Spongy banjo lock on PM2014

[hockenbery]

has anyone here had a quality, more traditional functioning banjo that has slipped?

“Quality” ?? ONEWAY, Robust, stubby…. The tool post lock and banjo lock don’t slip.

I have had banjos from other manufactures move and needing to be relocked in demos and classes.
Tool posts slip too.
mini lathes are notorious.
Powermatic, jet, nova, general, woodfast, …. I have had all of these banjos move after they were locked.

The one way banjo locks with a flip of the lever. Don’t even have to push on it.

Whenever I demo I double check the lock on the banjos whenever I reposition them.
screw type tool post locks I tap with a tool handle.
When roughing the vibration from the out of balance work will on occasion cause the banjo lock to loosen after they were confirmed as locked.

Club demo lathes, classroom lathes get used by lots of people. Maintenance is inconsistent. I always check the tailstock and banjo functions before turning on these lathes.

 

[odie]

I have had banjos from other manufactures move and needing to be relocked in demos and classes.
Tool posts slip too.
mini lathes are notorious.
Powermatic, jet, nova, general, woodfast, …. I have had all of these banjos move after they were locked.

Interesting how all these other banjos are slipping for you, Al......and, not once ever for my Northwood, Woodfast and Robust banjos. Maybe there is a reason for your experience, and not a problem with the design of the banjo, itself. There could be an easy explanation for this, if it was a simple need for an adjustment of the holding screw setting......and, now that I think of it, that sounds like a reasonable consideration, since you are indicating lathes that you demoed on, and classes you took....

I'll have to admit the grub screw mechanism for holding the tool post on the Woodfast banjo does have a problem, but this is not what we're discussing here.

-----odie-----

 

[Leo Van Der Loo]

I have a General toolrest sitting here to remind me of double checking the clamping of the banjo and toolrest, it has the 1" thick post broken off, the top restpart of the toolrest twisted and next thing I knew was that piece sitting on top of the lathe, so I had to build a new rest that size.

Yes the banjo on my midi will move and I am very conscious of that, adjusting the nut from the banjo just right, makes it just right only at a certain area of the banjo, for the flexing of the banjo rod changes that in other areas.

The large banjo I build for the outboard setup on my large lathe, I used an extra thick rod and it virtually does not or very little bending, but yes it can move as well, there is just no way around for this type of clamping mech, of the banjo, the old way of using a bold and wrench to tighten the banjo works better in that way only, the price we pay for the simple eccentric clamping is a spongy feeling banjo, unless we get a Oneway banjo that will lock it down solid.

 

[john lucas]

I have never had my Powermatic banjo or tailstock move. The tool rest yes but they changed the design on the 3520C which should stop that. I added a rectangular locking washer to my Delta Midi and that totally stopped the tailstock movement.

 

[odie]

I have never had my Powermatic banjo or tailstock move. The tool rest yes but they changed the design on the 3520C which should stop that. I added a rectangular locking washer to my Delta Midi and that totally stopped the tailstock movement.

Not only you, John......but, as a result of this thread I think a few other turners are asking themselves if their banjo is slipping, or has ever slipped. The "sponginess" being discussed here, is the result of the internal cam rod flexing.....which is perfectly normal.

I only know by the experiences I've had, but I suspect the older universal method of having a cam action along the length of the internal rod is not as problematic with slipping as some claim it is. The solution to this can actually be attributed to other things that can be dealt with easily.

@Leo Van Der Loo .... If you experience a problem with solid lock-up only at a certain point along the bedways, then it's likely the two mating surfaces, bedways to banjo, are not perfectly flat at that point. Also, with the more traditional clamping method of the banjo, the flex is max at the center point of the rod, and progressively has less flex if the clamping action is on either end of the rod.

-----odie-----

 

[John Tisdale]

Not sure I understand the context of your comment...Can you explain?

Tim,
Didn't intend to be vague. The tool-tightening-handle sticking out a 3 o'clock has been a pain-in-the-backside that I've been working around for almost 20-years. To simply rotate the threaded plate 90-degrees is one of those "no-brainers" I wasn't smart enough to think about. And if AAW charged for this forum, that one little suggestion from Hockenberry would have made it a deal.
Being from TX I have a tendency to talk in redneck.

 

[hockenbery]

classes you took....

More in classes when I teach where 6-14 students, depending on the venue, have a lathe.
So lots of opportunities to see problems with lathes.

 

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Not only you, John......but, as a result of this thread I think a few other turners are asking themselves if their banjo is slipping, or has ever slipped. The "sponginess" being discussed here, is the result of the internal cam rod flexing.....which is perfectly normal.

I only know by the experiences I've had, but I suspect the older universal method of having a cam action along the length of the internal rod is not as problematic with slipping as some claim it is. The solution to this can actually be attributed to other things that can be dealt with easily.

@Leo Van Der Loo .... If you experience a problem with solid lock-up only at a certain point along the bedways, then it's likely the two mating surfaces, bedways to banjo, are not perfectly flat at that point. Also, with the more traditional clamping method of the banjo, the flex is max at the center point of the rod, and progressively has less flex if the clamping action is on either end of the rod.

-----odie-----

Not along the bed ways Odie, but at the position of the banjo, at either end it will hold tight say, but in the center it will not hold as good.

And of course turning bowls will get more pressure on the toolrest than if say turning mirror handle spindles where the toolrest and banjo can be kept almost stationary like for the things John L turns.

I'm sure John Tisdale's banjo and toolrest would undergo more pressure than when I'm turning Birdhouse ornaments .

 

[odie]

Not along the bed ways Odie, but at the position of the banjo, at either end it will hold tight say, but in the center it will not hold as good.

OK.....sorry misinterpreting your explanation, Leo.....

If the banjo locks up on each end ok, and not in the middle, then it does indicate that an adjustment of the locking plate nut would solve the issue....

-----odie-----

 

[Tim Tucker]

Not sure I understand the context of your comment...Can you explain?

Tim,
Didn't intend to be vague. The tool-tightening-handle sticking out a 3 o'clock has been a pain-in-the-backside that I've been working around for almost 20-years. To simply rotate the threaded plate 90-degrees is one of those "no-brainers" I wasn't smart enough to think about. And if AAW charged for this forum, that one little suggestion from Hockenberry would have made it a deal.
Being from TX I have a tendency to talk in redneck.

Haha! I see now. Thanks for the assist in visualization. And - you may need a translator with me....I am the product of "oilfield trash".......born in Abilene - and raised everywhere there was oil. ( pronounced "awl" for the uninitiated, and non-Texans...!) And to boot...an Aggie.... Gig Em!

 

[Tim Tucker]

OK.....sorry misinterpreting your explanation, Leo.....

If the banjo locks up on each end ok, and not in the middle, then it does indicate that an adjustment of the locking plate nut would solve the issue....

-----odie-----

Would that symptom indicate a slight sag or wear in the middle of the bed length?......Or that the stresses experienced by the bed during turning are causing some flex? That seems unlikely - knowing the heavy duty construction of the Oneway....

 

[odie]

Would that symptom indicate a slight sag or wear in the middle of the bed length?......Or that the stresses experienced by the bed during turning are causing some flex? That seems unlikely - knowing the heavy duty construction of the Oneway....

You know......I thought that mating of the surfaces at the center of the bedways was what Leo was talking about earlier, but he nixed that thought. I think what we're talking about is simple flex in the cammed rod running the length of the banjo. If it does lock up on on the ends of that rod, then it should be a simple adjustment of the nut to fix it. I suppose there is another possibility.....if the cammed rod is too small a diameter, then the flex might be excessive at the mid point, and therefore preventing a proper adjustment. @Leo Van Der Loo didn't express that an undersized rod was a concern though...

I think that "flex" in the traditional banjos is what Oneway was trying to address with their re-designed banjo mechanism.....and it might be so for some banjos with some manufacturers. Personally, I've never had that problem with the banjos I've used in the past....a little flex is normal, and doesn't prevent a solid lock up if the adjustment is correctly done..... Although, it does seem as though some turners, like Leo and Al, have had exactly this problem...

Surprisingly, not many other turners have weighed in on this issue.....pro, or con...

-----odie-----

 

[Tim Tucker]

Odie - thanks for clarifying. That makes more sense to me - i.e. - the cammed rod being the flex point. I find that my banjo ( Robust AB) is...sensitive to adjustment.

 

[Roger Chandler]

My banjo on my G0800 24x48 does not slip and has been a rock solid lock down since day one of owning it. I was one of the first 4 or 5 people who got the G0766 22x42 when it first came out. The banjo they had made for that unit was the same one they had on the smaller 18" swing G0733, but Shiraz Balolia realized after our comments on another forum that they had the wrong banjo size, so he had a very hefty new banjo fabricated and sent to the owners who got the small one at first. In the mean time, I was not willing to wait on the new one, and purchased a Oneway banjo for it. Both the Oneway and the larger new banjo Grizzly had made for the G0766 have never slipped on me, and lock down rock solid.

I'm not sure why some are having these issues, other than perhaps flex in the steel bar or something in the clamp mechanism, but I find the design of my G0800 banjo and the Oneway are both equally secure, without any slop, flex or movement. Maybe I got lucky? I have not heard of any G0766 owners complain about their banjo not locking down securely either, and I've heard from folks all over the country.

I wonder if some manufacturers are attempting to cut down on the weight, due to shipping costs, or what is up, but banjo's not being secure are not acceptable, IMO.

 

[Gary W Miller]

Yea I'm not a ONeway banjo fan either. seems I barely lock it down and then have to pull like crazy to unlock it. On your Powermatic you have to adjust the nut on the bottom of the banjo until the locking lever locks it at about half way down toward the bed. We had a brand new 2020 this last weekend that had a spongy locking lever and that solution took care of it.

Hi John
Having seen demonstrators complain about having to "pull like crazy" to unlock the banjo, I believe it's a habit thing. I have suggested to a number of turners that it is not necessary to tighten the Oneway Banjo with a "death grip". Some even use lengthened levers to ensure enough pressure on their own lathes. The Oneway lock design is intrinsically more positive and precise - it just doesn't need that kind of pressure. In each case, after trying it with less pressure, the turners I've talked to had to admit that the bano indeed locked positively and it alleviated the need to for excessive pressure.
Cheers.

 

[Leo Van Der Loo]

You know......I thought that mating of the surfaces at the center of the bedways was what Leo was talking about earlier, but he nixed that thought. I think what we're talking about is simple flex in the cammed rod running the length of the banjo. If it does lock up on on the ends of that rod, then it should be a simple adjustment of the nut to fix it. I suppose there is another possibility.....if the cammed rod is too small a diameter, then the flex might be excessive at the mid point, and therefore preventing a proper adjustment. @Leo Van Der Loo didn't express that an undersized rod was a concern though...

I think that "flex" in the traditional banjos is what Oneway was trying to address with their re-designed banjo mechanism.....and it might be so for some banjos with some manufacturers. Personally, I've never had that problem with the banjos I've used in the past....a little flex is normal, and doesn't prevent a solid lock up if the adjustment is correctly done..... Although, it does seem as though some turners, like Leo and Al, have had exactly this problem...

Surprisingly, not many other turners have weighed in on this issue.....pro, or con...

-----odie-----

Odie yes IMO it is the undersized or barely adequate rod being the problem in most cases, however the tools used, like SRG or spindle gouge or skew will not put any or little pressure to the banjo and toolrest, as to shove it over, I also seem to remember that you hold your tools nearly horizontally, again little or no sideway pressure on the banjo-toolrest.

Where I like to angle my gouges as much as possible, and for that reason like to turn outboard where there are no bed ways to interfere with that, just a picture that does show my preferred angle of the gouges when turning outboard, and you can understand there is more push on the banjo toolrest, but even when inboard turning I like to angle the tools.

 

[Tim Tucker]

Leo-
Those are some big pieces. Ever consider turning pens...?

 

[Forrest Forschmiedt]

The banjo on my 1840, over the last few weeks, has started requiring more force on the lever to lock it to the ways. Funny this thread popped up after I started noticing this. I already planned to pull it apart and look for debris and such. Interesting to note that on my 1221 lubricating the rod in the banjo made it slip worse.

 

[odie]

The banjo on my 1840, over the last few weeks, has started requiring more force on the lever to lock it to the ways. Funny this thread popped up after I started noticing this. I already planned to pull it apart and look for debris and such. Interesting to note that on my 1221 lubricating the rod in the banjo made it slip worse.

Forrest...... If you're using oil or grease, it will collect dust, and eventually will bind. I did use oil for a time, so I can tell you that from experience.

I now use powdered graphite on the cammed rod, and bedways. The graphite only lasts a week or two, and has to be re-applied. I turn nearly every day, so those who are week-end warriors might not have to re-apply the graphite as often.

-----odie-----

 

[Marvin Jones]

I was using PB Blaster on my lathe and while I was changing out the VFD I had the belt drive area open and in an effort to clean all the junk out of there I washed it all down past the puck, careful not to spray the belt or pulleys....that is not all I washed down there. I washed the grease out of the bearings (big dummy). I've already replaced the spindle bearings and am waiting on the motor bearings to arrive. Ordered all sealed bearings but still won't be spraying Blaster all over the place anymore.
I really like the graphite on the beds and coat the puke and underside of the ways, have no issues with the banjo locking, the spray graphite works for me.

 

[Garry Kibler]

I had this problem and found the answer on Carl Ford’s web site. No disassembly required.

Carl's New Powermatic 2014 Lathe ⋆ Carl Ford Studio Woodturner

Carl's Powermatic 2014 Lathe setup and REAL WORLD review. Photos, experience, opinion and measurements, for people interested in purchasing a PM 2014 Lathe.

carlford.info

This worked well for me also. Article had some interesting comments on the Oneway banjo, regarding use on the PM2014.