Why is it that some turners use green wood only to have to shelve it to dry then turn it again to final dimensions? Seems to me that drying the wood before turning saves from having to turn twice.
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Turning green wood
- Thread starter David A Morris
- Start date
Short answer is that it takes even more time, effort, or money to get a dry large chunk of wood without cracks. A rule of thumb is a year of drying for each inch of thickness. A 4 inch blank would take 4-5 years and could still get cracks. Roughing the bowl and drying it will be much faster. Dry wood is also harder to cut with your gouge, it's fun to see the long wet shavings flying off the tool.
I don't do much turning with green wood myself though, I barely have time to turn let alone search for and process the wood.
I don't do much turning with green wood myself though, I barely have time to turn let alone search for and process the wood.
I understand.
If you don’t mind cracked and split wood blanks to turn, you can try to dry big thick blanks. Some species, like white oak or cherry, are nearly impossible to dry when it’s 4-6” thick. So with some residual moisture in the center of the block, it’s going to move when you turn it anyway.
Hasn't been an issue so far in my long 2 months career as a turner since the material I have used up to this point has been sitting in the woods drying for who knows how long. I still have a lot of that material left so I haven't needed to address green wood. But as I use up my dry stuff I need to start planning for the future. I have a wild black cherry tree, for example, that has developed rot all up one side and has to come down. Not all the tree is bad so I'll be cutting the bad parts out. There is a lot of solid wood there and I was planning on cutting it into 4 or 5 foot lengths and let it dry in my barn. None of it is thicker than 12 inches. If the recommendation is to turn it green, then I'll have to add that to my planning. I also have a spruce covered in burls, even the roots. I will be taking that out also. And some hemlocks. I've been told that hemlock needs to be end treated when cut to minimize cracks, but that it turns real nice. Lots more to consider than when I first decided to turn!
Dave Landers
Beta Tester
That 1" per year thing really only applies to air-drying "boards" in the 1" maybe up to 4" thick range.
For thicker stuff and logs really it's way more than that - can be decades (and even then some wood in the middle may still be wet-ish).
We "twice turn" to shorten that drying time and to relieve internal stresses in the wood.
The goal is to get the wood thin enough that it has a chance to dry in a "reasonable" time. Due to wood movement, it will then be oval (or similarly un-round), so we have to also leave it thick enough that we can turn a round bowl out of that oval. That usually means turning a bowl with the wall thickness about 10% of the diameter (a 1" thick wall on a 10" bowl).
The period between first turning (or roughing, or whatever you want to call it) and second (or final) is a whole can of worms. Drying has to be controlled so that the wood has a chance to move, release internal stress, and hopefully not crack.
For some, that means speeding up the process in a kiln or with boiling or other things.
Many of us try to slow down the drying (usually in the 9-18 month range) using some combination of plastic bags, paper bags, boxes, wire shelves, and/or coatings like anchor seal, wax, white glue, latex paint, etc. The exact process is highly dependent on your environment (both external climate as well as interior heat, humidity and air movement in your shop or drying space). The most successful approach is usually to find another turner nearby and copy what they're doing - then modify it and experiment until you find what works for you.
It can be very frustrating in the beginning to do all that turning and then have to wait the better part of a year before finishing anything. But the good part is that you get a practice session for very bowl - and green/wet wood is much more fun to turn.
For thicker stuff and logs really it's way more than that - can be decades (and even then some wood in the middle may still be wet-ish).
We "twice turn" to shorten that drying time and to relieve internal stresses in the wood.
The goal is to get the wood thin enough that it has a chance to dry in a "reasonable" time. Due to wood movement, it will then be oval (or similarly un-round), so we have to also leave it thick enough that we can turn a round bowl out of that oval. That usually means turning a bowl with the wall thickness about 10% of the diameter (a 1" thick wall on a 10" bowl).
The period between first turning (or roughing, or whatever you want to call it) and second (or final) is a whole can of worms. Drying has to be controlled so that the wood has a chance to move, release internal stress, and hopefully not crack.
For some, that means speeding up the process in a kiln or with boiling or other things.
Many of us try to slow down the drying (usually in the 9-18 month range) using some combination of plastic bags, paper bags, boxes, wire shelves, and/or coatings like anchor seal, wax, white glue, latex paint, etc. The exact process is highly dependent on your environment (both external climate as well as interior heat, humidity and air movement in your shop or drying space). The most successful approach is usually to find another turner nearby and copy what they're doing - then modify it and experiment until you find what works for you.
It can be very frustrating in the beginning to do all that turning and then have to wait the better part of a year before finishing anything. But the good part is that you get a practice session for very bowl - and green/wet wood is much more fun to turn.
That's precisely what I wanted to know. Thank you. Makes a lot of sense.
Good for you. It definitely has happened in my 38 year turning career. I lost over a thousand board feet of wood by storing it in a barn/shed. A powder post beetle infestation turned the inside of the wood into powder. Please don’t use your 2 months of experience to question experienced people trying to help you. It feels very disrespectful to them.Hasn't been an issue so far in my long 2 months career as a turner since the material I have used up to this point has been sitting in the woods drying for who knows how long. I still have a lot of that material left so I haven't needed to address green wood. But as I use up my dry stuff I need to start planning for the future. I have a wild black cherry tree, for example, that has developed rot all up one side and has to come down. Not all the tree is bad so I'll be cutting the bad parts out. There is a lot of solid wood there and I was planning on cutting it into 4 or 5 foot lengths and let it dry in my barn. None of it is thicker than 12 inches. If the recommendation is to turn it green, then I'll have to add that to my planning. I also have a spruce covered in burls, even the roots. I will be taking that out also. And some hemlocks. I've been told that hemlock needs to be end treated when cut to minimize cracks, but that it turns real nice. Lots more to consider than when I first decided to turn!
If explaining myself is considered disrespect then so be it. I will not stop questioning. That's how I learn.
Mostly it really speeds up the drying time. Add to that, it is next to impossible to dry log sections or slabs. Main reason is that wood over about 2 inches thick never reaches "equilibrium" which means the same mousture content inside as on the outside, and this creates "stress" and wood relieves stress by cracking. Some kiln opperators can dry thicker slabs, but once they come out of the kiln, they can still crack because the wood will "acclimate" to local weather humidity. so again with the uneven moisture contents. Any short cuts to drying have their drawbacks. I would say like you can boil wood, 1 hour per inch of thickness, and allow to come back to ambient temperatures, then seal and let come to final state. It still takes a while, and you have to go through the boiling process. Not worth it to me, which is why I once turn my bowls.
robo hippy
robo hippy
Gotcha! Good info. I guess that's why I watch your YouTube videos. Thank you.
As others mentioned, the solid blanks can take a LONG time to dry (depending) and are sometimes difficult to dry without cracking.
Some user a coring tool to cut multiple bowl-shaped cores from one log. Advantages and disadvantages to this.
MANY people like to turn bowls from wet wood, some turn almost nothing else. I personally turn very few bowls.
like almost everything in woodturning, much depends on what you like to turn and make and how you work.
Wouldn't life be boring if we all did the same thing!
Successful drying is as much art as a science. To keep the finished piece stable and prevent it from warping, the moisture content USUALLY needs to match the environment. Some people have horrible experience with drying. Some try to dry too fast. Some hate to turn dry wood.
I personally like to turn dry wood from solid blanks. I posted a link to my video on this forum (Logs to Blanks) that shows the method I use with the shop bandsaw. Warning: the video is long (made for a demo).
I have some big blanks that have taken almost a decade to dry. 100s of smaller blanks. I have very few failures (cracks) in even large blanks. Learning about wood structure and how it moves as it drys helps. R. Bruce Hoadley's book "Understanding Wood" is an excellent place to start.
After almost 20 years of cutting and drying blanks I have a good supply of dry wood to choose from.
Fortunately I have the space and somehow the patience for this. A small sample in the photos below.
(Click on thumbnail for larger view)
I track the moisture content by weighing typical pieces.
JKJ