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Vicmarc VL240 and Oneway 20" banjo......workable?

Odie

Odie

Panning for Montana gold, with Betsy, the mule!
TOTW Team
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Just playing around with ideas here.....

The Oneway banjo is for a 20" lathe, and the swing on the VL240 is a little more than 19 1/4".....(19.291")

I like the more secure holding power of the oneway banjo over the direct grub screw arrangement of the Vicmarc lathe.

@hockenbery, I think you're familiar with the Oneway banjos, and do you think it would be possible to shave about 3/8" off the top of the banjo?.....that is.....assuming there is a problem with using my existing 1" post tool rests on a change over from my Woodfast to the Vicmarc using the Oneway banjo.

Would there be any other problems I am not taking account for, with this combination?

Can anyone tell me for sure what all the differences between the "heavy duty" and regular stands available for the VL 240? (I understand about the enclosed base, and the stop bar.....neither of which I'm much interested in.)

I am assuming the VL240 lathe for both offerings is exactly the same......right? The difference is only in the stand.

Links:

Banjo:

20" Banjo For 20" Swing Lathes

20" Banjo For 20" Swing Lathes
oneway.ca oneway.ca

Standard VL240:

Vicmarc VL240 ASM EVS 2HP | Branches to Bowls

The VL240 Lathes have a swivel head feature which allows for the headstock to turn its normal straight position out to 90 degrees. There are four individual pin-lock positions at increments of 22.5 degrees which aid in turner comfort when turning inside vessels and bowls. It has an accurate...
branchestobowls.com branchestobowls.com

HD VL240:

VL240 ASM EVS HD | Branches to Bowls

The VL240 ASM Heavy Duty Lathe has a swivel head feature which allows for the headstock to turn its normal straight position out to 90 degrees. There are four individual pin-lock positions at increments of 0, 30, 60, 90 degrees which aid in turner comfort when turning inside vessels and bowls...
branchestobowls.com branchestobowls.com


Any other comments, or considerations for the above lathe and/or banjo would be greatly appreciated. :)

-o-

VL240%20ASM%20EVS%202.0HP.png
20__Banjo_for_20_519633cecca89-500x500.png
 
We use a Oneway 20 ” banjo our guild General 260. Works well except for times when you would like to have the banjo/toolrest combination well below center for some bowl gouge shear scrape cuts on bowl exterior or similar. That is when we use the 12 ” General tool rest. Holding power is no different than when on a Oneway.
 
Notes....

The Oneway banjo is 7 1/2" high, and my Robust banjo is 5" high. Assuming the swing differences between the lathes is 3", then the top of the Oneway banjo would only need to be 6 1/2" high to accommodate the differences. This means my existing tool rests will actually insert into the Oneway banjo a little lower than they do with the Robust tool rest. This could be a good thing, because it looks like a few of my 1" posts might be a little too short to be usable without extending the post heights of a few tool rests.

-o-
 
There is another difference in the stands, which I assume explains the "heavy duty" designation: the base of the heavy duty version is 5mm plate; the base of the non-heavy duty is 4mm plate. There is a weight difference of 49 kgs (108 lbs) between the two [non-HD is 250 kgs, HD is 299 kgs]. I assume that some of the difference will be the thicker plate, some, will be the enclosing parts. [The Vicmarc.com website has a separate spec sheet for the non-HD version.) The non-HD model, at 550 lbs, weighs plenty, but I have the HD version and have never used the other, so I can't say whether the extra 108 lbs would add any meaningful stability.

As for the Oneway banjo, I can say only this: that I have never bottomed-out on a tool post, I don't think I have ever been close, so if the Oneway banjo is a bit higher at the tool post hole, I doubt it would matter. I also love the Vicmarc banjo, and I have a collar for the few 1" posts that I have, so that is an option too.
 
Gord Cameron said:
I also love the Vicmarc banjo, and I have a collar for the few 1" posts that I have, so that is an option too.
Click to expand...

The thing that bothers me about the direct grub screw design of the Vicmarc banjo other than Vicmarc didn't bother to make some of the banjos with a 1" tool rest hole in the first place, is it's exactly the same grub screw arrangement as my original Woodfast banjo.....and, I had trouble with it securing the tool rests tight enough to prevent slipping during use. I resorted to a "cheater bar" to tighten it enough to overcome this, and one of the main reasons I purchased the replacement Robust tool rest in the first place.

Also, the Oneway banjo is not a "dog-leg" design, which both the original Woodfast and the Robust are of this configuration. I do have some reservations about that, because that dog-leg is great for extending around to the opposite side of the bowl to turn the exterior of a faceplate mounted bowl. This could be problematic......?????? (If the VL240 rotates the other way....counter clockwise from looking at the top, this Oneway banjo might be ok with the straight design. Anyone know if the VL240 does rotate both ways?

edit: Yes, I think the extra weight would be useful......but, weight closer to the spindle is better than the added weight at the base.

-o-
 
I can't remember exactly where but I've seen a Oneway banjo on a 240. Don't know if there were any alterations to it. However, my 240 and others that were built at the same time have a different swing than the published data. Mine is 494mm/19.44". Enzo over at Vermec questioned me on it but later told me he had another inquiry from a local Aussie customer that confirmed the difference from publish data.
 
odie said:
The thing that bothers me about the direct grub screw design of the Vicmarc banjo other than Vicmarc didn't bother to make some of the banjos with a 1" tool rest hole in the first place, is it's exactly the same grub screw arrangement as my original Woodfast banjo.....and, I had trouble with it securing the tool rests tight enough to prevent slipping during use. I resorted to a "cheater bar" to tighten it enough to overcome this, and one of the main reasons I purchased the replacement Robust tool rest in the first place.

Also, the Oneway banjo is not a "dog-leg" design, which both the original Woodfast and the Robust are of this configuration. I do have some reservations about that, because that dog-leg is great for extending around to the opposite side of the bowl to turn the exterior of a faceplate mounted bowl. This could be problematic......?????? (If the VL240 rotates the other way....counter clockwise from looking at the top, this Oneway banjo might be ok with the straight design. Anyone know if the VL240 does rotate both ways?

edit: Yes, I think the extra weight would be useful......but, weight closer to the spindle is better than the added weight at the base.

-o-
Click to expand...
I have certainly never had to tighten the Vicmarc banjo more than lightly snug to have my toolrest stay firmly in place, but my success on that front might be in part because the Vicmarc banjo has a 30mm (1-3/16") tool post hole. That extra girth might make a difference in the banjo's holding power with its basic grub screw. I have never had it slip with 1" tool posts + 30mm collar (it is the kind of collar where the height adjustment grub screw goes through a hole in the collar and bears directly on the post) but the vast majority of my experience is with 30mm posts, so I can't say much about that; the Oneway grip on a 1" post might be better than the Vicmarc with a collar (if you want to keep your 1" post toolrests).
 
I see the PM 3520c lathe has a pinch style dog leg banjo.....anyone know if that banjo can be purchased separately?

Still would like to know if the VL240 headstock will swivel in a counter clockwise direction......one of you VL240 owners ought to know this.

-o-
 
Last edited:
odie said:
think you're familiar with the Oneway banjos, and do you think it would be possible to shave about 3/8" off the top o
Click to expand...
You already know the one way specs. 5.5”” high for the 16” swing banjo, 7.5” high for the 20” banjo
Oneway - could tell you about shortening it. They might even do it if it is feasible.

Regarding the powermatic banjo versus the ONEWAY banjo

For my turning style the ONEWAY is way ahead. The new powermatic banjo locks really well but lack ease of use for my turning style.

ONEWAY - The tool rest lock handle can be set around the clock face. I have mine locking around 6. It lies against the bajo never in the way of the tool handle. Lock handle is hinged so it swings away to use.

The powermatic handle is easy to switch from side to side when it interferes with the tool handle and easy to rotate the handle around the bolt head - PIT operations when spoiled by the ONEWAY. Powermatic tool post locking handle use is often complicated by the tool rest being over it.

The wide powermatic banjo base is a little harder to reposition one handed than the ONEWAY

The off set tool post makes it difficult to use a small toolrest for reverse turning with the tailstock - in demos I always have to crank the tailstock ram way out to provide clearance between the bajo and the tailstock base.

I do a lot of demos on powermatic lathes - in many demos I do reverse turning or drop the tool handle low for pull cuts and shear scrapes. I often have to make adjustments to accommodate the locking handle or provide clearance with the tailstock.
IMG_0180.png. IMG_0181.jpeg
 
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Odie, the height of my Oneway 20" banjo is 7 3/8". It could be cut down to about 7 1/16", which represents the top of the boss on which the clamp collar is mounted. I would bet that Oneway would cut one down for you.

You may be overthinking this- the Vicmarc banjo may be fine in practice, plus it appears to be the dogleg design you prefer. I understand your concern about the plain grub screw setup. That's one reason why I had the Oneway on my General 260 and it was a great improvement. Have you had a chance to turn on the Vicmarc and test out the banjo? Given that you have found a particular setup that suits you and considering the cost of a new lathe I would think it wise to find someone who would let you put one though its paces, even if it meant a serious road trip.
 
odie said:
The thing that bothers me about the direct grub screw design of the Vicmarc banjo other than Vicmarc didn't bother to make some of the banjos with a 1" tool rest hole in the first place
Click to expand...
Yes, this lack of optionality is frustrating, and it is a bit ironic that Oneway (at last check) will now only put an M33 spindle thread on its big lathes but does a 1" tool post, whereas Vicmarc will do a 1-1/4" spindle thread but only a 30mm tool post. Go figure.
 
odie said:
Still would like to know if the VL240 headstock will swivel in a counter clockwise direction...
Click to expand...
As above the VL240 HS rotates from 0* to 90*. It does not rotate backwards (behind the bed). On the plus side, with a 19+ inch swing over bed there is plenty of room to slide the banjo under a 12" bowl, maybe even 14". Does anyone know the swing over  banjo?

The design of the rotation mechanism is very stout, more like a tank turret than two pressure plates. There is a tight fitting locking pin that fixes the HS position at 0, 30, 60 & 90 degrees. (There is also a smallish set screw, but I don't know if that is intended to hold the HS in an intermediate position--e.g. 20*). With your awareness of vibration issues, I think this design will appeal to you.
 
While nothing matches an individual's personal experience, one testament to the Vicmarc banjo is that Glenn Lucas has turned about a zillion big bowls on Vicmarcs and if you have ever watched him turn, you will see that he regularly and swiftly repositions his banjo to the optimum position for his cuts, even when he is ploughing through rough turning. He is quite particular about his banjo and toolrest positions.

Most of his instructional videos are behind his paywall, but here is a link to a YouTube clip with him roughing out a big blank:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jalnX5W7VkE&ab_channel=GlennLucas
 
I never considered pivoting the 240 headstock to the other side. Looks like you may be able to get 5 or so degrees, but not more. I have been turning some bowls getting ready for the one show I do any more, and have been growling at the tool rest lock down. It might be because of my heavy use of scrapers, but it does seem to vibrate loose more than my Robust banjos do. The wedges hold more with less pressure, no doubt.

robo hippy
 
odie said:
The thing that bothers me about the direct grub screw design of the Vicmarc banjo other than Vicmarc didn't bother to make some of the banjos with a 1" tool rest hole in the first place, is it's exactly the same grub screw arrangement as my original Woodfast banjo.....and, I had trouble with it securing the tool rests tight enough to prevent slipping during use. I resorted to a "cheater bar" to tighten it enough to overcome this, and one of the main reasons I purchased the replacement Robust tool rest in the first place.
Click to expand...
My tool rest slipped in my General lathe also. The grub screw pitch was 1/2"-13. I drilled out the hole and re-tapped it to 5/8"-18. The finer pitch allowed me to tighten the tool rest with the same force as before but the tool rest no longer slipped.

The down side of the mod was I could not find a quick adjust handle with the 5/8"-18 pitch. I ended up making my own which works well.

I think the best answer is to buy a Oneway banjo.
 
One issue that comes to my mind is that the Oneway banjo may not be long enough to effectively be used with the headstock pivoted out at 30 degrees. Also, I know it would not work with your lathe where it is currently, but one could access the backside of a piece if they swung the headstock out 90 degrees and stood on the back side of the lathe. Still, I think you may be overthinking it a bit and not have the problems you are anticipating with the stock banjo.
 
Kevin Jesequel said:
One issue that comes to my mind is that the Oneway banjo may not be long enough to effectively be used with the headstock pivoted out at 30 degrees. Also, I know it would not work with your lathe where it is currently, but one could access the backside of a piece if they swung the headstock out 90 degrees and stood on the back side of the lathe. Still, I think you may be overthinking it a bit and not have the problems you are anticipating with the stock banjo.
Click to expand...
My Oneway 20" banjo measures 12 7/8" from center of ways to center of toolrest and 2 1/2" from ways to top of arm casting. It should slide under a 14 1/2" bowl on the Vicmarc 240.

The Oneway doesn't use opposing wedges, rather the screw pushes a slug that is shaped to match the 1" toolpost. In any case, it locks down quite firmly.
 
Bed gap is 2 3/8 inches. My banjo is 19 inches over all length. From bed to top of banjo is 6 3/16. Their measurements are probably all metric, but this is what my tape measure told me.

robo hippy
 
Jim McLain said:
Oldie - my banjo is 19 inches overall but 17 inches to the center on the tool post. 2 7/16 between bedways.

center of ways to center of tool post is 14 inches
Click to expand...

robo hippy said:
Bed gap is 2 3/8 inches. My banjo is 19 inches over all length. From bed to top of banjo is 6 3/16. Their measurements are probably all metric, but this is what my tape measure told me.

robo hippy
Click to expand...

Thank you for your responses Robo and Jim...... :)

(Jim....how long have you had your VL240?.....I know Robo has had his for a few years now.)

With these measurements, I've pretty much concluded the Oneway banjo will not work on this lathe for my purposes. Besides, I've really been spoiled by the dogleg feature and pinch style capture of the tool rest post on my Robust banjo. Robo.....your post sent me over the top with your statement that the grub screw on the original VL240 banjo didn't hold so well for you.

If anyone is aware of a dogleg style banjo for a `19" to 20" swing lathe with a 1" post hole, and has pinch capture of the tool post...... long enough to adapt to this Vicmarc lathe.....let me know your suggestions. (Don't know, but that just might be too much to ask for.)

I might be better off to wait for some manufacturer to get inspired to offer a great swivel head lathe for the USA market that has all the features I'm looking for. The VL240 is 650 lbs, and weight is a very major consideration for me.....

-o-
 
Odie, doesn't the Powermatic 3520 banjo match your list?

In any case, it seems like a test drive of the Vicmarc is in order to see if the stock banjo would work for you.
 
Kevin Jenness said:
Odie, doesn't the Powermatic 3520 banjo match your list?
Click to expand...
It might.....I'll need to get the length and height to know more about that.
(If anyone has these dimensions for the 3520ABorC banjo, I'd appreciate it.....thanks)
Kevin Jenness said:
In any case, it seems like a test drive of the Vicmarc is in order to see if the stock banjo would work for you.
Click to expand...
Yes, I can agree with that..... :)

-o-
 
odie said:
Thank you for your responses Robo and Jim...... :)

(Jim....how long have you had your VL240?.....I know Robo has had his for a few years now.)

With these measurements, I've pretty much concluded the Oneway banjo will not work on this lathe for my purposes. Besides, I've really been spoiled by the dogleg feature and pinch style capture of the tool rest post on my Robust banjo. Robo.....your post sent me over the top with your statement that the grub screw on the original VL240 banjo didn't hold so well for you.

If anyone is aware of a dogleg style banjo for a `19" to 20" swing lathe with a 1" post hole, and has pinch capture of the tool post...... long enough to adapt to this Vicmarc lathe.....let me know your suggestions. (Don't know, but that just might be too much to ask for.)

I might be better off to wait for some manufacturer to get inspired to offer a great swivel head lathe for the USA market that has all the features I'm looking for. The VL240 is 650 lbs, and weight is a very major consideration for me.....

-o-
Click to expand...
Odie - I special ordered my 240 through Roger at Craft Supplies and have had it for about two years now. Great lathe and I have not had any issues with tool rest slippage. I got the HD version no swing away.
 
odie said:
I see the PM 3520c lathe has a pinch style dog leg banjo.....anyone know if that banjo can be purchased separately?

Still would like to know if the VL240 headstock will swivel in a counter clockwise direction......one of you VL240 owners ought to know this.

-o-
Click to expand...
I have a a Oneway 20" banjo on my Taiwanomatic 3520b and it is a great improvement
 
I can push and scoot my American Beauty around the shop. This is the extended bed version, and with sand bags. Can't do that with the Vicmark. I can move the tailstock end around, but not the headstock end. I do think there is a mobility kit for them, but don't think Vicmark makes them.

Odie, I don't know if the 16 inch Oneway banjo would work or not. For me, I would look to make the tall one shorter. No clue as to how that would work with the taller banjo and their pressure plate thing that goes up against the tool rest post.

robo hippy
 
Odie, one of our club members has a fairly new Vicmarc lathe in his shop in Manhattan and I bet he would let you try it out. He's a prolific bowl/platter turner and has given it plenty of use in the year or two that he's had it. Though the seller of the lathe you are considering might be able to steer you to a closer user for a test drive.
 
Odie, I checked out my banjo on my Robust Liberty, a 16 inch lathe that they don't make any more. That banjo is 5 inches high, so probably too short for the 240. No clue about the Laguna, which does make a 18 inch lathe. They do have a slot cut in the banjo for a pinch mechanism of sorts. I think I used to have a lathe that did that, but it didn't work as well as the wedges.

robo hippy
 
Dean Center said:
Odie, one of our club members has a fairly new Vicmarc lathe in his shop in Manhattan and I bet he would let you try it out. He's a prolific bowl/platter turner and has given it plenty of use in the year or two that he's had it. Though the seller of the lathe you are considering might be able to steer you to a closer user for a test drive.
Click to expand...

Hi Dean.....thanks.

I have no doubt I'll like the VL240 lathe, with the exception of the banjo. At this point, I'm no closer to pulling the trigger on a new lathe than I was.

I keep asking myself what advantages I could have.....and the truth is.....the one and only thing that would make any difference to me, is that swivel headstock.....and, how it would be convenient for turning my extreme undercut rims. I don't see any other lathe function for turning my bowls that would be any different than it is with my fixed headstock lathe. Even at that, it isn't as important to me as it was for a long time. That is, ever since I made up some hip rests, and purchased a weightlifters belt, these things have nearly completely eliminated the back issues I was having with bending over my lathe.

For those who make bowls on fixed headstock lathes.....hip rest.

When I work on the details of the rim top, and interiors of bowls on my fixed headstock Woodfast lathe, it makes it much easier on your back to solidly brace your hip. I've been using hip rests for about ten years now, and after redesigning previous versions, I finally came up with two versions...
www.aawforum.org www.aawforum.org
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Weider-Contoured-Weight-Belt-for-Squat-Deadlift-and-Powerlifting-Support-S-M/595461553?

I also ask myself if a new lathe will make me a better turner....and, the answer to that is.....a resounding NO.

Yes, I'm a very stubborn person.....but, the end result is the only thing that really matters to me! I have learned (the hard way) long ago, that the key to success in woodturning bowls, isn't the money you invest.....but, the effort you devote to learning the principles of tool handling, getting a fine sharp edge, eliminating vibration.....and, applying all that with your own unique "spiritual" connection! :)

-o-
 
Last edited:
Dave Landers said:
This is true. Same goes for gouges, chucks, etc etc.
The more relevant question (assuming cost is not a big issue) may be ... Will it give you more enjoyment / happiness / fun ?
Click to expand...

This is very true, Dave.....

For me, the expense is more of an issue than it is for some of the other turners on this forum.....but, if I thought there was enough of an advantage to be had by buying the VL240.....I could swing it. :)

-o-
 
odie said:
also ask myself if a new lathe will make me a better turner....and, the answer to that is.....a resounding NO
Click to expand...

That is generally true. It may make you a happier turner, able to do larger pieces and probably more productive.

When I switched from a 20” woodfast to a ONEWAY 2436 I could do things at higher speeds shortening some turning times and improving the surface a bit on some pieces. Saved a little time not having to tap the tool post lock with the tool handle.

Less vibration at all speeds -> Smoother surface

You won’t be a better turner but you will likely get better results due to less vibration
 
odie said:
This is very true, Dave.....

For me, the expense is more of an issue than it is for some of the other turners on this forum.....but, if I thought there was enough of an advantage to be had by buying the VL240.....I could swing it. :)

-o-
Click to expand...
If you keep selling 7" bowls for $200, it won't be long before you can afford it. It's hard to make useful suggestions as you have such a unique process, but I wonder if you could get the same advantage by turning off the end or on a dedicated bowl lathe, that you could with a rotating headstock.
 
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