torn end grain

[Rich]

Please help - this problem is driving me insane.

Is there any way to eliminate torn end grain especially in kiln dried lumber?

I have tried sharpening my tools more frequently, Holding them at different

angles, hand sanding and power sanding. Nothing seems to work. It seems to

be slightly less prevelant in naturally dried or green blanks.

Thanks for your help.

Rich

 

[Tony Reynolds]

Hi Rich,
Sure. It depends on the wood, some wood suffers tear out worse than others. You didn't say what type of tool you're using but with a bowl gouge you can use a shear scraping cut or a shear slicing cut ( some folks call it a tangent cut). These are fine finishing cuts that don't take off much wood and leave a fine finish. I'm not going to try and explain it here in words as I think that would only confuse you. I can do it, just not put it into a good verbal description. Maybe someone here can better explain. If you have the means, David Ellsworth bowl gouge video and Bill Grumbine's basic bowl video are very good at showing how these and other cuts are made. Maybe you have a local turning club you can join and someone can show you as well.

Tony

 

[Rich]

Hi Tony

I have been using a bowl gouge, a 1 inch side scraper and a 1 inch round nose scraper all heavy duty and made by Sorby. I have tried to finish turn with a very light touch but that does not seem to work very well. I recently purchased Artisan sanding pads and discs: the kind that fits in a high speed drill, but that was a disappointment. I will look for the videos that you mentioned. Maby someone can recommend a club in the New Jersey Middlesex County area.

Thanks for the feed back
Rich

 

[Mike Cunningham]

You want a Rainbow cut

Start the bowl gouge into the interior in the normal fashion for cutting. As you enter and cut begin rolling the flute upward, keep the bevel rubbing, cutting right near the tip and the handle down and away from you as you get nearer to the center, raise the handle and cut down toward the center finishing, hence the rainbow name. I've often used this cut but just recently found that some turners refer to it as a rainbow because of the arc. It's the tangent cut that Tony mentioned and I learned it a few years back from Bill Grumbine. He's in Kutztown Pa. near Allentown, probably not too distant from you and would be well worth your time to talk to him about lessons. I hope this is clear and your able to understand it.

I'm the president of Cape Atlantic woodturners south of you, up north is New Jersey Woodturners and between us is Atlantic Shore turners. Dennis Fuge, president of NJ Woodturners is another good instructor. Check the AAW website for the list of NJ clubs.

Hope this helped,

Mike Cunningham

 

[MichaelMouse]

The answer is to cut it with less force than is required to crush it. I'm a tapered shaving guy myself. I want to sneak out of the cut I made, not bust out. That means I want my advancing cutting edge to do the deep and dirty early, and the slick and sneaky at the end. Leading portion of the edge takes the deep and broad, even to scraping broad, cut, and as the natural curve of the gouge comes out to vertical on the convex surface or approaches parallel on concave, the trailing edge of the shaving is feathered and thin.

Requires control. The signature line I use is all about control, so glance down there. I can't get and maintain the control as easily with "bowl" gouges, though they can remove a lot of wood quickly. That's why I've taken a technological step backward to the forged gouge with its gentle dual curve form. I suggest you get as close to it as possible with a continuous-angle continuous curve grind on one of the newer kinds of cylindrical gouges where they abrade away the top portion so the thickness of the material at the bottom is more uniform. This gouge can be fully supported on a close rest, with the operator comfortably vertical, and lays a lot of bevel along the cut for better control.

You might also look at what I keep posting pointers to if you have broadband. There are several clips of cuts being made in accordance with the line below.

 

[dkulze]

Hey Rich,

I think that one of the more important aspects in eliminating or reducing your end grain tear out is going to be where you live.

More specifically, where's you closest AAW turning club or a member of this forum. If a member of this forum, my guess is you'll get an offer for some mentoring pretty quick. If a club, there's the inconvenient necessity to pick up the phone and call the club president but, past that, you should get similar results.

What you'll find is that a few hours of hands-on will likely answer all your questions and sharply improve your turning. Worked for me, now I provide it for others.

Good luck,
Dietrich

P.S.(if you're in MA, we can definitely work something out)

 

[mr bill]

Rich, Are you dealing with endgrain tearout on a bowl, (inside/outside) or inside of a box? And also, what kind of wood are you turning. I think we can get more meanful answers if we know more details....

MB

 

[Rich]

Hi MB

To answer your question the end grain tear out is on both the inside and outside of the bowl. The problem is less prevelent in boxes, The smaller the piece the less the tearout. The wood I am using is ash, white oak, sepele, purple heart Honduras Rosewood, and walnut, most all kiln dried.
I recently brought up the New Jersey Woodturners web site and will try to join the club, they can probibly help me.

Thanks
Rich

 

[dkulze]

worth not waiting till a meeting, Rich. Give a call to the club pres or VP and ask about some mentoring.

Dietrich

 

[DeanGThomas]

It sounds like an issue of not cutting the wood. That's not the end-all answer, but when you're talking about multiple species, some of which cut pretty darned clean normally, it sounds like a technique issue, using sharp tools the right way. If you've got tear out on both inside and outside on that many species, it has to be (sorry for this) you. Unless of course you've managed to pick up the oddlot ends from everyone else's reject bin...

We had a GREAT technical demo this month in our chapter meeting. It was all about end-grain hollowing. The demonstrator's point was that if you want a smooth surface, you have to defeat the end grain problem. As many folks do, he likened the end grain of wood as being a bundle of straws, fairly tightly held in place. If you drag something across those rough straw ends, some of them are going to catch on the tool edge and just yank the straw out of the bundle, causing a bigger area that is "catchable". Tear out.

One solution is to drill into the middle of the endgrain and then use a good sharp tool to cut across the bottom, slicing them straws on their sides, not dragging across the tops of them. Easier to show that speak, sorry.

Have you tried a hook tool or ring tool for cutting the insides? If you're using a scraper, have you made sure that you have a proper burr on the business end? Have you deliberately tried it WITHOUT that burr?

One man's opinions, YMMV. Keep trying, and do get in touch with your local chapter for help in solving your problems. Someone watching is worth MILLIONS of words. And certainly more than our blind opinions. 8^)

 

[Joe Greiner]

The mouse and the dean know their wood. Some woods tolerate more aggressive cuts better than others, but almost all wood loves to be sliced. Just about mandatory on stumps and burls where the grain goes every which way. I've found that even a parting tool leaves a better surface if slightly rotated. The other key is to take very thin slices in problem areas.

JG

 

[Richard Preston]

Tear out - keep bevel slightly in touch.

The answer is to cut it with less force than is required to crush it. I'm a tapered shaving guy myself. I want to sneak out of the cut I made, not bust out. That means I want my advancing cutting edge to do the deep and dirty early, and the slick and sneaky at the end. Leading portion of the edge takes the deep and broad, even to scraping broad, cut, and as the natural curve of the gouge comes out to vertical on the convex surface or approaches parallel on concave, the trailing edge of the shaving is feathered and thin.

SNIP

This is a good point - don't be too rough and have some bevel rubbing but not necessarily all of it. Perhaps a secondary bevel will help this? Try examining a bowl when it's about 1/2" from final. If the grain is torn then, you are chasing a problem already in existence. Sanding is the last choice for a remedy because that's like giving up on technique and settling for abrasion. Best luck.