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Sourcing M2 HSS flat bar for homemade scrapers

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Canisteo, NY
Does anyone have a good source for HSS scraper steel? Looking to make 3-4 NRS and instead of buying a pre-handled expensive scraper I’d like to make my own.

Also, bonus question: I tried to find information on m2 vs 10v as far as scrapers go, they definitely differ for cutting but was wondering if anyone knew of places to observe their differences.

Thanks!
 

Roger Wiegand

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Given the prices I see for stock in small quantities I suspect the best source is to follow the auction sites and local sales for second hand tools from the likes of Hamlet, Sorby, Benjamin's Best, etc, re-shape them to suit your needs and throw away the factory handles to make ones that suit you. Our local used tool shop just had a pile of HSS scrapers and other tools for $10-15 each; I don't think you can buy new bar stock that cheap anywhere.
 
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Local machine shops might be a good source of HSS blanks. I just gave away 40+ pounds of HSS steel that consisted of all sorts of shapes like shear blades which would make good scrapers. And it wasn't so easy to find someone willing to take it all.

You don't necessarily need large pieces to make a scraper. In years past for special tooling we TIG welded HSS steel cutting edges to mild steel shanks. The properties of the HSS steel didn't seem to be affected by the welding.
 
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Joined
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Ebay and Amazon, but I haven't found the blanks to be any cheaper than buying PSI Ben's Best scrapers. I just get the cheapest version of the width/thickness I want and grind to shape. Thickness is listed in the specs, and they are pretty thick. I have a set of Rc hardness files and find the steel to be over Rc 60. Rc 65 doesn't really seem to scratch it either. They come with a tang so no need to grind that, and with a handle if it suits. Finding some hss pieces at the various places others mention is another option. You might consider a scraper tool using a mild steel bar with hss tips that attach with screws (smaller scraps could be shaped into various shapes - the challenge is drilling the hole. I have a carbide drill bit I have used for this)

As to comparisons of different steels - not sure what you mean by "observe", but I have looked for actual controlled tests (vs opinions of turners using them or mfrs claims), and have only found one, attached below. It is dated but the steels haven't changed. The edge holding benefit is there, just not to the advertised level.

Benefit of steel type (edge holding) depends on how the tool is used. @robo hippy uses scrapers to rough with, so longer lasting edges are very important to him. I use other tools for heavy material removal, and use scrapers mostly for minor shape refinement and sheer scraping. M2 works perfectly well for me, and the lower cost allows having more tools of different shape, thickness, etc available for different applications.
 

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  • Tool Wear Testing by Jim Staley.pdf
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Joined
Aug 14, 2007
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Eugene, OR
In my video Scary Scrapers, a point I make is you don't need huge heavy scrapers. 1 inch wide can stall any lathe out there. Keep the tool rest close!

robo hippy
 
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Roanoke, VA
Try these ebay searches:

Wapakoneta Machine Company 3 Big Chief Knives 16​


Wisconsin Knife planer/shaper bladesM2 190mm x 27mm x 8mm, qty=2 ea, sharp, 2e-2​


shaper steel and planer steel from bygone days are really great stuff to make your own knives. I've been doing it for decades. The steel stays sharper far longer than what's being sold as HSS these days.
 
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You could get some dulled planer blades and silver solder onto a steel bar, or screw it on, it can be drilled or rather burned through with carbide drillbits.

I have used pieces screwed onto hollowing tools.

Planer knive.jpg
 
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Erie, PA
I basically use 10V steel and all I have ever said is that it stays sharper longer. I also have and use a Ring Master. The cutter in the Ring Master is the M2 steel that came with it (I also have their next nest grade of steel cutter but it has not been used). I have done more than a few of the Ring Master bowls and am still using the original M2 blades and they are cutting just fine. I have used hard Maple, Cherry, Walnut, Purple Heart and a few others not coming to mind at the moment. The graphs in that study look very similar to the graphs from companies like Crucible based on cutting steel I suppose. If a certain grade of steel stays sharper longer cutting steel it surely is going to stay sharper cutting wood. My favorite tool the Thompson 5/8 V is priced at $100, looking at the Craft Supplies catalog the 5/8 gouges from different companies range fro about $2 less to $20 more. Yes they have wooden handles for the most part but what does it cost you to put a wood handle on a tool? For me 10 V is the best buy for me and with the advent of CBN wheels I will never wear one out.
 

Randy Anderson

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I get HSS blanks from Amazon from time to time. Can find them in a variety of sizes for very reasonable price and shape as you want. No idea if the actual specs live up to the listing but so far I've had very good luck with them.
 
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I got a set of Penn State M2 scrapers and modified them into other tools. At ~$18 a piece, including a rudimentary handle, that seems pretty cheap to me.
 
Joined
Apr 30, 2012
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Iowa
Ebay and Amazon, but I haven't found the blanks to be any cheaper than buying PSI Ben's Best scrapers. I just get the cheapest version of the width/thickness I want and grind to shape. Thickness is listed in the specs, and they are pretty thick. I have a set of Rc hardness files and find the steel to be over Rc 60. Rc 65 doesn't really seem to scratch it either. They come with a tang so no need to grind that, and with a handle if it suits. Finding some hss pieces at the various places others mention is another option. You might consider a scraper tool using a mild steel bar with hss tips that attach with screws (smaller scraps could be shaped into various shapes - the challenge is drilling the hole. I have a carbide drill bit I have used for this)

As to comparisons of different steels - not sure what you mean by "observe", but I have looked for actual controlled tests (vs opinions of turners using them or mfrs claims), and have only found one, attached below. It is dated but the steels haven't changed. The edge holding benefit is there, just not to the advertised level.

Benefit of steel type (edge holding) depends on how the tool is used. @robo hippy uses scrapers to rough with, so longer lasting edges are very important to him. I use other tools for heavy material removal, and use scrapers mostly for minor shape refinement and sheer scraping. M2 works perfectly well for me, and the lower cost allows having more tools of different shape, thickness, etc available for different applications.
Concerning the HSS stock on Amazon, is the stock heat-treated and tempered or is it shipped in an annealed state that will require heat-treating and tempering after the tool is shaped?
 
Joined
May 4, 2022
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Ebay and Amazon, but I haven't found the blanks to be any cheaper than buying PSI Ben's Best scrapers. I just get the cheapest version of the width/thickness I want and grind to shape. Thickness is listed in the specs, and they are pretty thick. I have a set of Rc hardness files and find the steel to be over Rc 60. Rc 65 doesn't really seem to scratch it either. They come with a tang so no need to grind that, and with a handle if it suits. <clip>
On PSI tools. . . as the closet owner of many PSI tools, be really careful of the tool steel. Some of the tool steel in the lathe tools is either not properly hardened and tempered or the quality of steel is not HSS. (I believe that Alan Lacer did a test of these tools and came to a similar conclusion with tests and analysis that us regular folks don't have at our disposal). I do the Dan test with a quality metal file . . . if the metal file doesn't find purchase, the steel is hardened. If you can nick or file the steel, it is not HSS quality tool steel or not hardened & tempered properly. I believe that most of "soft" tools that I've identified from PSI are of round stock (gouges) and most of the scrapers are "hard". Buyer beware.
I've also contemplated taking the "soft" tools to a local foundry which has a hardening furnace and see if they'd be able to try to properly harden and temper them for me. Or, just consider the "soft tools" training props for practicing my sharpening techniques!
(yep, I'm a cheap ol' bugger!)
 
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A cheap-out option: Regrind a skew chisel.
I think that might be classified as criminal tool abuse . . . akin to forced medical procedures on a perfectly functional human being with electroshock therapy! Conquering your enemies with force rather than education and understanding . . .
 
Joined
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Adelaide Hills, Australia
As to comparisons of different steels - not sure what you mean by "observe", but I have looked for actual controlled tests (vs opinions of turners using them or mfrs claims), and have only found one, attached below. It is dated but the steels haven't changed. The edge holding benefit is there, just not to the advertised level.

Benefit of steel type (edge holding) depends on how the tool is used. @robo hippy uses scrapers to rough with, so longer lasting edges are very important to him. I use other tools for heavy material removal, and use scrapers mostly for minor shape refinement and sheer scraping. M2 works perfectly well for me, and the lower cost allows having more tools of different shape, thickness, etc available for different applications.

I have had similar results to those published in that paper posted by Doug.

The results from my testing using bowl gouges made of different metals gave the following results (Tt = Tantung)....

1684639408928.png

Dropping the M2 and including V15, I got the following with heavy scraping cuts on the wings...

1684639876733.png
As Doug points out, it depends what you are doing with the scrapers. Some metals that might not stand up to heavy cuts can take a finer edge and give a very nice finer light finishing scrape or cut and vice versa...

1684640616227.png

1684640763619.png
I haven't included Tungsten Carbide results here as it is in a league and cost category of its own.

M2 is readily available and relatively cheap and is OK time & effort wise for light finishing scaping cuts. For heavier scraping cuts the price and unavailability goes up with the better performing metals for that use.
 
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Feb 28, 2022
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Tampa, FL
I wanted heavy, thick scrapers at a reasonable price. I've found and use 8mm and 10mm thick through Uxcell. For example I've made scrapers from Uxcell

HSS Lathe Tool Bit 10mm x 20mm x 200mm. The blank was $14.95, the handle and ferrule from scrap in the shop. Can't find a scraper that's 10mm thick for that price.

 
Joined
Nov 18, 2012
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Torrance, CA
Does anyone have a good source for HSS scraper steel? Looking to make 3-4 NRS and instead of buying a pre-handled expensive scraper I’d like to make my own.

Also, bonus question: I tried to find information on m2 vs 10v as far as scrapers go, they definitely differ for cutting but was wondering if anyone knew of places to observe their differences.

Thanks!

Im quite happy with this material. I made different profiles on each end; two bars, 4 NRS. They hold an edge nicely.
 
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Sydney Australia
Does anyone have a good source for HSS scraper steel? Looking to make 3-4 NRS and instead of buying a pre-handled expensive scraper I’d like to make my own.

Also, bonus question: I tried to find information on m2 vs 10v as far as scrapers go, they definitely differ for cutting but was wondering if anyone knew of places to observe their differences.

Thanks!
The best source I know are old cold saw blades, they are HSS made in Germany or the Netherlands . The blade when broken or sharpen ed down too small a dia are normally thrown out
 
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If you buy HSS off Amazon chances are you're buying on price. If the material works for you that's great and that's what matters. But in the cutting tool industry the material might be considered junk. There is no information supplied about the alloying composition.

When alloy steels are made a number of elements are used with those elements having a range of percent of composition. For instance, M2 vs m42 steels have different percentages of key elements. The elements vary in cost. To maintain low retail pricing you can bet the more expensive elements are skewed to the low end of their percentage range while the less expensive elements are skewed to the high bend of their percentage range. Some of the elements yield a better performing product as a cutting tool, but in the case of alloys sold on price the emphasis is on price not performance. It should be apparent all steels sold as HSS are not equal in performance.

IMO, the best material to use would come from repurposing name brand cutters where the manufacturer uses the best cutting quality HSS to maintain their reputation in the industries they serve.
 
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You could check at onlinemetals.com to see if they have what you need. They do have a selection of tool steel in various sizes and shapes.
 
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I think that might be classified as criminal tool abuse . . . akin to forced medical procedures on a perfectly functional human being with electroshock therapy! Conquering your enemies with force rather than education and understanding . . .
"mRNA" therapy would do the same thing
 
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