Spongy banjo lock on PM2014

[Spike Cornelius]

Greetings noble wood warriors,
I’m having an issue with the banjo on my pm2014, the locking lever has a spongy feel, when I lock the banjo the lever feels like it has rubber in it. If I don’t hold the lever down for a bit the banjo doesn’t lock. I’ve tried adjusting the bolt under the lock with no improvement. Any ideas about what the course of this might be?
Thanks for any ideas, Spike

 

[Gary Beasley]

Any chance it has some sawdust in an obscure crevice? Best bet, disassemble and clean inspecting for cracks as you go.

 

[Spike Cornelius]

Thanks Gary, I believe that I shall go ahead and dismantle, taking things apart has always been a habit of mine!

 

[Joe Penn]

I have the same problem with mine since I moved into a new place. Oddly, it seems worse in the middle of the lathe bed and it seems better if I lock to the left instead of the right.

Adjusting the bolt on mine didn't help either.

 

[Joe Kaufman]

Looks like the 2014 is similar to the 3520. When I set-up my 3520 I lubricated all the moving components of the banjo and what you described resulted. Removed the lubrication and everything improved. I do use a thin coat of paste wax on the sliding surface to the bed ways.

 

[Jim Morgan]

I'm not sure if "spongy" is the right word, but the banjo on my 2014 does not lock down affirmatively without extra pressure on the lever. I use a ¾ x 8" black pipe nipple slipped over the shift for additional leverage. Probably not the best practice, but it works.

 

[robo hippy]

Hmm, the locking nut on the bottom of the bolt does wear if you adjust it a lot. The one on my AB needs to be tightened every once in a while. Other than that, no clue. Some times chips on the pressure plate can make it a bit loose.

robo hippy

 

[Richard Coers]

Have you ever lubricated the rod and locking bolt ring? Maybe the ring is getting in a little bind and it is not perpendicular when you try to lock it.

 

[Spike Cornelius]

Have you ever lubricated the rod and locking bolt ring? Maybe the ring is getting in a little bind and it is not perpendicular when you try to lock it.

Thanks! This is a possibility, the environment is very humid in my shop and the mechanism is as delivered. I can try my can of gun lube in there and see what happens. Best, Spike

 

[Marvin Jones]

Dean Center brought up a good point in the 'thread?' I started "Lathe Bed Protection", by stating he thought the locking puck and areas under the ways need to stay lube free to insure positive locking. Think if you lubricate under there be sure to test the locking. That said I felt my 3520B needed some design improvement because of the catching it would do when I tried sliding the banjo down the ways. I was concerned because of surface rust appearing under there so started coating the puck and all the parts of the ways with dry graphite spray. Now, my banjo slides smoothly, I no longer get those catches from the puck digging in or whatever was going on under there and I aggressively tested the lock and it holds great. If you read the thread, if that is what you call it, there are some really great lubrication ideas from everyone, just test the hold vigorously, my suggestion.

 

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Just change your banjo to a Oneway banjo, never a spongy or not holding banjo ever again.

The problem with the regular banjos is the round rod in these banjos, they will give and bend a little when you tighten the banjo, several turners did change their banjos to a Oneway banjo, here is a video that shows how te Oneway banjo works and is superior to all the other ones.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xI2uwTZXeRk

 

[Bob Vaughan]

Just change your banjo to a Oneway banjo, never a spongy or not holding banjo ever again.

That is a brilliant design. It addresses that deflection problem perfectly.

 

[Bill Blasic]

My 3520b locks perfectly with little pressure, exactly as it has for the last 17 years.

 

[Joe Kaufman]

My 3520b locks perfectly with little pressure, exactly as it has for the last 17 years.

Bill,
Since your banjo locks perfectly, how about performing a little test to prove or disprove the point that lubrication can be detrimental to banjo clamping action.

Remove the 4 socket head cap screws from the rear of the tool rest support base Index no. 4. Reference PM part list.
Slide the tool support rod, index no. 8 back about an inch and lubricate the front bearing surface with a light coating of grease.
Lubricate a 2-3" section in the middle of the tool support rod with a light coating of grease.
Move the bolt, index no 10, back and forth across the grease to lubricate both parts.
Reassemble and mount on the lathe.
Test locking action about the midpoint of the banjo (tool support assembly).
If you need further testing, rough turn an 8-10" dia. bowl with interrupted cuts. How long does it take before the banjo is loose?

Joe

 

[Michael Edelman]

I had this problem and found the answer on Carl Ford’s web site. No disassembly required.

Carl's New Powermatic 2014 Lathe ⋆ Carl Ford Studio Woodturner

Carl's Powermatic 2014 Lathe setup and REAL WORLD review. Photos, experience, opinion and measurements, for people interested in purchasing a PM 2014 Lathe.

carlford.info

At first I really did not like the PM 2014 banjo. I ran into a BIG problem. The handle would spring back up a little, every time I REALLY pushed the locking handle down to lock the banjo in place. I had to hold the handle down for a few seconds to get it to stay down. Err… Really frustrating.

After a lot head scratching and thought, I decided the problem was there is too much friction between round collar that slides along the round shaft and the round shaft. Red arrow in photo. The collar is a little on the wimpy side. I was deforming it when I pushed down really hard on the locking lever. When I let go, the collar was springing back and rotating the round shaft.

I solved the problem with some white lithium grease. After greasing the round shaft (see photo) the locking level does not spring back up.

 

[odie]

My 3520b locks perfectly with little pressure, exactly as it has for the last 17 years.

Same here with my original Woodfast banjo, and now with a Robust Sweet 16 banjo.....no problems, even though you can feel the shaft flex a little each time you lock it in place. (The main reason I got rid of the Woodfast banjo was to get a better lock up on the tool rests.)

The Oneway banjo is a great design that eliminates any flex in the shaft......but, it's a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

I considered the Oneway banjo when I was shopping for one. I might have purchased a Onewey banjo, if it were available in a dogleg configuration like the Robust banjo has, and my original Woodfast banjo had. That dogleg feature is mighty handy to have, and something I didn't want to lose.


-----odie-----

 

[Spike Cornelius]

I had this problem and found the answer on Carl Ford’s web site. No disassembly required.

Carl's New Powermatic 2014 Lathe ⋆ Carl Ford Studio Woodturner

Carl's Powermatic 2014 Lathe setup and REAL WORLD review. Photos, experience, opinion and measurements, for people interested in purchasing a PM 2014 Lathe.

carlford.info

So would wheel bearing grease work as well?

 

[Marvin Jones]

I'm thinking Odie has the best solution, where I spray graphite spray all over down there, he uses graphite powder, which in my opinion would not attract dust and debris like grease. Of coarse it may be sealed enough to keep trash out.

 

[Bill Blasic]

Bill,
Since your banjo locks perfectly, how about performing a little test to prove or disprove the point that lubrication can be detrimental to banjo clamping action.

Remove the 4 socket head cap screws from the rear of the tool rest support base Index no. 4. Reference PM part list.
Slide the tool support rod, index no. 8 back about an inch and lubricate the front bearing surface with a light coating of grease.
Lubricate a 2-3" section in the middle of the tool support rod with a light coating of grease.
Move the bolt, index no 10, back and forth across the grease to lubricate both parts.
Reassemble and mount on the lathe.
Test locking action about the midpoint of the banjo (tool support assembly).
If you need further testing, rough turn an 8-10" dia. bowl with interrupted cuts. How long does it take before the banjo is loose?

Joe

Joe sorry but I would not tempt fate, If it ain't broke don't fix it.

 

[Bill Blasic]

Carls review is a very well done very thorough review. A good read!

 

[Michael Edelman]

So would wheel bearing grease work as well?

I would guess so, but I’m not a mechanical engineer like Carl. I think the important thing is to use a tenacious grass that will stick and not drip, and that won’t contaminate the wood like silicone lubricants can.

 

[Tim Robertson]

Greetings noble wood warriors,
I’m having an issue with the banjo on my pm2014, the locking lever has a spongy feel, when I lock the banjo the lever feels like it has rubber in it. If I don’t hold the lever down for a bit the banjo doesn’t lock. I’ve tried adjusting the bolt under the lock with no improvement. Any ideas about what the course of this might be?
Thanks for any ideas, Spike

Clean the locking lever rod and hold down. I find on many lathe that issue is not being clean. I clean those parts very well, lightly sand the rod and don’t lubricant anything except both ends where is makes contact with the banjo. In every case when I do that and have proper adjustment of the lock nut it solves the problem. I find this most common on new lathes where the shipping lubricant has not been removed from that area.

 

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Oil it , don't oil it, only graphite, adjust the nut, use long pipe on the handle, smack it with a mallet, etc etc, bragging and more BS, but all of this does not change te reason of a spongy or not holding banjo.

It is the rod going from end to end in these banjos that do bend or flex as you tighten the banjo down, and there is the other thing in all these lathes in trying to make it lighter end les costly (Cheaper) so some are just too light, but al banjo have that problem, some more some less, some acknowledged some denied, but it is there.

It is for that reason that I brought up the way the Oneway banjo is designed and works without relying on a fixing round rod, it is still the best Banjo hands down, like it or not.

 

[hockenbery]

Oneway banjo is designed and works without relying on a fixing round rod, it is still the best Banjo hands down, like it or not

1. Banjo locks and stays locked
2. The tool rest lock is also the best. Lever is at the back not at the side where it interferes with some operation and has to be moved to the other side. Lever can be adjusted to lock straight down…. And no struggling with the spring nut to move the locking handle.
3 The slim-line side to side gives the best positioning of the tool rest for reverse chucking work. Also make one handed movement quick and positive.

When I reverse Chuck with the wide banjos I have to advance the ram in the tailstock several inches to get my small tool rest in position.

 

[Kent Jaffrey]

I might have purchased a Onewey banjo, if it were available in a dogleg configuration like the Robust banjo has, That dogleg feature is mighty handy to have, and something I didn't want to lose.
View attachment 42479

-----odie-----

just out of curiosity Odie, what do you find the benefits of the dogleg to be? I have the same Woodfast lathe as you and find the offset post to sometimes be a hassle when turning smaller objects between centers since you lose some positioning angles due to the extra width.

 

[odie]

just out of curiosity Odie, what do you find the benefits of the dogleg to be? I have the same Woodfast lathe as you and find the offset post to sometimes be a hassle when turning smaller objects between centers since you lose some positioning angles due to the extra width.

Kent.....There are several reasons for my preferring the dogleg banjo, and my reasons may not be valid for everyone.

I use waste blocks with screw center faceplates.....and because of that, there is no reverse turning. My bowls are finished exterior and interior, without changing the mounting. I find the dogleg to be beneficial when reaching around to the headstock side of the bowl.

I am a regular user of the Oneway bowl steady, and the dogleg is helpful to keep the two devices from conflicting under certain conditions.

I have several tool rests with long posts, and a banjo without the dogleg is necessarily at a disadvantage for accommodating these longer posts. (The dogleg allows for longer tool rest posts.)

-----odie-----

 

[Spike Cornelius]

update: I sprayed a little “Lock-Eze” on the rod and now it locks up just dandy.
Best, Spike

 

[Mark Jundanian]

Robust sells a short dog leg that's sometimes useful if you need a little more room. It does make the banjo effectively taller, though.

Tool Rest Dog Leg – Robust Tools

 

[Mark Jundanian]

update: I sprayed a little “Lock-Eze” on the rod and now it locks up just dandy.
Best, Spike

Glad you found a solution.

 

[odie]

Robust sells a short dog leg that's sometimes useful if you need a little more room. It does make the banjo effectively taller, though.

Tool Rest Dog Leg – Robust Tools

I have one of these, and you are correct. It does change the available height requirements of the tool rest. Some tool rests are not usable with it......ironically, some of the Robust tool rests!

-----odie-----

 

[Spike Cornelius]

Update:
after using the “lock-eze” on my banjo the function relapsed. I followed Tim Robertsons advice and cleaned the rod well and now it works properly.

 

[Tim Tucker]

I know some folks here are Oneway banjo fans. But - forgive me....I use the Oneway's at the Carolina Mountain Woodturner's TLC ( Turn & Learn Center ) ...and frankly - I hate the awkward things. I know, I know - I may be in the minority here...but they are just...awkward with the way they are set up. I have checked al 11 of them - and the handle for the locking the tool rest often interferes with the banjo locking handle. Just weird - as compared to the Robust, or Powermatic banjos I have used.

 

[Leo Van Der Loo]

I know some folks here are Oneway banjo fans. But - forgive me....I use the Oneway's at the Carolina Mountain Woodturner's TLC ( Turn & Learn Center ) ...and frankly - I hate the awkward things. I know, I know - I may be in the minority here...but they are just...awkward with the way they are set up. I have checked al 11 of them - and the handle for the locking the tool rest often interferes with the banjo locking handle. Just weird - as compared to the Robust, or Powermatic banjos I have used.

Both handles work in either direction to start off with, further both handles can be easily changed to your liking and as we know the banjo and toolrest are solidly holding unlike most other banjo's
These handles have 8 adjustment positions and as said work in either direction, making it like 16 different positions, but it does not make you like a Oneway product or a fan

 

[hockenbery]

I know some folks here are Oneway banjo fans. But - forgive me....I use the Oneway's at the Carolina Mountain Woodturner's TLC ( Turn & Learn Center ) ...and frankly - I hate the awkward things. I know, I know - I may be in the minority here...but they are just...awkward with the way they are set up. I have checked al 11 of them - and the handle for the locking the tool rest often interferes with the banjo locking handle. Just weird - as compared to the Robust, or Powermatic banjos I have used.

I set the tool rest locking locking handle so that it is straight down when locked. It then rests against the vertical shaft of the banjo it can’t interfere with anything.
My wife set hers to lock at 90 degrees so it sticks out in the air on either side. it is easy to flip but it can be in the way when set up like that.

Next time you go there to turn, get there 5 minutes early take out the 4 screws and rotate the tool rest locking handle so it locks in the straight down position.
It will make the rest of your day more enjoyable.

 

[Tim Tucker]

I set the tool rest locking locking handle so that it is straight down when locked. It then rests against the vertical shaft of the banjo it can’t interfere with anything.
My wife set hers to lock at 90 degrees so it sticks out in the air on either side. it is easy to flip but it can be in the way when set up like that.

Next time you go there to turn, get there 5 minutes early take out the 4 screws and rotate the tool rest locking handle so it locks in the straight down position.
It will make the rest of your day more enjoyable.

Thanks for that tip. Since I did not set up the lathes originally...I was not aware that this is an option for the banjo. But it makes perfect sense.

 

[john lucas]

Yea I'm not a ONeway banjo fan either. seems I barely lock it down and then have to pull like crazy to unlock it. On your Powermatic you have to adjust the nut on the bottom of the banjo until the locking lever locks it at about half way down toward the bed. We had a brand new 2020 this last weekend that had a spongy locking lever and that solution took care of it.

 

[John Tisdale]

Every design has a compromise or two. The Oneway can be awkward at times - I guess I've learned to live with the awkwards.
However, it's critical that it doesn't slip and "that" it's never done. A slip can exact a price I'm not willing to pay.

 

[John Tisdale]

I set the tool rest locking locking handle so that it is straight down when locked. It then rests against the vertical shaft of the banjo it can’t interfere with anything.
My wife set hers to lock at 90 degrees so it sticks out in the air on either side. it is easy to flip but it can be in the way when set up like that.

Next time you go there to turn, get there 5 minutes early take out the 4 screws and rotate the tool rest locking handle so it locks in the straight down position.
It will make the rest of your day more enjoyable.

DUH...Thanks - that was worth the price of admission - one less "awkward" to worry about.

 

[Tim Tucker]

DUH...Thanks - that was worth the price of admission - one less "awkward" to worry about.

Not sure I understand the context of your comment...Can you explain?

 

[odie]

Every design has a compromise or two. The Oneway can be awkward at times - I guess I've learned to live with the awkwards.
However, it's critical that it doesn't slip and "that" it's never done. A slip can exact a price I'm not willing to pay.

Just out of curiosity.....has anyone here had a quality, more traditional functioning banjo that has slipped?

I suppose it's possible, if the main adjustment is incorrect, or if the turner doesn't apply enough pressure to lock it down.....but I personally never have had this particular problem.

I'm seeing a lot of loyalty to the Oneway banjo, and you have to admit that it's an engineering marvel.....but, in practical application, I'm failing to see the advantage over a more traditional method of locking the banjo to the bedways...

I apologize for seemingly being argumentative, but if the problem the Oneway banjo solves is real, then I suppose that needs to be established within the thought processes of the woodturning mentality...

-----odie-----