Trying to make a bandsaw decision - modify or replace?

[Lou Jacobs]

I’ve been struggling with a decision on and off for the past several years, and have been reading bandsaw threads here with interest. I’ve had a dependable Delta 14” saw for the past 30 or so years. It does just about everything I want except cut blanks that are thicker than 6”. When the blade is sharp, it performs great and I’ve had no complaints. It only has a 1/2 hp motor and I’ve been debating both adding the riser block to increase cutting capacity to 12” and upgrading to a 1 or even 1 1/2 hp motor. If I go that route, I’ll probably put about $600 +/- into the saw. On the other hand, it looks like I could purchase a new larger saw for $1,400 or so. I’m sure I could recoup some of that by selling the Delta, but I’d hate to let it go. I see folks here I respect (Dave Landers recently, for one) who have sounded happy with their improved Delta machines. I suppose I’m looking for confirmation that sticking with the Delta machine is a wise route to take. For those who have modified their machines, is 1 hp sufficient, or is there a noticeable leap in performance by going to 1 1/2? Opinions?

 

[Roger Wiegand]

Shortly after I got my 14" Delta saw many decades ago I burned up the little motor it came with while resawing something, at that point I put in a 1.5 hp motor, the riser block, and replaced the guides with Carter bearings. That saw served me adequately for the next three decades. I recently acquired a Centauro/MiniMax 20" saw with a 4.9 hp motor that now does all of the heavy lifting-- wish I'd gotten it years ago! I'm keeping the 14" Delta with a skinny blade on it for curved work or when I need a different blade. It's a delight to have both saws in the shop and only rarely have to swap a blade.

I expect 1 hp is more than adequate for most needs. I don't notice much difference in price when hunting for a used motor (no reason to put a new motor in a used saw), so I'd take what I can find in the 1 to 2 hp range, which ought to be $10 to 50. I don't know of any down side to going larger. I think you definitely want a bigger motor if you add the riser block and hope to cut with its full height. You might even want to consider a 3 phase motor and VFD if you'd like to be able to easily slow it down for cutting metal.

 

[Dennis Weiner]

I purchased the 1 HP Jet 14" saw 25 years ago and added the 6" riser block. Added a legacy Woodpecker fence system, and bought some Carter guides and improvements. I probably have about $1500.00 invested. In retrospect, I took a machine that was designed for lite cutting and demanded more performance. Experience has taught me that I made an error in judgment no doubt. I have gotten by with it, but I did have to replace the motor and the Carter guides. There are many machines that are similar to Delta and Jet on the market that have the same design flaws and weaknesses which Carter capitalized on over the years. I vowed I would not spend one more penny on my bandsaw. I will replace it one day with one that is structurally sound with the right-sized table and appropriately powered for what I do.

 

[Mark Jundanian]

I have no experience with riser block upgrades to share with you, but I will point out that a new saw may come with other benefits to factor into your decision. For example, a larger table.

 

[Dave Landers]

My experience is similar to Roger's - I upgraded my Delta 14" with riser and 1 HP and better guides shortly after I bought it. Had it for over 30 years and it handled everything I wanted it to do.

The upgrade I didn't do till about 5 years ago (should have done much sooner) was to enlarge the table - it's just way too small to safely cut larger blanks that the riser will let you attempt.

That extension table is just spare wood I had around, and was quick to throw together. It bolts on where the fence guides go (I very rarely used the fence), and has a brace down to the saw stand. I do have to remove it to change the blade, but a bit of clever design might be able to get around that.

Another consideration is - if you buy a bigger saw (new or used), and have the space and money to keep the old one, you'll have one saw for green blanks and another for a finer detail blade. So nice not to have to switch blades (and re-adjust guides, etc) for one or two cuts. I almost sold my 14" after getting the bigger saw - so glad I didn't.

 

[Tom Albrecht]

I taught shop classes for many years and the Delta family of tools was pretty standard in most school shops. And they were adequate. I had a 14" Delta with a riser block and a 1hp motor in my own shop for many years. I eventually found it too limiting in power, & table size.
A few years ago I upgraded to an 18" saw with a 3 hp motor and a foot brake and I wish I hadn't waited so long. It's not that I do a whole lot of big pieces, but when I do, whether it's re-sawing or a cutting up a big green log, there's no hassle.

 

[Doug Rasmussen]

You gotta love those old Delta 14's. Way back when I took a couple year break from engineering I was doing production woodworking. I built a power feed unit for my 14" Delta along with a bigger motor. That setup ripped thin slats from 2" eastern hard maple. But that was before there were so many options in band saws, the 20" Delta with a much larger footprint was about it.

At that time the offshore Delta 14" clones began flooding the market. Delta Rockwell was suing to stop the copies. I remember reading of a court settlement requiring the clones to have the current squarish blade guards to differentiate them from the full round top/bottom guards of the classic Delta's. Rockwell began cheapening the 14's to be price competitive. One quick way to tell if a saw is pre-cheapening is the upper blade guide adjustment shaft, if it's hex the saw is older quality. The later enclosed cheaper stands were rattling echo chambers too.

A couple years ago I found a 10" 1940 Delta bandsaw (not to be confused with the later 10" saw) . It was an exact scaled down copy of the 14". Sold it to a Delta collector. Now instead of a 10" Unisaw I have a hard to find 1950 8" "baby" Unisaw which doesn't take up as much space. I've always liked old Delta stuff.

 

[Richard Coers]

You sure could buy a lot of blades for that $800 difference you have in you calculations. If you don't need more throat depth, modify the Delta is my vote. There will be some point in your turning work when you start going smaller. I've turned 18" bowls for quite a few years, now I'm going to smaller, more intricate work.

 

[robo hippy]

My first bandsaw is a PM 14 inch saw, I think, and it has a 3/4 hp motor and cuts 6 inches high. I use it for cutting circles. I did upgrade to a Laguna 16HD, 4.5 hp, and it cuts 16 inches high. That was a huge time saver. It required a 30 amp circuit, but it was worth every penny, and paid for itself easily the first 6 months I had it. Having parallel sides to the blank when you start is a huge time saver, and I do still sell some of my work.

robo hippy

 

[Larry Copas]

Some years ago I made a lot of tweaks to my 14" Delta. Louis Iturra Design had a catalog devoted to bandsaws and was the bandsaw guru of the day. 1-1/2 HP motor, riser block, increased the blade speed, and I can't remember all.

What a waste, it was still a 14" bandsaw with a small table, and didn't really have the backbone to tension the wider bands for re-saw work.

I assume you have the older Delta with the tube frame. Its better than the new model with the skeleton frame.

I would spend the money on a bigger saw. You can do both big and small work with larger saws. Try doing large work on a small saw.

 

[Randy Heinemann]

Right now I see that Rikon's 14" 10-326 Deluxe bandsaw is on sale at Rockler for $1438. It has a 1 3/4 HP motor and a resaw capacity of 13". I own a previous Rikon 14" with a 1 1/2 HP motor with 11" resaw capacity which does everything I could want it to. Set up properly it resaws perfect slices. I've done resawing up to 9" with great results. I also have ripped 8"-9" diameter logs in half for blanks with no problems. A 1/2" blade is certanly adequate for resawing and this 14" saw will perform well with a 1/2" blade.

As for larger, it's difficult to believe that you could get an 18" for even close to $1400 right now, even on sale. A larger saw will certainly give you more power, but beyond that, I'm not sure there are enough other advantages to make the current prices worth it given what you indicate you use it for. You might get a little better finish when resawing but what I get from mine is great and I doubt that you would improve on it much.

Hey, I'd be the first one to say that bigger, more powerful, is cool and I never would discourage someone from buying a big powerful cool tool. However, would I buy a larger than 14" bandsaw if I had to replace mine. I'd think about it, but probably would again buy the newest version of a 14". That size is a great all-around bandsaw and can rip, resaw, and cut curves with the right blades and setup.

As for keeping and upgrading, I'd say that you would get a much better bandsaw by buying a new 14" with bigger motor and greater resaw capacity rather thna upgrading the motor and adding a riser block and you'd get better results.

Just my opinion, but unless you are a production woodturner, furniture maker, or in some other related woodworking profession, I sincerely don't believe you need an 18" saw. Listen to the most recent FWW ShopTalk Live podcast. They talk about bandsaws in relation to a question submitted. That might give you the perspective of 2 professionals on size.

 

[Lou Jacobs]

Thanks all for this thoughtful feedback. I must admit that when I posted this morning I was leaning towards upgrading the current saw with a new motor and riser block, but as reactions have come in, I’m more inclined to research new saws, and if I’m able (both financially and in terms of space in the shop) hanging onto the old reliable Delta for narrower blades and tighter turning cuts. All thoughts have helped move me along this path.

 

[Doug Rasmussen]

I'm sure many users recognize you can saw round blanks thicker than 6" on a 14" Delta without the riser block or any mods to the saw.

If you're starting with a square blank tilt the table down 45 degrees. Hold the blank on edge and knock as much of the corners off as possible.

Say your blank is thicker than 6". Tilt the table to 45 degrees. Position your blank so the bottom of the bowl is facing down to the saw table . Saw the bottom part of the bowl round. Then put the table at 0 degrees again. Flip the blank over, face down, and finish sawing the top part of the bowl round.

I don't know what the max thickness you can do this way is. But, whittling away at the blank it can be surprising how thick you can do.

Another topic: dust from turning is a big concern. Yet I see turning demos here and on Youtube where the turner is starting with a square blank. They're turning away material that could easily be sawn off. And creating dust in the process. Sometimes I wonder if it's part of a macho process to demonstrate how fast they can remove material.

 

[Vincent Vogel]

If you have the funds I would keep the delta and put a 1/4" or 3/8" blade on it and put a 3/4" blade on the bigger saw then you have the best of both worlds.

 

[David Martin]

Me too..... I started with a 14" saw, added riser and bigger motor. Used it for many years. Ran across a deal on a used Powermatic 20", so bought that. I converted my 14" saw to metal cutting thinking I didn't need two wood bandsaws. I was wrong. I eventually bought another used 14" delta, without riser block or bigger motor. Having both large and small is the way to go if you have the room.

 

[Will Armstrong]

Right now I see that Rikon's 14" 10-326 Deluxe bandsaw is on sale at Rockler for $1438. It has a 1 3/4 HP motor and a resaw capacity of 13".

For what it's worth. I own the Rikon 14" 10-326 and am happy with the 1.75 hp power and supplied fence. The table is 21.5" w 15.75" deep, and is fine but could be a bit larger. It only resaw cuts to 12", not the stated 13".

 

[Kirk Amidon]

I have a 1968 delta 14" saw with a motor on it, and a 1942 Walker Turner 16" saw with a half horse. The WT dwarfs the delta in every meaningful way, Even with the old half HP, it will cut almost 12".

My vote is to keep the delta as is and find an older Delta 20" or comparable Powermatic. Less easily found in the wild would be saws like the Crescent 20" in either heavy or light, or a Walker Turner 16, but I"m biased.

Trying to soup up a Delta 14" saw is not worth the time nor energy - been there, done that. Simply put, it is a terrific saw when it is worked within it's design limitations, but when you exceed them it is not so great.

I love having the option of the delta for smaller curved work and can keep the green wood blade on the WT for bowl blanks.

 

[Mike Novak]

I bought a used 14 Delta about 2 years ago. It already had the riser block. The 1/2 hp motor could not handle thick wet oak blanks. I could not find any used motors so I bought a 2hp motor from harbor freight. Does not bog down or overheat now but I still wonder if i should have saved up for a newer saw with a bigger table. I will probably enlarge the table at some point.

 

[Lou Jacobs]

I’ve begun researching and shopping saws and have come across the Jet 14-SFX. It looks like a nice saw at about $1,440. I wonder if anyone has experience with this saw. I’ve got a Powermatic lathe and have had terrific customer service with the company, so buying a Jet has appeal.

 

[Mark Jundanian]

I've had one for several years. First thing to understand is that they have made at least 3 iterations of this saw, but used the same model numbers. So you have to look carefully to know what you're buying, even if it is a new machine.

I'll try to give you a fuller response when I have a bit more time (or send me a PM), but I would buy again.

 

[Randy Heinemann]

i can’t rate the saw itself but my experience with Jet service for my jointer was excellent. Great responses, and even a third party local on-site service. However that was before COVID. There is currently a Rikon sale on 14” saws. I love my Rikon and the newest Deluxe 14” has bigger motor, better guides, and 2” more resaw capacity than mine. I get great results with it.

 

[Mark Jundanian]

I have to be brief here, sorry. First I am not a heavy bandsaw user, and I've never used it to saw green wood. I do use the saw for template cutting (making and following) and to square up large blocks which is sort of like re-sawing.
I bought the saw when if first came out and so have the first iteration. It has a rectangular base, where the subsequent edition has a pyramidal base. They also changed the the design of the fence rail. There was also a change to the drive system. Recently they have come out with a third version which is notable for redesigned lower side guides and an associated redesign of the red blade guards. Sorry, I have no pictures handy (and I long ago removed the red, under table blade guards from my saw). Any redesign of the lower guides is a welcome improvement. The lowers on the first and second iterations are very difficult to adjust and have very little range. I haven't used the new system, but it looks better. At the symposium I plan to take a closer look and to ask Jet if the new guides can be retrofitted.

The only other wish I have for the saw is that it had a brake, but I really haven't missed that as much as I thought I would have.

Things I like about the saw:
The large table, especially for a 14" saw.
The large throat and tall resaw capacities.
Having two miter slots (I've used both).
Decent miter gauge and fence.
It's 120V so it was an "electrician free" installation.

If I lost my shop and was starting over this saw would be the one to which I would compare others. But YMMV.

 

[Kevin Jenness]

Keep an eye out on Craigslist and Facebook Marketplace for a decent used saw like this one Powermatic 81 or the similar steel frame Delta 20" There are plenty of old saws to be had at a fair price.

 

[Doug Rasmussen]

With all these new saws and woodworking equipment coming out it's hard to make a choice. High hp motors seem to be a big thing these days. It makes me wonder how they can run off 120V wall plugs though (amperage draw). How do you suppose they'll hold up to the test of time? This is all happening so fast none of the brands hardly have time to establish a user reputation. Ten or fifteen years ago who in their right mind would recommend anything from Ryobi?

My (purchased used) 1950 14" wood/metal Delta has only needed new urethane tires, a v-belt and new power cord in nearly 75 years. It still has the huge, original motor conservatively rated at 1/2 hp which probably would be rated at 1+ hp or more in today's rating system.

The (maybe) one good thing about all this off shore machinery is it allows individuals who in years past never would have been able to afford it. This may be even more so in metal working machinery than woodworking. Delta equipment back in the day was expensive compared to lesser brands like Craftsman, etc and was purchased based on reputation.

 

[Michael Brown]

...You might even want to consider a 3 phase motor and VFD.

I think I would leave the riser block off, and do this one thing to the 14" and get a second bandsaw for the tall cuts. A 1.5hp 3phase with the correct max RPM, and a VFD will allow you to simplify the 14" belt-wise, while still being exceptionally affordable.

 

[Lou Jacobs]

Thanks Mark for your detailed discussion of your saw. It helps. Thanks everyone else for the ideas as well. As to putting improvements into the current saw, if I wind up buying a new saw, like the Jet, there’ll be no new money put into the Delta. It works fine, as it is, but just doesn’t have the capacity of a bigger saw. I’d love to hang on to it as a second tool, but only if I can find the space.

 

[Frank F]

Lou, sounds like you and I have the same Delta saw except mine has a ¾ hp motor. I’ve been struggling with that same decision for about thirty years. I added the riser blocks, installed cool block and a fence. I made a 5 foot outfeed table to rip 8 foot rough lumber and built he circle jig suggested by Capt’n Eddie.

I’ve cut hardwood close to 12” thick using Highland Hardware’s Wood Slicer and Green wood blades. Yes, the motor is under powered, but with if you go slow and use a sharp blade, you can get the job done. I don’t use blades wider that ½ inch. My saw is not suitable for production work on thick materials IMO.

I’ve looked into a bigger motor, quick release, better guides, etc. As the cost to upgrade grew, upgrading seemed to make less sense. The biggest problem with those old saws dust collection. I considered drilling a port on the back of the cast iron, or installing a “street elbow” on the lower front door, or Louis Ittura’s design. I wasn’t comfortable with any of these. Why spend the money on upgrades if I can’t’ upgrade the dust collection.

So I’m still thinking about buying the Rikon 10-326 or a Harvey 14”.

I don’t have room to keep both. There are folks who collect old delta equipment (which is one reason I don’t want to drill dust ports in my machine). They may be interested in buying you machine.

Sorry I couldn’t make any recommendations, but know you not alone. GOOD LUCK.

 

[Tom Albrecht]

Another consideration of a new saw is that most of them come with dust collection ports, my Laguna has an upper and a lower, and they work. Of course that assumes you have dust collection in the shop.

 

[Lou Jacobs]

Frank, thanks for your commiseration! I did install a dust port in the lower door, inspired, I think by one of Robo Hippy’s videos, and it works terrifically. Yes, Tom, I have a (Jet) dust collector in the shop, and it was a great investment. I can’t imagine being without it. My earbuds recently died, so I got a new pair of Anker noise cancelling earbuds, and when they are in noise cancelling mode I don’t even hear the dust collector. As an aside, I highly recommend them. They were recommended by Wirecutter, much cheaper than Apple’s earbuds at $79, and so far they seem to have long battery life and not much downside.
- I apologize for the thread drift!

 

[Greg Joseph]

I upgraded to the Mini Max about five years ago. It is a big expense. The fence is big and heavy. I am able to accurately resaw a wide variety of wood including exotics. The dust collection is terrific.

 

[Bob Vaughan]

With the Delta 14" saws (and the Asian abbreviated copies), its important to know what you're not getting. The upper wheel carriage assembly is made from lightweight aluminum-like castings that are not really strong enough to sustain the compression required of wider blades. Check out this design detail when considering what you're going to require of your band saw.


This is the upper carriage for a Walker Turner 16" saw. Lots of cast iron and a laterally adjustable shaft .



A Powermatic Model 141 upper on the left and the aluminum Delta 14 on the right.


Another detail of the same



Delta aluminum hinge and wheel shaft. There's just not much here in terms of sustaining heavy loads.

 

[Lou Jacobs]

To close the loop, I am happy to report that I bought the saw. It arrived yesterday and I took a couple of hours to unpack, assemble and install it. So far I’m a happy camper, with 13” of capacity as opposed to 6” and a bit on my old Delta. I still have to install a Y fitting to the two dust ports, and make a blast gate. My shop is a bit more crowded (still have shop envy Rusty!), but I’ll sort it all out. Thanks again everyone for your help and feedback with this!

 

[Breck Whitworth]

I’ve been struggling with a decision on and off for the past several years, and have been reading bandsaw threads here with interest. I’ve had a dependable Delta 14” saw for the past 30 or so years. It does just about everything I want except cut blanks that are thicker than 6”. When the blade is sharp, it performs great and I’ve had no complaints. It only has a 1/2 hp motor and I’ve been debating both adding the riser block to increase cutting capacity to 12” and upgrading to a 1 or even 1 1/2 hp motor. If I go that route, I’ll probably put about $600 +/- into the saw. On the other hand, it looks like I could purchase a new larger saw for $1,400 or so. I’m sure I could recoup some of that by selling the Delta, but I’d hate to let it go. I see folks here I respect (Dave Landers recently, for one) who have sounded happy with their improved Delta machines. I suppose I’m looking for confirmation that sticking with the Delta machine is a wise route to take. For those who have modified their machines, is 1 hp sufficient, or is there a noticeable leap in performance by going to 1 1/2? Opinions?

Lou if it is possible to keep your delta and then get one for the large thick blanks it will be a great blessing to you over the years because you won't have to change blades when you need to cut various type woods. I use a 3TPI 1/2 blade on my Laguna 3 HP 18BX for the 6" thick green blanks. I gave my old 14" grizzly bandsaw to my wood turning club. and many times I've wished I still had it to cut kiln dried wood to make salad tongs sets and stuff. I realize money determines stuff but a little advice may go a long way to help or maybe not. I would say this if you sell or make a lot of bowls like I do then the larger more powerful bandsaw is an almost necessity. But if not then you can probably make do with less.

 

[Lou Jacobs]

Breck, good advice that I’ve already decided to follow. Fortunately I was able to buy the new saw without needing to sell the Delta. I understand exactly what you’re suggesting and think the idea of a narrow blade for tight turns on the smaller saw makes sense. We’ve got a grandson about to turn 9 in a few weeks. We are giving him a sort of junior multi-purpose knife for his birthday. Just a couple of hours ago my wife asked if I could give him some wood blocks to whittle. I immediately remembered the carving “kits” I had as a kid that were basically bandsawn blanks of animals, people, etc. Perfect job for the Delta saw without having to change blades on the Jet. The Delta has been good to me for decades. I’ll make room for it.