Video editing

[Raif Harik]

This came up in a different thread but was a bit off topic so I decided to make a separate thread. I'll start off by quoting a message from @John K Jordan.

I've used several over the years (when I did 3d modeling, animation and video for work) but retired and quit about 10 years ago. Mostly used SpeedRazor and a little Adobe Premier. (I despise Premier!)

A few years ago when I decided to start making videos again, this time with drones, horses, and wood, my son, the video pro, recommended DaVinci Resolve by Blackmagic Design. Wow, what powerful software! The free version does a lot but just a little $$$ bumps you up to Resolve Studio, the full pro version. He said professionals all over are using Resolve. Unlike some, there is no ongoing subscription fee.

I don't care about most of the pro features but the paid version does use multiple GPUs for incredible rendering speed.

I set up a studio with a multi camera switcher, good digital recorder, teleprompter and all, edit on a desktop with dual monitors.

I've never tried asking the Chat for help but the manuals, tutorials, and training materials all I needed..

JKJ

 

[Raif Harik]

Hi, so the software I've been using is called kdenlive. I use Ubuntu, and I tried Davinci resolve but could not get it to work on my system. It looked like it would be pretty sweet and it does utilize GPU more than kdenlive. But my machine just has the crappy onboard graphics and I suspect Davinci is expecting at least some kind of dedicated card.
That said, while kdenlive is pretty nice and seems to have a ton of features (way more than I'll ever use) the render is pretty brutal. It run single threaded and given no dedicated GPU it's pretty untenable.
I edited my first video and that was pretty fun and easy. It was 5min long at the end. I think I was rendering to 4k but it took 4 freaking hours and at the end the video gives an error. I.e. you can watch most of it but then it throws. Maybe if I just render 1080p it would be tolerable but even that would logically be 2x which is still 2 hours for 5 minutes.
So my wife's computer died. This presents a great opportunity for me. I'll give her my laptop and I built a system which is really sweet, with only onboard graphics but everything else nice I7 8700, 32gb ram, 500gb SSD nvde (or whatever it's called), for $300 shipped. Then I got a pretty nice video card, rtx 3060 12gb for $300 shipped. With that setup I should be able to operate respectfully. This sys is more powerful than my laptop which I recall cost $2k new. So I feel guilty for buying a new system but not that guilty
I should be able to run Davinci when that comes in.

 

[John K Jordan]

I use Ubuntu, and I tried Davinci resolve but could not get it to work on my system.

I think he uses Resolve with Ubuntu, maybe there's a trick. He installed Win10 plus Ubuntu on my new Lenovo laptop along with Resolve but I have tried it yet. But it sounds like you don't need to run it on the old laptop now!

My old Dell laptop died a few months ago. He set me up with my new Lenovo laptop (P16 Gen 2). It has two GPUs, 64gig, 5TB of SSD, multi-core processor, 16" 1920x1200 screen, backlit keyboard with real keys. (But it wasn't what I'd call inexpensive!)

In case you're interested, this was my first project on Resolve, made for a turning club zoom demo during the Covid pandemic. Not short (over 45 minutes), but I had a lot to cover! (Someday I'll make some needed edits and shorten it a bit.) I can't remember the rendering time but the computer is a Dell OptiPlex 7080 with 8 core processor, two GPUs (one is Nvidia GTX 1050 Ti). I also don't remember the rendered resolution but it wasn't important.

Maybe just watch the first 3 or 4 minutes! (Or better, skip this one and look at the chopped version below!)

View: https://youtu.be/4Rbdas-jtD0


Oh, here's a much chopped 4.5 minute version I made for another club demo later. (I hauled a smaller bandsaw to that club and did all the safety stuff at the meeting.)

View: https://youtu.be/RTJU-MEGRBc


JKJ

 

[Paul Paukstelis]

Hi, so the software I've been using is called kdenlive. I use Ubuntu.

I have used both OpenShot and Shotcut. I much prefer Shotcut.

 

[Raif Harik]

Nice. 64gb ram and 5tb ssd are very generous. I was watching my ram (my laptop has 32gb) as my system was editing and rendering and it didn't seem to use it that heavily. That said if you are using windows ( bleachhh ) then you can use all the ram you can get. Maybe I under did the ssd a bit. I guess I don't really know how much space the videos will take up. That said, now that it's a tower, rather than a laptop I can add new components for very cheap.
I've seen your first video before and it is quite good. I"ll watch the second here shortly.
We can get into camera setup and camera choice as well. I swear, I have so much fun and get so involved setting up to perform a task. Once it's time to actually perform the task, sometimes I'm freakin over it . I don't think that will be the case with filming but I am loving building the jigs to hold the camera and getting the software and hardware setup.
I'm finding that filming while I turn is a very different experience. For one thing, the dialog in my head is like, professional, newscaster quality dialog. Really you should see how great the dialog in my head is . Out loud? ... kind of crap lol. Anyway I have to get out to the shop before the day disappears.

 

[Raif Harik]

I have used both OpenShot and Shotcut. I much prefer Shotcut.

Dang two more options. I was kind of hoping Davinci was the go to software and I wouldn't have to try different packages. But now I have to try shotcut at least. Have you used Davinci or kdenlive for comparison?

 

[Paul Paukstelis]

Dang two more options. I was kind of hoping Davinci was the go to software and I wouldn't have to try different packages. But now I have to try shotcut at least. Have you used Davinci or kdenlive for comparison?

I have not. I don't do much video editing. I had used OpenShot for many years, but continually found limitations or weird bugs. Shotcut seems quite solid.

 

[John K Jordan]

...That said if you are using windows ( bleachhh ) then you can use all the ram you can get.

I run Win10 and keep an eye or ram usage. I've rarely seen less than 45gb free out of 64 on this laptop. I'll have to open a project in Resolve on the desktop (with 32gb) and see how Win10 there manages the memory.

Maybe I under did the ssd a bit. I guess I don't really know how much space the videos will take up. That said, now that it's a tower, rather than a laptop I can add new components for very cheap.

I have a pile of external HDs and SSDs I connect by USB. They seem pretty fast. For some I bought SSD modules and put them in cheap cases from Amazon that have the USB circuitry built in. Maybe that would be an option for video storage. ??

As a holdover to when I worked for a living, I still make at LEAST two backup copies of every thing I'd hate to lose as I work, so the external drives are great for backup and to transfer copies between desktop and laptop, AND dump everything on a NAS with three 12TB drives as RAID and a 4th hot swap drive. The shop, house, and NAS are all on the my network but I usualy just walk down the hill with some drives. Haven't had a failure yet, knock on Bubinga. (Actually while working, my backup rule was to guarantee I could never lose more that 15 minutes of work in the event of a failure. I kept a separate tower on my little home network (worked at home) loaded with HD drices for backup. AND backed up to optical disks. Things got convoluted at times with 4 computers sharing rendering tasks (for animations).

Also use Macrium Reflect to do automatic backups of everything. Paranoid.

This was my basement Dungeon - the commute to work was the 15 seconds it took to walk down the stairs. Two computers there in this pic, two more elsewhere in the room. This was when dual processor machines where state of the art. A single animation frame might take 10 minutes to render so having even a small "render farm" was a huge time-saver.

I visited a fellow 3D guy in California and he had a room with about 40 rack-mounted computers, just for rendering! We were a "worldwide" community but many of us met up at the annual SIGGRAPH convention in LA, New Orleans, Florida, whereever. I retired and quit this work almost 20 years ago but still communicate some - actually headed out next week to visit one of the guys in Colorado.

I'm finding that filming while I turn is a very different experience. For one thing, the dialog in my head is like, professional, newscaster quality dialog. Really you should see how great the dialog in my head is . Out loud? ... kind of crap lol. Anyway I have to get out to the shop before the day disappears.

I think the narrator and director in the head who hide when the record light comes on are the reason many turning videos are shot first, edited, then narrated with voice-over later. One thing I like about Resolve are the audio features. I put a nice mic stand on my editing desk. My problem is being too "stilted" when I've prepared a narration script. However, I am SO bad at remembering and saying what I planned that when cue cards taped to the camera tripod didn't work I bought a teleprompter with software for an iPad with foot switch control. Shoot right through the text! That helped me a lot. When creating videos for work we generally hired a voice professional.

My son, the video and photo pro, speced and acquired all the equipment and when II picked it up I spent a day with him for connection and operating lessons. Without looking in the cabinets I couldn't even tell you what brand the cameras are! I do know they are all identical which made things easier.

JKJ

 

[Darryn Achall]

Where I work at, we teach video editing using Resolve. It is good software. We also have Blackmagic cameras, switchers, audio equipment, etc. I don't need professional equipment for home use. Have been using Corel software since the 1990's and am familiar with all their stuff. I shoot video with my phone, or a camera, then edit with Corel Video Studio at home. It is reasonably easy to use and gets the job done.

 

[Raif Harik]

Wow, that's some post. Lots to unpack. starting with 45 gig of ram! You mentioned you had dual boot, you should try ubuntu and see how that fairs. Maybe (most likely) you are doing much more advanced stuff than me.

I can't believe it ever took 10 min for a single frame. I mean, hell, at that rate you could just draw it! I think that would make me crazy. This is actually pretty funny. Makes me think about how my son marvels at the fact that we used to have to keep our phone attached to the wall.

Re persistence. I guess if it was taking that long to render you'd rather saw off a toe then loose work. Still all those backups must have been costly.

I have just discovered that I absolutely under did it with the hd. I just shot about an hour of 4k and it came out to about 200gb. So now I'm going to have to have to order a 2TB pcie gen3 (my sys only has gen3 I guess) ssd. Extra hundred bucks. Could be worse. That would be working storage, then for completed work, I'd probably get something much less expensive. Or even use S3 depending on how big the files are and how long it takes.

I'm shooting with a gopro 12, as I figure it should be able to survive the shop.

 

[Wyatt Holm]

I have good equipment, but nothing crazy. Too many people think you need all the most expensive gear, you don't. You need good technique. Most modern videos are dreadfully made. It is not the resolution that suffers, it's the technique and content. You can buy the latest 12k camera, but if your content is boring, out of focus, poor lighting, and the action isn't even in frame, you have worse quality than a professionally made VHS. I use 1080p camcorders, or DSLR for filming, as well as a lavaliier mic connected to a recorder. For editing I use a desktop I setup for about $1000. 1 tb ssd 32 gig of ram, and a NAS for backup. I edit in Adobe premiere.

 

[John K Jordan]

I can't believe it ever took 10 min for a single frame. I mean, hell, at that rate you could just draw it! I think that would make me crazy. This is actually pretty funny. Makes me think about how my son marvels at the fact that we used to have to keep our phone attached to the wall.

Things sure change. I started on 3D graphics in the late 70s when I had to write my own software in assembly code. Then things took a major step forward in the mid to late 80s and really kicked off in the early 90s with the release of 3DStudio for dos, then later 3DSMax that ran under windows. (All this was spearheaded by Gary Yost and his small team, got a big kick when they signed on with AutoDesk) About that time I gave up software development at the Oak Ridge National Lab (too hard on my fingers and hands) and used what I'd learned about 3D to make a position for myself doing 3D modeling, rendering, animation, and video until I finally retired in 2006. In that time I did 100s of projects from quick and simple to complex - worked on my own schedule at home and nobody cared what I did as long as I kept the funding coming in! What a life!

Computers were still pretty slow in the 90s, nothing like whats available now on a simple laptop. I understand about the kids and corded phones - tell them about a party line where you listed for the your number of rings before picking up!

I had all this computer stuff and a COLOR monitor and tried to get my kids interested. One said, but dad, we grew up with this stuff, it's all NORMAL to us. (He's an architect now and the older one did graphics and video for Michelin for years before going on his own.)

Some of the complex renderings with lights, shadows, transparency, reflections, etc did take a long time to render in even in the late 90s. I did a lot of scientific/technical things tor groups to explain their work and bring in funding, including quite a bit of architectural renderings, sometimes taking video of real things from helicopters to let me dissolve seamlessly into renderings to explain the inside structure and planned modifications, or show what new buildings would look like from the ground, or how some newly invented technology worked. Things like these were fun, much was related to energy and nuclear science (nothing classified here!) - a whole lot of interviewing, measuring, photographing, digging through paperwork and drawings:



Made videos and renderings to sell projects to congress, industry, lots of PR.
At this groundbreaking I got to meet TN senators and vice president Gore. Even wore a tie (let's keep that quiet!!)
This was for a multi-billion dollar science facility that's now used by nearly 1000 researchers each year.



All good clean fun! The only problem was when I retired was finding a replacement - there were modelers and animators EVERYWHERE but not with the background to figure out and tell the scientists and engineering groups what they REALLY needed instead of what they thought they needed!

One 3D graphics friend worked on the underwater sequence in Star Wars, another on the Stewart Little movie - it was fun to see their names on the credits at the theater! Working like this was hard - work, work, work, deadline, hurry, then get done and be on the street looking for more work. Look at movie credits sometime and try to count the people working on modeling, textures, rendering, lighting, character animation...

I never worked on movies but did work closely with a ballistics expert to make models and such for analysis and gruesome murder trials - anyone interested in the blueprints to OJ Simpson's estate? Nicole's condo? The police report with Ron Goldman's stab wounds? Ack. Some of our OJ work was used on CBS news. This stuff was not as much fun as the science work.

I have just discovered that I absolutely under did it with the hd. I just shot about an hour of 4k and it came out to about 200gb. So now I'm going to have to have to order a 2TB pcie gen3 (my sys only has gen3 I guess) ssd. Extra hundred bucks.

Fortunately for us, such things are SO (relatively) inexpensive now. (but our data "needs" now are so much higher)

Looking back, I can barely comprehend the evolution. After first using punched paper tape from an $800 second-hand teletype for data storage (10 bits/sec), my first floppy disk drive was a screaming monster that would store 1.2 mb on an 8" disk! First HD drive was a whopping 10 mb (not gb), a bargain at only $1000! I think I was the only one on the block who had one. After I really got going, all my video renderings went to a $16K BetacamSP tape deck, provided by a client. The software would back the tape up, start it moving, and lay down a single rendered frame to the end of the video. Repeat. Mess up, start over...

JKJ

 

[John K Jordan]

Most modern videos are dreadfully made. It is not the resolution that suffers, it's the technique and content. You can buy the latest 12k camera, but if your content is boring, out of focus, poor lighting, and the action isn't even in frame, you have worse quality than a professionally made VHS

It was very similar when desktop publishing and printers became available to the masses. Suddenly everyone thought they were an instant pro writer, editor, publisher. You wouldn't believe how bad some things were. (kind of like the Internet today!)

 

[Raif Harik]

LOL those are some heavy creds! You were born at the right time to get into that stuff. Or perhaps not, maybe 10 years later would be perfect. You were pretty cutting edge and were quite successful but I don't believe that was an easy position to obtain. Round the turn of the century companies were scooping up all the homeless people and putting them in chairs to do tech support. That was when I started my cabinet business. I've always been 180 degrees out of rhythm. Now I'm a software engineer, and it's a pretty secure industry to be in. Every industry needs my industry and there are tons of jobs. But I still wish I had started much earlier and done some of the more exciting stuff. I was building a AD&D character generator in basic on an apple 2e in like 1980 non stop goto line statements . I had the makings of a computer guy. But then I discovered punk rock and disenfranchisement and I went down a different path.

From your description of the work you were doing, at least at one time, it sounds like you were one of those guys who would plan heists, mapping out the target building, creating 3d rendering of the interiors and where all the security equipment was. I'm sure that was only part of the time though.

You are probably one of the last generations from which people will retire. I love to work, I just hate companies and ... well, people, no, just company politics. I would love to be able to retire and spend my time turning, or programming for fun!

 

[John K Jordan]

You are probably one of the last generations from which people will retire. I love to work, I just hate companies and ... well, people, no, just company politics. I would love to be able to retire and spend my time turning, or programming for fun!

My wife and I were so fortunate - me at the Lab answering only to myself and "clients", while she WAS the management of a gov facility. The power above has blesses us beyond our wildest imaginations. Now I get to play on the farm and in the shop with nice pieces of wood!

From your description of the work you were doing, at least at one time, it sounds like you were one of those guys who would plan heists, mapping out the target building, creating 3d rendering of the interiors and where all the security equipment was. I'm sure that was only part of the time though.

Well, shucks, I didn't think of that. I worked to serve, enable advanced research, secure funding, solve interesting problems, and insure safe environment. Anything else I know will be buried with me.

I do have one funny story - I was asked to create a video to explain details of plans for an impossibly difficult project in a special building. To do it "right" (according to me) I had to first map out all relevant parts of the building, make drawings/sketches, and take photos to work from. A security guard escorted me and said I could measure and photograph anything except for that and that, pointing. Then he left! If ever I was up to no good, that would have been the time. But my mother said "Always do your told".

JKJ

 

[Raif Harik]

I do have one funny story - I was asked to create a video to explain details of plans for an impossibly difficult project in a special building. To do it "right" (according to me) I had to first map out all relevant parts of the building, make drawings/sketches, and take photos to work from. A security guard escorted me and said I could measure and photograph anything except for that and that, pointing. Then he left! If ever I was up to no good, that would have been the time. But my mother said "Always do your told".

JKJ

Ah yes, humanity. Always the weakest link.