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Strategy advice for a NE forked bowl

Lou Jacobs

Lou Jacobs

Joined
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Baltimore, MD
Website
loujacobswoodturning.com
CB63F421-1A16-4621-B2B4-4BFDDDADA85B.jpegI’m hoping to make a NE bowl from this Osage orange crotch, but I am worried about its potential to crack. I was hoping to have the wings of the bowl sweep up to include a bark edge on all three sections of the crotch. This would necessitate leaving the pith in each wing. Is it inevitable that there will be cracks radiating from the pith? Any suggestions how to keep that from happening? The alternative, I suppose, is to slice the log lengthwise through the pith and just make a three armed bowl but without bark all the way up the ends. That would be OK but not my preference.
 
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I was looking at the piece and thinking that it would not be big enough to use a chainsaw to rip it down the pith line. Maybe 6 inch diameter? If you can rig a sled up for your bandsaw, and if your bandsaw can cut that high, that would be a better bet for a smaller piece like this one. You could also turn it as is and leave the pith in. Some CA glue on the pith that remains should help, though I would expect it to eventually crack there anyway. I would think of it as a decorative piece, and not a daily use piece.

robo hippy
 
I know you want natural edge but to me a crotch gives some great feather and that will be turned out if you turn the whole thing. To get the best feather forget the bark as primary , ripe it and use the center as bottom. if you still want the bark do the same scenario and flatten the bottom , turn a centered bowl leaving 2-3 inches of bark on the outside.
 
I've had a lot of trouble visualizing what you have it mind and why you think it won't work. Unfortunately, I don't have Al Hockenbery's ability to mark up a photo, to show where you might center one. A NE bowl from a crotch is not all that rare and I would assume you can do one from this. (There have to be some in the gallery)

As Gerald mentions, the feather is generally the desirable feature of a crotch, and it is most striking close to the pith, so turning it with the bark as the rim on a fairly shallow bowl often preserves the most of the feather. One option might be to wait for Al to mark up your picture to show where he would put the bowl, or post a picture of one of his NE crotch bowls as an example, to see if that's what you were shooting for.

I have done some 'emerging' bowls, and they are another way to use a crotch and maintain the feather. photo below (not my best work, but it's the one I've got handy) with the bark removed
1640467351364.jpeg
 
Thanks for posting this Dean. That’s quite a striking bowl. Very neat!
As I said (or tried to convey) in my second post, I think I was overthinking the issue, and now that I’ve bisected the log, I think, if my skills don’t fail me, that I’ll be able to do what I wanted. Though it’s 60° here in Baltimore right now - (so much for a white Christmas), we are sitting by the fire and I’m looking forward to putting one or both of these pieces on the lathe tomorrow.
 
This is a little late but here is a cherry crotch bowl without the bark that shows the crotch figure but as you can see it is thin enough to allow the piths to dimple without checking.
9135Bowla.JPG
This next one is a red oak crotch bowl with the bark on and the three piths.
21072Bowl3.JPG
Although it worked with these two woods there is no guarantee that it will work with Osage orange even without the piths
 
Don, those are both spectacular! The red oak bowl was what I was originally envisioning. Yes, too late for this log, but my “donor” has more wood. I may be able to find another suitable piece to attempt a bowl that incorporates the pith with. Is it safe to assume that these were turned green? Any particular precautions other than turning very thin walls? Thanks!
 
Lou Jacobs said:
Don, those are both spectacular! The red oak bowl was what I was originally envisioning. Yes, too late for this log, but my “donor” has more wood. I may be able to find another suitable piece to attempt a bowl that incorporates the pith with. Is it safe to assume that these were turned green? Any particular precautions other than turning very thin walls? Thanks!
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When you leave the pith in it will make a bump as it dries. So it will bump out.
It’s a trade off - interest for form
This a sweet gum bowl pith in.
68F0C2AC-8E56-4687-8E99-F843C2385FAE.jpeg The bump messes up the curve 39C02140-2E43-4E65-BEE6-037A9EBB7C28.jpeg



When lining up the rims line up 2 then get the two lined up parallel to the floor and move them together to line up with the third.

I did a thread in the tips on turning a Ne bowl from a crotch.
The pdf shows how I do the layout to find center to get a heart shape

Naural edge bowl from a crotch

Turning a crotch is fun and produces a heart shaped bowl with a highly figured bottom. I put a video from a demo I did in may on YouTube. These are nice bowls for turners who have done 4-5 natural edge bowls without getting a catch. While best suited for intermediate and advanced beginners...
www.aawforum.org www.aawforum.org

BCC1BDA0-25B2-4856-8674-7FE364262005.jpeg
 
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Al, thanks for these tips and insight. One of the appeals of this craft is that there is a nice long (infinite?) learning curve. As I develop skills in one area, it opens new areas to learn a different set of skills and points of knowledge. I’m enjoying the challenge as I work towards, but never really expect to achieve, total mastery.
 
Lou Jacobs said:
As I develop skills in one area, it opens new areas to learn a different set of skills and points of knowledge. I’m enjoying the challenge as I work towards, but never really expect to achieve, total mastery.
Click to expand...

I think cutting the interrupted rim on the NE is probably the most difficult cut in woodturning

NE bowl from a crotch has been a popular demo.

1. The feather or flame grain in the crotch is thin. When I cut 2 blanks the best grain is on the outside bottom
If I rip an inch to one side I can use the other side of the pith for the tenon and get more flame in the bottom.
I rarely do this. But if one side of the crotch has something I don’t like I will try for more flame on the good side.


2. I mostly do footless bottoms on the crotch bowls. This gives more flame inside. With a shallow curve on the bottom the center bottom warps upward toward the rim. This warpage makes three proud spots on the bottom so the bowls don’t rock.

3. When you do pith in you cut away the flame and have none left in the bottom. Another trade off.
 
Lou Jacobs said:
Don, those are both spectacular! The red oak bowl was what I was originally envisioning. Yes, too late for this log, but my “donor” has more wood. I may be able to find another suitable piece to attempt a bowl that incorporates the pith with. Is it safe to assume that these were turned green? Any particular precautions other than turning very thin walls? Thanks!
Click to expand...
Yes they were turned green, thin and once turned. The most important thing about keeping the bark on is to cut a healthy tree when in it's dormant state and do not allow it to dry before turning. To begin with I like to clear off a flat spot in the waste wood and mount with a wood worm screw then bring up the live center for extra support. The second step is to form the tenon then form the out side of the bowl with the finishing cuts from the center outward then sand with a random orbital sander. The third step is to mount on the tenon and proceed to turn out the inside. The inside turning should be done in steps for 2 reasons the first being that the thin walls will flex without the support of the mass of wood in the center and as you progress farther into the bowl you release stresses that will cause distortion so you cannot go back and expect to maintain a uniform wall thickness.
 
That should turn out to be a very nice set of bowls. I've done a fair amount of Osage and it looks great. I wish it would retain more of the mustard color over time than it does but, it's still a nice and unique color. I don't use face plates, especially on crotch pieces. Since on a thin blank like yours I'll want to preserve as much of the figuring in the bottom, near the pith area, as possible I want the ability to adjust the tilt a bit as I turn the bottom profile and see how the wings and bark form along the rim. With not much room for error on a thin blank I'll turn a tenon first then carefully work around and only take material off the bottom as necessary, not too much, which I can have a tendency to do.
 
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I've done several of the attached designs in walnut and mesquite - no reason why you can't do it in osage orange. Your's would be an axial-grain where my pic shows a radial=grain orientation. To my thinking, the axial would be a more attractive piece.
Don't let the cracks slow you down - just fill with WEST G-Flex
 

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83417D97-99BC-49B8-99F5-CCBC8D3D4A59.jpeg57FA665C-B3BE-47BA-B9DB-B1D36651E9C7.jpeg47C1900D-D6DB-4A00-97C4-CF80684D2334.jpegAll your advice was invaluable! Thanks again! Yes, as was suggested, the figure closer to the center of the crotch is more dramatic than what is closer to the outer rings. I see more dramatic flame on the underside of the bowl. Next time I’ll be more conscious of that and make the bowl deeper. In any event, I’m very pleased and looking forward to further adventures on the learning curve.
 
Lou Jacobs said:
very pleased
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. Deservedly so. Nice heart shape!

You see the what you have for the feather or flame grain when you rip the crotch.

I find using a dovetail Tenon about 3/16 inch tall ( dove tail jaws of course). And footless bottom shows the most grain.

Now to use one of my least favorite cutting tools the mower.
 
One of my best sellers is a Kuoho calabash. There are some made by the ancient Hawaiians that can hold 32 gallons. To make one you need a big crotch and turn it from the entire log. You end up with 3 piths. The illustration was made by my friend John Mydock for an article I wrote for Woodturning Magazine. There is a reason why we have to learn Hawaiian repairs in bowls, LOL
 

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Great looking piece Lou! A couple of things to show more crotch in the bottom - make the bottom ~ more flat and then curve upward near the OD, and/or use a glue block to preserve more of the flame.
 
If u can find or make one of these "jerry's chuck adapter" it might be helpful.....i found it invaluable for This Way series....its a double box
 

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Read post #15 and #23....thin blank....use with Chuck......pull up tail stock
 
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with tail stock it would be reverse jam chuck.....will have nub....sand out
 
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