Tormek Shaping

[Paul Engel]

Rather than reinventing the wheel, I'd like to get some input from the AAW hive minds. I use a Tormek w/ the DF-250 for sharpening, and it's great. I'm getting experienced enough that I would like to do some shaping on my tools. Rather than get another device, I'd like to use the Tormek. One thought, since I have the original dual grit wheel that came with my Tormek, is to use the truing jig to take it to it's coarsest grit, and using that. I'm not sure if that's a tested approach or if it would just be a waste of time. Thoughts? Anyone doing this with success?

I've also seen some 80-grit CBN wheels that work on the Tormek advertised. One was as low as $185, but the higher quality ones seem to go for $250. The price isn't a real concern. I'm more interested in getting a quality wheel. Anyone go this route?

I'd love to hear recommendations on the best approach to launching my shaping adventure on the Tormek. Thanks!

 

[Brian LaRochelle]

I've been saving up to get a bunch of stuff from this place:

SlipaKniven – Wet Sharpening Accessories

slipakniven.com

Like the double sided bar and 10 inch honing wheel. You might be interested in the 80 grit cbn wheel:

CBN wheel 80 grit 250 mm – SlipaKniven

slipakniven.com

I also have, and really suggest investing in an 8 inch low speed grinder for shaping and get jigs/attachments for your tormek, I had the first and it was great, but i prefer the second:

BGM-100 Bench Grinder Mounting Set

tormek.com

OWC-1 Tormek Converter

tormek.com

 

[Jim Reynolds]

Paul,

My bona fides. I have a T8, a OWC-1 on a 8" Rikon low speed grinder with CBN wheels and another 8" Rikon low speed grinder with BGM-100 and AlOx wheels.

I'm assuming that you have only a few tools you want to reshape. If this is the case, then I sort of second Brian's recommendation above, but rather than buying an 8" low speed grinder you have the advantage of having access to Greg Ellyson. I am virtually certain that he has a Wolverine setup and that he would be willing to let you reshape some tools. In that case all, you need in addition is a OWC-1 for $21, if he doesn't have one already.

If you don't want to impose on Greg and you want to use your Tormek, then I would consult the Tormek Grinding Wheel Guide to inform to grinding wheel purchase decision.

Good luck! If you do see Greg, please give him my best regards. Thank you.

 

[Doug Freeman]

I have a tormek knockoff and low speed bench grinder with 46 & 80 gr wheels with bgm-100. I also have some grinding experience in industry and a mech engineering degree. Using a tormek for shaping is futile, unless you dont mind spending an entire day on one tool. The very low speed and very slow material removal that makes a wet grinder great for resharpening is precisely why one is not suited for shaping. The wheel is not going to matter at such slow speed.

You will likely spend as much or more on a different tormek wheel as a low speed bench grinder with a coarse wheel, and then discover how slow the tormek still is.

The recommendation to find someone with a bench grinder (3600 rpm works fine for shaping) and appropriate wheel is spot on. With 3600 rpm just be lighter on the touch, though bluing hss doesnt ruin hardness.

Which tormek bench grinder tool bar holder to get depends on whether you get a grinder and/or you borrow grinder time. If a friend has the wolverine setup, go that way. If you get a grinder, get the bgm-100 vs purchasing a wolverine base and arm.

 

[John K Jordan]

I've had two Tormeks at the same time (10" wheels), with different wheels in the addition to bench grinders. Gave one away, kept the other, have a 1200 grit CBN wheel on it.

I'd hate to use the Tormek for extensive shaping even with the diamond wheel, although it might be ok for minor adjustment, but from my experience with the std water wheel it will be slow regardless of how it's dressed.

The biggest question I have is how much shaping you want to do. If doing minor shaping it seems easy enough to swap the wheels and try.

When I say "extensive shaping" I'm referring to grinds like these NRS. I started with thick Thompson scrapers with a square ends. Even with a 60 grit wheel on a 1/2 speed bench grinder this much shaping takes a some time, much of it in the long grind down the side.


This is some of what I call "minor shaping" to make NRS.

I've done a lot of other reshaping too from other NRS to skews and and made custom special purpose tools. Some are small, 3/8"-1/4" wide or less, some round - I might try smaller tools on the Tormek standard wheel if I had no other options.

I haven't heard of the 80 grit CBN for the Tormek. Seems to me the slow speed of the Tormek would still make extensive reshaping a chore compared a bench grinder. Minor shaping, might be worth trying.

But if you don't have room to add a bench grinder with a coarse grit wheel, either CBN or conventional ALox, I like the idea of getting help from someone else. I've had several people bring tools to my shop for rework. For a long time I used an 80 grit wheel on the bench grinder but the switch to 60 grit really speeds up heavy shaping. And after years of use it seems impossible to wear out either the 60 or 80 grit CBN. (I bought all my wheels from Ken Rizza/Woodturners Wonders. I hope the new owner can also supply coarse wheels although the price might be higher now.)

JKJ

 

[hockenbery]

Rather than reinventing the wheel, I'd like to get some input from the AAW hive minds.

The coarse grit from the stone is something like 250. Pretty slow going for reshaping. For 1 or 2 tools and you have the time and patience it will do the reshaping. The tormek is slow with fine grit. You want faster with coarse grit.

An alternative you may have available or can easily make is using a belt sander or a disc sander to get a rough shape before moving to the tormek. You can make a sanding disc with MDF to mount on your lathe. You can make a useable platform by gluing a tool post diameter dowel into short piece of 1x3. I would run the lathe in reverse to keep the cutting edge of the tool from ripping the paper

 

[robo hippy]

For me, even though I am pretty much settled on my tool grinds, some times I need to reshape a tool. For rough stuff, I go to the belt sander. If you have a high speed grinder with 36 grit stone, that works well also. For the Tormek, it moves so slowly it isn't really fit for major surgery..... Even with an 80 grit wheel. You might be able to go to a saw shop or other sharpening services and explain to them what you are wanting to do. They will have the machines for it.

robo hippy

 

[RichColvin]

Paul,

These are the options I have used:

1. Use the Tormek SG-250 original grindstone.
   • Due to the heavy usage when doing this, the grinding activity will leave a very irregular surface on the grindstone, and you will need to re-true the grindstone once finished.
   • As Doug noted, it will take a while. But, if you are a retiree with more time than $, this is certainly an option.
2. Use the Tormek SB-250 blackstone silicone.
   • The SB-250 was designed to sharpen harder metals like HSS or carbides, but is not the greatest for reshaping.
   • And, as Doug noted, it will take a while.
3. Use the Tormek DC-250 diamond wheel course.
   • This works, and is a good option if the reshaping is not significant. Some re-grinding I've found to be onerous when using this grinding wheel include:
     • Reshaping a new bowl gouge to get the Ellsworth grind.
     • Reshaping carbide scrapers to be negative rake.
   • The DC-250 leaves a pretty rough edge, but the other grinding wheels can smooth this out.
4. Use a 10", very low grit grinding wheel on your Tormek (one like this: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00JW1UXPU?ref_=ppx_hzsearch_conn_dt_b_fed_asin_title_4).
   • This can work and it provides the benefit of keeping the detritus in the water.
   • It allows you to use your Tormek jigs on the machine, leaving a surface similar to the one you will achieve when sharpening.
   • It is not as fast as option 5.
   • You will need a way to keep the 1" wide grinding wheel held on the Tormek which is set for the 50mm wide (~2") grinding wheels.
5. Use a bench grinder with the Tormek Bench Grinder Mounting Set (BGM-100).
   • This is a very good option as you can use the Tormek jig for the shaping of the tool, and then when you bring it back to sharpen the tool on the Tormek, the grind will be similar to what is provided by the Tormek.
   • You need to control the temperature when doing this, especially if using a friable grinding wheel (vs. a CBN wheel): don't let the tool get too hot.
     • If the tool has a carbide cutting edge, be careful about cooling it. Dunking a hot carbide tool into water will probably crack the carbide.
   • This is my preferred approach.
   • I have not used the Tormek Converter (OWC-1) for the Wolverine system. I understand that it is similar to the BGM-100.

I hope that helps.

Kind regards,
Rich

 

[Kent Reisdorph]

I've had two Tormeks at the same time (10" wheels), with different wheels in the addition to bench grinders. Gave one away, kept the other, have a 1200 grit CBN wheel on it.

I'd hate to use the Tormek for extensive shaping even with the diamond wheel, although it might be ok for minor adjustment, but from my experience with the std water wheel it will be slow regardless of how it's dressed.

The biggest question I have is how much shaping you want to do. If doing minor shaping it seems easy enough to swap the wheels and try.

When I say "extensive shaping" I'm referring to grinds like these NRS. I started with thick Thompson scrapers with a square ends. Even with a 60 grit wheel on a 1/2 speed bench grinder this much shaping takes a some time, much of it in the long grind down the side.
View attachment 79625

This is some of what I call "minor shaping" to make NRS.
View attachment 79626
I've done a lot of other reshaping too from other NRS to skews and and made custom special purpose tools. Some are small, 3/8"-1/4" wide or less, some round - I might try smaller tools on the Tormek standard wheel if I had no other options.

I haven't heard of the 80 grit CBN for the Tormek. Seems to me the slow speed of the Tormek would still make extensive reshaping a chore compared a bench grinder. Minor shaping, might be worth trying.

But if you don't have room to add a bench grinder with a coarse grit wheel, either CBN or conventional ALox, I like the idea of getting help from someone else. I've had several people bring tools to my shop for rework. For a long time I used an 80 grit wheel on the bench grinder but the switch to 60 grit really speeds up heavy shaping. And after years of use it seems impossible to wear out either the 60 or 80 grit CBN. (I bought all my wheels from Ken Rizza/Woodturners Wonders. I hope the new owner can also supply coarse wheels although the price might be higher now.)

JKJ

John, what's your included angle? Do you think there's any advantage to having different angles top and bottom? For example, you could grind top and bottom to 45 degrees, or top at 65 and bottom at 25. Does it matter? It's a hell of a lot easier to sharpen them if the angle is the same top and bottom. I'm about to regrind a couple of scrapers to NRS is why I'm asking.

 

[RichColvin]

Kent,

This is what I've gathered regarding NRSes: https://www.sharpeninghandbook.info/WW-Scraper-NRS.html.

I use 45° (22 ½° on both top and bottom), based on Tom Wirsig's recommendation. I too found that having the top and bottom the same is a real time saver.

 

[Fred Hargis]

I've tried using my Tormek for shaping and it works...if you have the hours it takes to do so. I'd try to come up with a plan B. Somone above mentioned, it's a little hard on the Tormek wheel, in terms of wear.