Ten questions

[Randy Duncan]

1. anyone used Woodcut tool Max4 and if so, what is your impression?

2. i am new to hollowing and looking for recommendations for which brand of tools to buy??

3. how do you set up a drying box and due they really work?

4. what is the best way to dry green turned wood?

5. i am new to turning, what finish should be used for salad bowl?

6. what is the best finish to use on red cedar bowl that will not be used for food grade?

7. i am new to turning and need advise on which hollowing system to buy (like tge ELBO 2 hollowing system or similar)?

8. tried to use Pentacryl several times without success, anyone know the secret to use?

9. how do you fill hairline cracks without staining wood? have used thin CA glue but have trouble getting into hairline cracks.

10. new to turning with limited budget, what are the best value chucks that will last?

 

[Marc Banka]

Especially since you are new to this, stick with simple. Walnut oil is a good finish regardless of your experience.

You might do well to read through the forum, as your questions have been discussed in depth.

 

[John King]

Mike Mahoney Utility Finish Oil. https://bowlmakerinc.com/product-category/mahoneys-finishes/ - John

 

[Michael Nathal]

Captive versus flex hollowing system

I am looking at getting a hollowing system, several models out there, but I also see two main types the captive system like carter and the flex arm like elbow2….any thoughts on pros and cons?

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Hollowing systems

I've noticed two types of hollowing systems. One is the articulating elbow (Trent Bosch, Elbow, Simple Hollowing, etc.). Another is the rectangle captured near the tailstock with a horizontal slot to react the torsion (Oneway, Jamieson). Has anyone used both designs? Could you describe the...

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[Sam Fleisher]

i am new to turning, what finish should be used for salad bowl?

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Howard-Butcher-Block-Conditioner-Clear-Butcher-Block-Oil-Actual-Net-Contents-12-oz/999918606

I use this on some of mine.

 

[Richard Coers]

I think you just broke a record here for the most questions in a half day! LOL

 

[William Rogers]

Most here will tell you the Nova SuperNova is the best value. They are very good chucks for the $$. I use to own about 7 of them. We as turners are somewhat lazy when it comes to changing jaws and instead of buying one chuck and changing jaws we buy a chuck for each set of jaws. That is why I had 7 Nova chucks (I’m lazy). I switched to the Axminster chucks because of changing the jaws does not involve removing screws each time you wanted to change jaws. You buy the jaw slides for each set of jaws and simply crank out one set and in another. I have 4 Axminster chucks, but could easily get by with two. Another thing is I have the O’Donnell jaws that is not available from any other mfg. I use these a lot. Sold all my Nova chucks.

 

[Alan Weinberg]

put a little shellac on first, then then CA, then sand off the shellac.

I asked this once. Most here won’t use it. There is a search function on this board.

Search results for query: Pentacryl

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A lot can be learned using the search function. I’m new also and I read all the other older posts after a search before asking a question since they’ve usually been well answered in the recent past.

I’m about a year in. I recommend no hollowing system till you get more experience with the tools. You can get pretty deep with no hollowing system.

You’ll get 100 answers. Search “red cedar finish” and this is what you get: https://www.aawforum.org/community/search/31341/?q=Red+cedar+finish&o=relevance

Search best value chuck: https://www.aawforum.org/community/search/31342/?q=Best+value+Chuck&o=relevance

Search results for query: Drying green wood

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Search results for query: Woodcut tool max 4

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[JeffSmith]

Full disclosure: I haven’t used their coring tools, but I have both their promount carving stand and a mill drill for pepper mills. They are both well made tools that continue to be used in my shop After many years. When needed, they have been great to deal with (mainly via email) quick to respond and very helpful. Dan Hewitt (sp?), the president, is a member here and checks in now and again. I did read lately that someone has been counterfeiting their coring systems, so, be very careful about making certain you’re dealing with the family-owned/operated business that has been part of the turning community for years.

If the deal looks too good to be true…

 

[hockenbery]

I use waterlox
A durable finish
Food safe when cured
I use 4-6 coats let dry overnight between coats

Walnut oil or Mahoney’s are good choices too

 

[robo hippy]

I have all 3 coring systems. The one I use the most is the McNaughton. I can take a core in about the time it takes me to set up the Oneway and/or the Woodcut. That being said, I would opt for the Woodcut over the Oneway. Mostly this is because of the cutter tips. The Oneway cutters are just not efficient. The McNaughton has a fairly long learning curve.

robo hippy

 

[Kent Reisdorph]

I made mine out of 1" foam insulation. Just duct tape it together. It's 3' x 3'. I haven't used it all that much but it works. Put a 75 watt incandescent bulb inside and you're all set. You can add a PC fan for circulation but it isn't necessary. I added vent holes top and bottom and covered with screen.

 

[robo hippy]

I prefer the Vicmark, but they are the only ones I have used. If you use them a lot, and you probably will, I think there are multiple reasons why many production workers prefer them. I think all of the major manufacturers have very similar qualities. I would never have a knock off one in my shop. They take short cuts.

robo hippy

 

[robo hippy]

I think trying to make a few lidded boxes first is a great way to prepare for doing hollow forms. I never did many of them, so never developed the good eye for form on them, or the good techniques for being efficient with them. Most of the time, I just went with hand held tools for them, and used the McNaughton tools. I do have one of the old Monster articulated arm hollowing tools, and it is good down to about 6 inches for roughing, but gets bouncy if you go deeper than that.

robo hippy

 

[robo hippy]

I prefer the walnut oil from The Doctor's Woodshop. Perhaps because he is also from Oregon. I won't use anything that I can't eat straight out of the can. Some people are very sensitive to the driers in some of the wipe on poly type oils. The walnut oil is heat treated to break down the proteins in the nuts that can cause nut allergy reactions. Most of the 'butcher block' mixes are mineral oil, which does make the wood look nice and 'wet' for a while, but it offers almost no water protection. Same with bees wax.

robo hippy

 

[robo hippy]

I turn green to final thickness. Those bowls are dry in about a week max. The problem with any type of 'speed' drying is the risk of cracking. Wood, like people, are all different, and what works for one wood may not work for another. If you dry too fast, the wood will build up stress, and stress is relieved by cracking. I did find that with madrone, a NW native wood, I get fewer cracks if I get a tree that was harvested when the spring sap is running, which around here is end of February through March.

Randy, you should find the nearest club and attend. All clubs have mentors, and you can get hands on instruction, which is priceless.

robo hippy

 

[Roger Wiegand]

I douse my maple salad bowl in olive oil (and vinegar) on a pretty much daily basis. It continues to look fine, actually getting nicer and nicer as the years go by.

I don't use film forming finishes on utility bowls, they invariably get scratched up and look bad after a while.

 

[Bob Brown]

I turn green to final thickness. Those bowls are dry in about a week max. The problem with any type of 'speed' drying is the risk of cracking. Wood, like people, are all different, and what works for one wood may not work for another. If you dry too fast, the wood will build up stress, and stress is relieved by cracking. I did find that with madrone, a NW native wood, I get fewer cracks if I get a tree that was harvested when the spring sap is running, which around here is end of February through March.

Randy, you should find the nearest club and attend. All clubs have mentors, and you can get hands on instruction, which is priceless.

robo hippy

Didn't a lot of bowl turners used to dry with denatured alcohol?

 

[Kent Reisdorph]

You can't go wrong with this deal.

Nova G3 Chuck 1" x 8 TPI

"For sale in Canada only" The NOVA G3 Woodturning Direct Thread (non-insert) 1″ x 8TPI LH/RH is a 4 Jaw self-centering reversible geared chuck. The strong but lightweight body has less overhang which is perfect for smaller lathe spindles. The small 1.79″

www.kmstools.com

It's $99 Canadian so about $85 US including shipping.

I've bought three of these so no worries about KMS Tools.

 

[Kent Reisdorph]

You can use a cheap spray lacquer to mask the wood, too.

 

[hockenbery]

am new to turning and need advise on which hollowing system to buy (like tge ELBO 2 hollowing system or similar)

The most important feature of a hollow form is the shape. When an HF is in someone’s home people only see the form.
The can’t see the wall thickness or even that it is hollow unless it has voids.
Turning a pleasing shape is an intermediate skill
Turning a great shape is an advanced skill.

If you are at that level. First you need hollowing tools
I like the 3/4” Trent Bosch tools. Straight, bent, and scraper….. I also have the extreme bent but don’t use it often.
Then you need handles or a system.
The Jamieson handle and back rest is one of the easiest to use as well as the most flexible.
You can easily add a laser or video.

There are many options that work well.
The Simon hope is a good system too.

A Bosch stabilizer is good too but for me I prefer holding the hollowing bar and working closer to the form like users of the Jamieson or Simon Hope do.
Standing behind the stabilizer is preferred by others.

 

[Gerald Lawrence]

You have opened a bag and I am sure you will get many answers. It kinda depends on what kind of hollowing, How deep, What lathe you have . Note there are also hand held hollowing as well as deep hollowing rigs. I will go out on a limb and say you are talking about deep hollowing. I have the original Elbo updated with Tim's new laser . The new one has a post to mount to bed ways and there are two sizes for this. Tim has a variety of attachments and I am not sure but I think a 3/4 boring bar. I upgraded my bar to 1 inch and got a club member to turn it down to mount in Elbo. I have not turned with the new Elbo but did have a feel at SWAT and it feels superb. Hang on for reviews of the other 5 to 10 systems.

 

[hockenbery]

i am new to hollowing and looking for recommendations for which brand of tools to buy??
thanks

The most important feature of a hollow form is the shape. When an HF is in someone’s home people only see the form.
The can’t see the wall thickness or even that it is hollow unless it has voids.
Turning a pleasing shape is an intermediate skill
Turning a great shape is an advanced skill.

If you are at that level. First you need hollowing tools
I like the 3/4” Trent Bosch tools. Straight, bent, and scraper….. I also have the extreme bent but don’t use it often.
You have the choice of carbide cutters or HSS. I have both and prefer the HSS because the remove more wood.
Then you need handles or a system.
The Jamieson handle and back rest is one of the easiest to use as well as the most flexible.
You can easily add a laser or video.

There are many options that work well.
The Simon hope is a good system too.

A Bosch stabilizer is good too but for me I prefer holding the hollowing bar and working closer to the form like users of the Jamieson or Simon Hope do.
Standing behind the stabilizer is preferred by others.

 

[Gerald Lawrence]

what is the best way to dry green turned wood?

Lots of ways and Kilns are gaining in popularity. I place it in a bag with chips, open bag every day or two to let out moisture. I weigh every 2 to 3 days . Dump the chips after two weeks and if bag is saturated change bags. I continue this till I get the same weight or near three times. If I am in a hurry I will put in the kiln after about 10 days.

 

[hockenbery]

Thin pieces 3/16 even wall can just go on a shelf. I often dry these in a box just to be safe.
Rinse the piece in the sink, towel dry, put in a box close the flaps. Day 2 open 3 flaps so 1/2 the opening is closed. Day 3 open all flaps, day 4 set on a shelf or sand and finish.

Bowls for returning I dry in paper bags “Publix” work best
For the first 4-5 days I change the damp bags to dry ones if I see any mold I wipe with Clorox
When the bags are dry in the morning I put the bagged bowl on a shelf resting ion the rim.

You may be interested in a thread on working with green wood. It has 3 parts of a demo I do.
Power point on wood movement, turning a bowl to dry from a 1/2 log
Mounting a turning a dried warped bowl

Working with green wood

The August 2015 AAW JOURNAL has great article by David Ellsworth on working with green wood. This is followed by 11 marvelous ways turners turned cracks into features. One of David's themes is that the deck is stacked against newer woodturners successfully working with wet wood. Might be a nice...

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[Richard Coers]

new to turning with limited budget, what are the best value chucks that will last?

Did you see this section of the forum? https://www.aawforum.org/community/forums/getting-started.40/

 

[Lance Mirrer]

Most here will tell you the Nova SuperNova is the best value. They are very good chucks for the $$. I use to own about 7 of them. We as turners are somewhat lazy when it comes to changing jaws and instead of buying one chuck and changing jaws we buy a chuck for each set of jaws. That is why I had 7 Nova chucks (I’m lazy). I switched to the Axminster chucks because of changing the jaws does not involve removing screws each time you wanted to change jaws. You buy the jaw slides for each set of jaws and simply crank out one set and in another. I have 4 Axminster chucks, but could easily get by with two. Another thing is I have the O’Donnell jaws that is not available from any other mfg. I use these a lot. Sold all my Nova chucks.

Will, I believe you can do the same removal with the SuperNova Chucks. Not sure if cheaper to buy extra inserts than a new chuck, but remove one retainer pin and the inserts just screw out.

Also Vicmarc has a jaw set very similar to the Odonnell. If I remember the name I will post here, it not a pic. Name is Long Nose Spigot Jaws

VM 120 Long Nose Spigot Jaws

Check out the deal on VM 120 Long Nose Spigot Jaws at Packard Woodworks: The Woodturner's Source

www.packardwoodworks.com

 

[Lance Mirrer]

I prefer the Vicmark, but they are the only ones I have used. If you use them a lot, and you probably will, I think there are multiple reasons why many production workers prefer them. I think all of the major manufacturers have very similar qualities. I would never have a knock off one in my shop. They take short cuts.

robo hippy

The Vicmarcs are great, but comparatively very heavy. For doing anything small, I like having a few SN in my arsenal.

You can't go wrong with this deal.

Nova G3 Chuck 1" x 8 TPI

"For sale in Canada only" The NOVA G3 Woodturning Direct Thread (non-insert) 1″ x 8TPI LH/RH is a 4 Jaw self-centering reversible geared chuck. The strong but lightweight body has less overhang which is perfect for smaller lathe spindles. The small 1.79″

www.kmstools.com

It's $99 Canadian so about $85 US including shipping.

I've bought three of these so no worries about KMS Tools.

The G3 is a good deal, but KMS also sells the SuperNova 2, which is a better (IMHO) chuck. Specifically larger with a Allen Wrench key rather than a geared one. As a new turner buying my first chuck, I would recommend one of the packages with several jaw sets.

 

[Ron Solfest]

Flexner has a great book on finishes, I've read it a couple times and still go back to it for reference once in a while. Short answer to your question from my experience (YMMV):
- No finish, many have used for hundreds of years. Foodsafe, but doesn't provide any protection and can lead to cracks etc depending on use and care
- Mineral oil is easy, universally acknowledged as food safe, and won't provide any real protection
- Walnut oil is pretty easy, drying time can be an issue sometimes, generally accepted as food safe (albeit some question for allergies, never heard of an actual issue), dries (cures) flat and provides some protection, easy to renew
- Other vegetable oils will not cure and can turn rancid, don't use them as a finish
- Tung oil is generally accepted as food safe, I don't have any experience with it as it's difficult (and expensive) to get real tung oil - read the label, most calling themselves this aren't
- Shellac, foodsafe (used as coatings by food and drug industry) and easy to apply, minimal water protection, I wouldn't recommend for salad bowls

Beyond the above you get into a religious war over food safety. Per Flexner, ALL finishes are food safe once fully cured (generally a month). Most people don't debate eating from plastic plates and silverware which are made using much more caustic and harmful components than wood finishes but for some reason wood finish stirs violent arguments. Below are some I've used, but again YOU need to decide where you stand on this religious war.
- GF used to label some of their finishes as "food safe", their legal beagles got on them a few years ago and they no longer label any finishes food safe. Still, in the past they made a Salad Bowl Finish and Wood Turners Finish that I've used and were labeled food safe. I don't think you can find Salad Bowl Finish anymore, but it behaved more like a little thicker Danish Oil as I recall. WTF can still be found, but no longer labeled food safe - it's water based, dries VERY quickly allowing a half dozen coats to be put on in ~an hour. It is a build finish but has held up very well on some cereal bowls I made ~10yrs ago that have been used fairly often.
- Danish Oil, I only really have experience with Watco brand here, is combined oil and thinned poly. Can be built up with several coats if you want to (I don't so it leaves a fairly flat finish), easy to apply, and to repair, provides some protection (more coats more etc). This is my 'go to' finish for the vast majority of my bowls.
- Wipe On Poly, I only have experience with home made WOP (I use ~50/50 poly and mineral spirits). This behaves similar to DO above but builds and dries faster (provides more gloss) and provides some more durability than DO (again depending on the number of coats).
- Waterlox, labeled as food safe. Behaves similar to DO and WOP but more glossy than DO and imparts less of a yellow tone. Several coats dry to a nice hard finish that can be buffed to look very nice. Much more expensive than DO or homebrew WOP.
- Poly - essentially the same as many many coats of WOP, but harder to apply

I have no experience with lacquer and so won't comment beyond saying it's the 'go to' finish for artistic high gloss pieces but I haven't seen it used much for functional pieces (I did use some Deft brush on lacquer years and years ago that was wonderful to apply but it stunk the whole house out, probably wasn't good for my lungs either).

Lastly I'll echo @Roger Wiegand regarding the admonition against film forming finishes for bowls. Years ago I gave a large bowl to a friend that I'd built up a poly finish on thinking it would be used to hold fruit etc; I saw this bowl after several years of them using it for salads and cutting the salad up in the bowl, it was a mess!

 

[Rusty Nesmith]

I just found out a guy at our club buys Grizzly chucks. He said they are very nice. The one I saw Saturday looked nice. They use the hex like a super nova 2. They are only $99.

 

[Kent Reisdorph]

The Vicmarcs are great, but comparatively very heavy. For doing anything small, I like having a few SN in my arsenal.



The G3 is a good deal, but KMS also sells the SuperNova 2, which is a better (IMHO) chuck. Specifically larger with a Allen Wrench key rather than a geared one. As a new turner buying my first chuck, I would recommend one of the packages with several jaw sets.

My bad! I linked the wrong one. The SuperNova 2 is the one I've bought from them.

 

[Rusty Nesmith]

Reading this leads me to a question I have been thinking about for a while. Will walnut oil cause problems for somebody with a nut allergy after it dries?

 

[Rusty Nesmith]

what is the best way to dry green turned wood?

The best way I have found is to rough turn, anchor seal inside and outside then set on a shelf to dry.

 

[Dean Center]

I used a drying box when making fly rods, and yes they work. There are 2 advantages to them: 1) faster curing of epoxy or drying of wood (epoxy needs a little warmth to properly set up) 2) they keep the flying motes from landing on your fresh finish and making nibs you have to sand out. Don't underestimate the advantages of #2 if you have an old house with lots of air borne debris. As mentioned, an incandescent bulb produces a nice amount of heat for a drying box or kiln. Also as Reed says, faster drying can be bad, as well as good. The box would retain some humidity, and that might reduce cracking chances.

 

[Rusty Nesmith]

More information on size and shape would be a big help.

 

[Rusty Nesmith]

One of the guys at our club turns a lot of cedar. His go to finish is wipe on poly and all of his turnings are beautiful.

 

[Dean Center]

I just found out a guy at our club buys Grizzly chucks. He said they are very nice. The one I saw Saturday looked nice. They use the hex like a super nova 2. They are only $99.

I'm helping a fellow in a tough spot sell all his shop tools. Among his 4 chucks is one that doesn't have a name stamped on it but looks just like a Vicmarc. I believe it is the Grizzly clone. (not a hurricane or PSI) The jaws are rusted on the edges and there's rust on the outer edges of the slides. I can't remember ever seeing a chuck get this rusty just from disuse.

 

[Dave Landers]

Reading this leads me to a question I have been thinking about for a while. Will walnut oil cause problems for somebody with a nut allergy after it dries?

Mike Mahoney claims, about his walnut oil: "The oil has been heat-treated to make the oil dry faster and to remove any possible allergens."

 

[Dave Landers]

This is one of those "ask 10 turners and you'll get 15 answers" sort of questions.

 

[Tom Gall]

I'm helping a fellow in a tough spot sell all his shop tools. Among his 4 chucks is one that doesn't have a name stamped on it but looks just like a Vicmarc. I believe it is the Grizzly clone. (not a hurricane or PSI) The jaws are rusted on the edges and there's rust on the outer edges of the slides. I can't remember ever seeing a chuck get this rusty just from disuse.

I have one of the small Grizzly clones (looked nice and was cheap) - I think I used it once and wasn't impressed. It sits next to 8 or 9 other chucks and it is the only one that is completely rusted. A few years ago I cleaned up the rust (waste of time) - within a few weeks it was rusted even worse than the first time.