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Two different sizes of Wolvering gouge-holder, really different?

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When I bought my Wolverine sharpening set-up, either I didn't know they had two sizes of gouge holders, or there was only one at the time. Looking at their web site, it appears I have the holder for larger gouges (1/2"-1.5"). Most of my gouges are 3/8" and I have a couple of spindle gouges that are smaller. Should I be concerned enough to buy the smaller holder? Perhaps the 3/8" tools are fine with the larger holder, but I might need the other holder for the 1/4"?? What do you think?
 
Jamie......

There are two sizes of platforms and two styles of vari-grind jigs.....are you speaking of either of these?

If not, could you give us a link to what your asking about?

ko
 
Part # 2480 and 3074

Jamie,
I have the one for the 1/8 to 5/8 size. My concern in using the larger jig for something like a 1/4 gouge, is that it would not hold it securely.
I would describe the holes in the jig that the gouge rests in as a circle with a v at the bottom of that circle, if the gouge rests comfortably in the V’s,
and the bearing that spans the flute of the gouge that you use to clamp the gouge reaches and actually clamps the gouge securely, well, I would use it.
What gives me pause is that Oneway gives a size range for each jig. However, if you clamp any gouge in the jig and it does not lock in securely,
then stop and find out why. When the gouge (flute) get too short, the bearing starts to clamp down on the slope at the back of the flute.
This leads to a gouge that can come unclamped during sharpening which leads to some unpleasant surprises.
Of course, if you are asking us whether we think you should buy another tool…well, you know what that answer is…
cc
 
When I bought my Wolverine sharpening set-up, either I didn't know they had two sizes of gouge holders, or there was only one at the time. Looking at their web site, it appears I have the holder for larger gouges (1/2"-1.5"). Most of my gouges are 3/8" and I have a couple of spindle gouges that are smaller. Should I be concerned enough to buy the smaller holder? Perhaps the 3/8" tools are fine with the larger holder, but I might need the other holder for the 1/4"?? What do you think?

I just checked Oneway's site and, indeed, they have added a new jig for larger gouges. Since I do not have one of the larger ones that you have, I can only speculate, but I would guess that you could modify the larger unit to work with smaller gouges by taking a small round file (say 1/4 " diameter) and filing a channel in the bottom of the present openings of the jig so that smaller gouges will captured solidly when you tighten the holding screw. Great accuracy is not required here.

Dennis
 
Interesting! I was at the Oneway site yesterday and they didn't have then new large size then. The original will work with spindle gouges as ¼" and bowl gouges as large as ¾". The V notch in the bottom works like a machinist's V block and will automatically center any cylinder.

172849d1436845268t-opinions-tool-set-please-img_0737a.jpg
 
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Actually, there are three now: the original, the Varigrind 2, and the new jumbo sized one. Right now, their site is a total mess and a lot of links are broken and finding things is a pain. This has been going on for a long time. I don't understand why they are not doing their new site development offline rather than the kludge that they currently have.
 
Jamie,
[snip]
Of course, if you are asking us whether we think you should buy another tool…well, you know what that answer is…
cc

Hah, hah, I guessed right for sure! I didn't give good detail in my original post. It is the original Varigrind with the adjustable leg. What makes me think it might be the bigger size is that it has the brass knob and plastic pad to hold the gouge in, rather than the spring steel shown in the picture of the smaller holder. I'll be extra careful with the smaller gouges, and let you know if I do, indeed, need a new tool! (Though perhaps someone might remember when they started offering 2 sizes)
 
It was invisible

Interesting! I was at the Oneway site yesterday and they didn't have then new large size then. The original will work with spindle gouges as ¼" and bowl gouges as large as ¾". The V notch in the bottom works like a machinist's V block and will automatically center any cylinder.

View attachment 8531

The larger one must have just been invisible when you visited the site. I saw it 2 or 3 days ago.:) IIRC, the smaller one has that piece of spring steel that holds the gouge down. I wonder if sometimes the other style (the plastic in your picture) might not get enough bearing surface, or perhaps move the gouge a bit off horizontal. I'll just keep a close eye on it when grinding 1/4" spindle gouges.
 
Tonight, the original one is invisible. Have you noticed that they show a picture of a chuck for three different tool categories?

When I bought my Varigrind 12 years ago it had the spring steel piece. Several years later they improved the design with the big brass knob and pivoting steel disk on the bottom that has a tough plastic cover. I don't know what the material is, but don't worry about it breaking. Even if it did, it is just a cushion over the disk. They offered an upgrade kit to replace the klutzy spring steel so I took advantage of the opportunity and I like the new version much better. One way is bad about not updating their documentation or photos so that is probably why they are still showing the old style Varigrind ... Unless they went back to it.:rolleyes: Anyway mine will handle gouges up to 3/4" U.S. size (5/8" UK size). I have used it to sharpen 1/4" and 3/8" spindle gouges up to two 3/4" gouges (Thompson and Henry Taylor Kryo). I can't imagine a 1 1/8" diameter gouge.
 
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Use for larger diameter holder

I got one to sharpen my continental gouge. Both from Packard. The only difference I can see is the larger one is wider (larger diam.). It DOES have the same self-centering 'V'. I LOVE the continental, BTW...
 
Actually, there are three now: the original, the Varigrind 2, and the new jumbo sized one. Right now, their site is a total mess and a lot of links are broken and finding things is a pain. This has been going on for a long time. I don't understand why they are not doing their new site development offline rather than the kludge that they currently have.

I agree that Oneway’s website has been a mess for a couple/several years and with the latest new look, it’s worse than ever! They need to pay a professional web designer to put together a simple and informative site and only upload it when it’s ready. As it stands now there are so many clicks to get to something to only find the barest of descriptions - if one exists at all. The KISS principle should be a site’s backbone.

I have wondered if Oneway is struggling with the increased competition from Robust and others. They don’t seem to be innovating at nearly the pace they were 5-10 years ago. Maybe the website reflects a lack of direction and clarity of the company.

Just my observations as a very satisfied owner of many Oneway products.
 
The larger one must have just been invisible when you visited the site. I saw it 2 or 3 days ago.:) IIRC, the smaller one has that piece of spring steel that holds the gouge down. I wonder if sometimes the other style (the plastic in your picture) might not get enough bearing surface, or perhaps move the gouge a bit off horizontal. I'll just keep a close eye on it when grinding 1/4" spindle gouges.

I think others may have mentioned these things, but that never stops me from opening my mouth!

I believe there are several issues here:
1) Oneway improved the original version that had the spring steel hold-down with the bearing/brass knob hold-down. This happened maybe 5 years ago-ish. It is no longer available unless you find one in old-stock.
2) Their website has a photo of the original but it should be a photo of the improved version – AND the link is broken. The catalog # is the same as the original (2480).

If you order the 2480 it will be the one you want.
 
Hah, hah, I guessed right for sure! I didn't give good detail in my original post. It is the original Varigrind with the adjustable leg. What makes me think it might be the bigger size is that it has the brass knob and plastic pad to hold the gouge in, rather than the spring steel shown in the picture of the smaller holder. I'll be extra careful with the smaller gouges, and let you know if I do, indeed, need a new tool! (Though perhaps someone might remember when they started offering 2 sizes)

You have the "not as old" original varigrind. (I have the original varigrind with the spring steel thing).

You should be able to put in up to 5/8" diameter (shank diameter) bowl and spindle gouges. (Don't use the jig for a spindle roughing gouge).

I know sharpening is a bit like politics and religion (two topics never to be discussed at the dinner table), but I'd like to weigh in a bit. I'm no expert, but some folks in our club (NM Woodturners, website at nmwoodturners.org) have developed a couple of jigs to get repeatability in the grind when using the varigrind jig. These jigs can easily be cut out on a bandsaw on masonite, fiberboard, or thin plywood. They help you set the spacing from the pocket in the arm to the wheel. I recommend setting up something so you have the following repeatable distances:

(1) Stick out distance of the tool from the front of the Varigrind (our club experts recommend two different stick outs, 1.75 for spindle and 2.0 for bowl) I made a stick out gage with scraps and glue; a hand drill and spade or Forstner bit and tape would also work.
(2) Leg angle setting of the Varigrind (our club experts recommend two different angles, one for bowl, one for spindle)--I sharpied two marks on my Varigrind.
(3) Distance from pocket where leg sits, to front of wheel. This is where the masonite or plywood board with a carefully cut width is greatly helpful.

When you do that, all your regrinds will replicate the angles of the initial grind. In my opinion, whether your spindle gouge is 35 deg, 37 deg, etc. is not as important as being able to regrind that same angle. Ditto the bowl gouge--whether it's 55 deg., 53 deg., etc. Just be sure that when you resharpen, you resharpen to the same angle. (I think that the presenters for our club's fixture set up to generate a 60 degree grind on the bowl gouge and 40 or 45 on the spindle, but I don't have my protractor and tools with me).
 
I think others may have mentioned these things, but that never stops me from opening my mouth!

I believe there are several issues here:
1) Oneway improved the original version that had the spring steel hold-down with the bearing/brass knob hold-down. This happened maybe 5 years ago-ish. It is no longer available unless you find one in old-stock.
2) Their website has a photo of the original but it should be a photo of the improved version – AND the link is broken. The catalog # is the same as the original (2480).

If you order the 2480 it will be the one you want.

I think Owen has the answer. It's a combination of things which includes the web page not being up to date. I bought my Wolverine about 1990, and it originally had the spring steel piece, but I upgraded with a retro-fit kit about a dozen years ago. It was a great improvement, and they don't sell the spring steel model anymore.

I know that it will fit 1/4" shaft gouges, up to 5/8".....but, not sure about 3/4".....I don't think I have one that big, but if I do, it's not something I use. I know I have one really big gouge, but never use it. If anyone wants to know for sure, I'll dig it out and give a definite answer to the question.

ko
 

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I think Owen has the answer. It's a combination of things which includes the web page not being up to date. I bought my Wolverine about 1990, and it originally had the spring steel piece, but I upgraded with a retro-fit kit about a dozen years ago. It was a great improvement, and they don't sell the spring steel model anymore.

I know that it will fit 1/4" shaft gouges, up to 5/8".....but, not sure about 3/4".....I don't think I have one that big, but if I do, it's not something I use. I know I have one really big gouge, but never use it. If anyone wants to know for sure, I'll dig it out and give a definite answer to the question.

ko

As I mentioned above, I have two 3/4" gouges and they both will just barely fit. Owen is correct that the date was about 5 years ago, not 12 when they updated the tool design with the brass knob. I bought my original Varigrind about 12 years ago and then updated it about 5 years ago when the kit became available.
 
Looks like the Wolverine 2 jig restrains motion of the gouge . Look at the technical details on the link to Rockler.

http://www.rockler.com/oneway-wolve...um=cpc&utm_campaign=(roi)+product+listing+ads

What you say is correct, but what amazes me is that their description on the Oneway website states:

The Oneway® Vari-Grind™ 2 Jig offers the same flexibility as the original Vari-Grind™ Jig while improving safety and ease of use....

The only part of their description that isn't a lie is that it is safer, but that is just barely telling the truth. Not sharpening your tools on a grinder is even safer, but so what. If you want a jig that actually does what you want, get the original design.
 
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As I mentioned above, I have two 3/4" gouges and they both will just barely fit. Owen is correct that the date was about 5 years ago, not 12 when they updated the tool design with the brass knob. I bought my original Varigrind about 12 years ago and then updated it about 5 years ago when the kit became available.

Bill.....my retro fit kit was available prior to the brass knob version....it has a plastic knob.

ko
 
Bill.....my retro fit kit was available prior to the brass knob version....it has a plastic knob.

ko

There was at least one aftermarket upgrade available before Oneway came out with their version.

I bought a plastic knob screw with swivel tip upgrade kit for my Ellsworth jig to replace the thumbscrew that came on the original version. Then the next version of the Ellsworth jig had a similar improved knob.
 
As I mentioned above, I have two 3/4" gouges and they both will just barely fit. Owen is correct that the date was about 5 years ago, not 12 when they updated the tool design with the brass knob. I bought my original Varigrind about 12 years ago and then updated it about 5 years ago when the kit became available.

Bil, my Varigrind is about 12 years old and it fits my single 3/4†gouge too. I haven’t upgraded the hold-down - still have the spring steel. Are there clear advantages to the upgrade?
 
Bil, my Varigrind is about 12 years old and it fits my single 3/4” gouge too. I haven’t upgraded the hold-down - still have the spring steel. Are there clear advantages to the upgrade?

Well, I just don't like the idea of dragging that piece of steel along a freshly sharpened edge as I remove the tool from the jig. Admittedly, that is what I do when I use a burnishing tool, but at least it is on purpose. :rolleyes:
 
I have the wolverine system on one grinder but only use the tracks and the platform on a daily basis.
one side of the grinder set up for an Ellsworth jig and a platform on the other side.
The Geiger vertical solution puts the pivot point where I want it.

On my other grinder I have a wooden rest for the Ellsworth pivot point and a platform.

I sharpen bowl gouges with the Ellsworth jig everything else I sharpen on the platform side either using the platform to position the tool or as support for my hand.
I almost never use the Varigrind or the wolverine pocket.

They work well but I'm just more comfortable with the platform and the Ellsworth jig.

Al
 
I have the older style Varigrind. I have noted the discussion of dragging the fresh edge on the spring. I have not had that problem, by being easy with removal and changing the angle at removal. My question is have you actually seen a difference ? Did you see the spring dulling your edges? Or was this change made by the company due to comments on the subject?
 
I have the older style Varigrind. I have noted the discussion of dragging the fresh edge on the spring. I have not had that problem, by being easy with removal and changing the angle at removal. My question is have you actually seen a difference ? Did you see the spring dulling your edges? Or was this change made by the company due to comments on the subject?

The upgrade kit is a little more refined with the bearing, and after using both the spring steel and the upgrade, I don't think there is really any big advantage one has over the other. I've never had a problem with removal of the sharpened gouge with the spring steel. It will only touch the sharpened edge on the very tip of the wing, anyway.

I checked my one big gouge, and it is 3/4" diameter.....just barely fits. My most used gouges are 1/2", with an occasional 5/8" and 1/4".....so, accepting a 3/4" gouge isn't very meaningful to me.

ko
 
I have the older style Varigrind. I have noted the discussion of dragging the fresh edge on the spring. I have not had that problem, by being easy with removal and changing the angle at removal. My question is have you actually seen a difference ? Did you see the spring dulling your edges? Or was this change made by the company due to comments on the subject?

Looks are everything when you have a product competing against numerous others. The original design looked cheap the new one looks elegant. Does the new design work better? Absolutely! The spring can sometimes cause the tool position to creep as the screw was tightened down against the spring.
 
Looks are everything when you have a product competing against numerous others. The original design looked cheap the new one looks elegant. Does the new design work better? Absolutely! The spring can sometimes cause the tool position to creep as the screw was tightened down against the spring.

Thanks Bill. This is the answer I needed and the upgrade is only about$15.
 
Small gouges might bend?

When sharpening my tiniest spindle gouge today (seems smaller than 1/4") and loading it into the Varigrind, I wondered whether it's possible to bend a really small gouge using the newer brass knob arrangement. It's possible to really crank that puppy down! Will resist that impulse. Small gouge sharpened fine. May have to perfect free-hand grinding soon, the 3/8" spindle gouge is worn enough that using the Varigrind holder won't work soon -- end of flute is too close, shape changes.:(
 
When sharpening my tiniest spindle gouge today (seems smaller than 1/4") and loading it into the Varigrind, I wondered whether it's possible to bend a really small gouge using the newer brass knob arrangement. It's possible to really crank that puppy down! Will resist that impulse. Small gouge sharpened fine. May have to perfect free-hand grinding soon, the 3/8" spindle gouge is worn enough that using the Varigrind holder won't work soon -- end of flute is too close, shape changes.:(

I would say the answer is no you couldn't. High Speed Steel is really hard. It isn't as hard as a file, but if you think how hard a chainsaw file is, I think that you would find that it is almost as hard to bend. No doubt an 800 pound gorilla could bend it, but I think that the threads would strip out long before the tool would bend. Now, if you heat it to cherry red with a MAPP gas torch, I think that you might be able to bend it. You only need to use gently hand pressure to tighten the knob.

Home made tools can bend. I bent a homemade hook tool before when I got a severe catch. The tool was made from O-1 tool steel where I had only hardened to the cutter end.
 
As Bill said, "You only need to use gently hand pressure to tighten the knob."
I have a Doug Thompson 1/4 inch, and a 3/16 Sorby and yes, it is easy to over
tighten and bend them. Maybe deflect is a better word as they spring back.
When I sharpen these, I turn the grinder on, let it get up to speed then turn it
off let it coast down to a slower speed and then, sharpen. Super light touch, still
enough momentum in the wheels to get the job done. The 1/4 inch is not so bad
but the first time I touched the 3/16 to the wheel I lost an 8th of an inch in the blink
of an eye...So now I use the "turn-on, turn-off" technique and my slow speed grinder is even slower...
cc
 
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Hook's Law defines the point where a material goes from elastic deformation (like a spring it returns to original shape when the external force is removed) to plastic deformation (this is the point where the material does not return to its original shape when the external force is removed). I could be wrong, but I think that even the 3/16" tool would withstand a lot of elastic deformation before reaching plastic deformation. I wouldn't want to ruin a tool trying to find that point, but I think it would be obvious when the knob has been tightened enough.
 
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