic discovery of "Old Masters" paintings found at garage sales, that had been painted over in order to reuse the canvas and save money. Apparently, Rembrandt didn't think everything he made was worthy, either.

How many of our pieces are actually prototypes, or maybe should be considered skill building practice pieces? As mentioned, our family members often find our imperfect work desirable, as would an inexpert public, but IMHO, if you're going to sell your work, each piece should be flawless. After 14 years of working at it, I'm getting close.

 

[Russ Braun]

This made me think about the periodic discovery of "Old Masters" paintings found at garage sales, that had been painted over in order to reuse the canvas and save money. Apparently, Rembrandt didn't think everything he made was worthy, either.

How many of our pieces are actually prototypes, or maybe should be considered skill building practice pieces? As mentioned, our family members often find our imperfect work desirable, as would an inexpert public, but IMHO, if you're going to sell your work, each piece should be flawless. After 14 years of working at it, I'm getting close.

Flawless is a pretty high bar Dean; I might argue for Expert. I’m getting close after 20 yrs, lol!!

 

[robo hippy]

I always considered myself a 'semi pro', which means I made enough money at it to cover my bills and fund my hobby in fairly good fashion. Those who make a 'living' at it, all have signature tools, multiple videos, though most of those go to You Tube now rather than CDs, and travel to put on demonstrations and work shops. That much work would have taken the fun out of it for me. At shows, I did a lot of trading, which is how I got a lot of Christmas presents. You also have to be a good salesman and business man. I am neither. I did have a lot of fun doing it. Now, I only do one show a year, which I think I will continue to do as long as I am physically able. The Oregon Country Fair. Always the most fun show I ever did, and the most profitable show as well. I take a box of my seconds with none being more than $5, and they are gone in about 2 hours.

robo hippy